No Power at 3000 RPM to 4500 or so (After Wastegate Fix and Flash Update)

ETS Michael · 06-08-2010, 09:46 PM

Hey Guys,

I'm wondering if anyone else has had power loss problems after a wastegate rattle fix (replaced wastegates) then updated the flash for the new wastegates (per invoice). The car now feels very sluggish between 3,000RPM and 4,500RPM - you can feel the car pull then you hit a flat spot from 3k to 4.5k then you have power again, it definitely feels like a lean spot or something holding the car back. I'm about to take it back to the dealership in hope for a new update =\

The car is a bone stock 07 335i - 6 speed manual transmission car. When I turn off the DTC it seems to feel worse. I'm sure a flash (JB3, Vishnu) would fix this problem with a little tuning, but I want the car to run correctly when we start producing parts.

Any help is appreciated or comments.

Thanks!

Michael

****** ISSUE SOLVED *****

Alright, So I just got the car back after a month of dealer service work. It looks like replacing the turbochargers fixed the problem! Below is a copy of the invoice that I received with the work performed. Hopefully no one has this problem in the future, but just in case! My car was built in 2006 and the turbochargers they just installed seem to be a bit louder then the previous turbochargers, the car also pulls harder, but I don't think they were working properly before.

Last Invoice

Previous Invoice

ETS Michael · 06-09-2010, 10:02 AM

Scheduling another appointment with the dealer, they can't do any worse I guess

mechanixhorseman · 06-09-2010, 12:50 PM

They can't just replace the wastegates. Did they replace the actuator arm or the entire turbo(s)?

Tiago@VRSF · 06-09-2010, 12:53 PM

Durring my last visit I mentioned rattling wastegates and rather than them replacing the wastegates or the turbos they just flashed the car. The problem with the new flash is it keeps the wastegates fully open at low rpms to avoid the rattling then closes them at higher rpm causing turbo lag.

ETS Michael · 06-09-2010, 01:02 PM

I will scan the invoice when I get home. They put in a revised wastegate actuator arm i'm pretty sure. The turbos are the same. The problem seems fuel related though, i'm going to drop it off on Monday and let them handle it.

Trying to figure out the problem it's definitely from 2500 rpm to 4000 rpm - The car was just re flashed last month.

mechanixhorseman · 06-09-2010, 01:09 PM

Bummer. I get the rattle for about the first minute and a half after starting up and it goes away afterwards. I'm sure it will get worse and I'm under warranty until October, but I know the dealer is just going to flash some turbo lag into my ECU and the problem will still be there, only difference is my car will perform less.

I'm hoping I can put it off until I can afford a turbo upgrade or rebuild.

cstmx_ryder · 06-09-2010, 03:30 PM

So there's no other issues aside from the non-responsiveness between 2.5k-4k?

Can't say that I've experienced that, but for sure take it back to the dealership and have them try to fix it, since I'm assuming it's still under warranty?

FWIW, my wastegate rattles as well, but I'm hesitant to have them fix it and then reflash the car, I'm still on my OG DME software.......LOL

Were the wastegates REALLY loud prior to them getting 'fixed'?

ETS Michael · 06-10-2010, 03:46 PM

yup, the wastegates were very loud, they would rattle on decel and sounded like the exhaust was falling apart. I wish I wouldn't have flashed it now though.

Thanks,

Michael

dicostal · 06-10-2010, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETS Michael

Hey Guys,

I'm wondering if anyone else has had power loss problems after a wastegate rattle fix (replaced wastegates) then updated the flash for the new wastegates (per invoice). The car now feels very sluggish between 3,000RPM and 4,500RPM - you can feel the car pull then you hit a flat spot from 3k to 4.5k then you have power again, it definitely feels like a lean spot or something holding the car back. I'm about to take it back to the dealership in hope for a new update =\

The car is a bone stock 07 335i - 6 speed manual transmission car. When I turn off the DTC it seems to feel worse. I'm sure a flash (JB3, Vishnu) would fix this problem with a little tuning, but I want the car to run correctly when we start producing parts.

Any help is appreciated or comments.

Thanks!

Michael

This is the same issue I had with my car, the only difference I am picking up my car tonight.

They told me they:
Reprogrammed
Replaced the waste gates
and also an intake pipe.

Anyway when I pick up the car tonight I shall update you. I hope I do not have a lag :/
That would suck.

dicostal · 06-10-2010, 11:24 PM

I got the car back, and it feels very good. I think the ECU probably needs to still adjust. Also my car is a Manual, not sure if it matters.

This is what they did.

Software Recalibration
Program as per sib 11 13 07
Charge Air Induction + 3 Flange nuts

Replaced Waste Gates
Replaced both Actuators + 3 Gasket Rings

Hope this help!! Good luck!!

pentaxis · 06-11-2010, 12:56 AM

I recently had a software update from pre 29.x to the current software. I noticed a similar thing. Faster tip in for throttle response, but lag until about 3-3.5k rpm then it would rip.

I did some research and found out that cars with build dates prior to 9/07 are eligible for a "wastegate retrofit" fix where the tech restores original operation of the wastegate system. I went in with the TSB and had it done, and it definitely did the trick. Boost builds because the wastegates aren't held open any longer at cruise and idle.

Here is the TSB: http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B111307g.htm

The specific part is about halfway down the page.

AltecBX · 06-11-2010, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pentaxis

I recently had a software update from pre 29.x to the current software. I noticed a similar thing. Faster tip in for throttle response, but lag until about 3-3.5k rpm then it would rip.

I did some research and found out that cars with build dates prior to 9/07 are eligible for a "wastegate retrofit" fix where the tech restores original operation of the wastegate system. I went in with the TSB and had it done, and it definitely did the trick. Boost builds because the wastegates aren't held open any longer at cruise and idle.

Here is the TSB: http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B111307g.htm

The specific part is about halfway down the page.

Very useful information for people with '07 and early '08.

cstmx_ryder · 06-11-2010, 12:47 PM

Thanks for the link Pentaxis.......

So my car was built in 9/07, which is right on the timeline when they would take a little different approach.......So what would they consider my car, before 9/07 or after?

My wastegate rattles and can be heard when idling or at a stop light. Sounds almost like a TD car....LOL. But it's not EXTREMELY loud, but loud enough so people can hear it if they listened for a few seconds.

Do you think that falls under the description for taking it in?

I'm not experiencing turbo lag, or at least I don't think I am..........

ETS Michael · 06-15-2010, 11:27 AM

Mines at the dealer right now, we see if this little revision helps

I will keep you updated. I also have the 6-speed manual.

ETS Michael · 06-15-2010, 11:29 AM

The 328 x-drive is not near as fun to drive, I will tell you that much.

dicostal · 06-15-2010, 11:31 AM

Whaaaaa i am experiencing the same problem now!!! :/

i was supposed to get the GIAC flash this Thursday. Do i need to update the software befre I got for the flash?

what do you guys think?

Thanks

ArmyBimmerDude · 06-15-2010, 11:39 AM

I have the same issue. I got a software update and everything seemed great, the exhaust sounds a lot louder with more bass. Then the next day and ever subsequent time I start the car, the rattle is there for about 2 minutes, then no rattle.

ETS Michael · 06-15-2010, 12:04 PM

Kuni BMW drove the vehicle and said since no code is displayed and I have to drive it tell one pops up? You can feel the hesitation?! But, they can't do anything tell a code pops up? I don't think driving a vehicle tell it breaks is the best solution.

Anyone else have this problem with the dealer?

Tiago@VRSF · 06-15-2010, 12:07 PM

Yeah I've had that happen before. They don't like spending money replacing parts unless they have a code for what parts to replace

ETS Michael · 06-15-2010, 12:23 PM

That's awesome.... Gotta love updates. I guess it's time to order a piggy back setup. JB3 and the Vishnu can both control the wastegates or no? I'm pretty sure the hesitation is from the wastegate staying open tell about 3k. I need to start researching. I noticed a few others use the CP-E?

dicostal · 06-15-2010, 01:10 PM

That sounds like BS to me. did you show them this document?
http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B111307g.htm

this is a know issue and they should update your car with the latest software. if they do not I would call BMW north america and complain.

Tiago@VRSF · 06-15-2010, 01:12 PM

Procede has more control of the DME in comparison to JB3.

06-08-2010, 09:46 PM	#1
ETS Michael Major 80 Rep 1,155 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (4)	No Power at 3000 RPM to 4500 or so (After Wastegate Fix and Flash Update) Hey Guys, I'm wondering if anyone else has had power loss problems after a wastegate rattle fix (replaced wastegates) then updated the flash for the new wastegates (per invoice). The car now feels very sluggish between 3,000RPM and 4,500RPM - you can feel the car pull then you hit a flat spot from 3k to 4.5k then you have power again, it definitely feels like a lean spot or something holding the car back. I'm about to take it back to the dealership in hope for a new update =\ The car is a bone stock 07 335i - 6 speed manual transmission car. When I turn off the DTC it seems to feel worse. I'm sure a flash (JB3, Vishnu) would fix this problem with a little tuning, but I want the car to run correctly when we start producing parts. Any help is appreciated or comments. Thanks! Michael **** ISSUE SOLVED *** Alright, So I just got the car back after a month of dealer service work. It looks like replacing the turbochargers fixed the problem! Below is a copy of the invoice that I received with the work performed. Hopefully no one has this problem in the future, but just in case! My car was built in 2006 and the turbochargers they just installed seem to be a bit louder then the previous turbochargers, the car also pulls harder, but I don't think they were working properly before. Last Invoice Previous Invoice Last edited by ETS Michael; 07-16-2010 at 11:36 PM..
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06-09-2010, 10:02 AM	#2
ETS Michael Major 80 Rep 1,155 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (4)	Scheduling another appointment with the dealer, they can't do any worse I guess
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06-09-2010, 12:50 PM	#3
mechanixhorseman Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 261 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Coupe Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: North County San Diego, CA iTrader: (0)	They can't just replace the wastegates. Did they replace the actuator arm or the entire turbo(s)? __________________ ///2007 335i Coupe Space Metal Gray///Sports///Premium///6AT///Piano Black Forgestar 18" F14 8.5" front 10" rear///JB3///Cooling Mist CMGS Methanol Kit///aFe DCI///Stett Chargepipe///Tial BOV///BSH Oil Catch Can
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06-09-2010, 12:53 PM	#4
Tiago@VRSF 2108 Rep 43,350 Posts Drives: F90 M5 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Doral, FL iTrader: (99) Garage List 2014 F30 328xi [0.00] 2015 F82 BMW M4 [0.00] 2013 Ducati 1199 Pa ... [0.00] 2008 BMW 335i [0.00]	Durring my last visit I mentioned rattling wastegates and rather than them replacing the wastegates or the turbos they just flashed the car. The problem with the new flash is it keeps the wastegates fully open at low rpms to avoid the rattling then closes them at higher rpm causing turbo lag.
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06-09-2010, 01:02 PM	#5
ETS Michael Major 80 Rep 1,155 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (4)	I will scan the invoice when I get home. They put in a revised wastegate actuator arm i'm pretty sure. The turbos are the same. The problem seems fuel related though, i'm going to drop it off on Monday and let them handle it. Trying to figure out the problem it's definitely from 2500 rpm to 4000 rpm - The car was just re flashed last month.
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06-09-2010, 01:09 PM	#6
mechanixhorseman Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 261 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Coupe Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: North County San Diego, CA iTrader: (0)	Bummer. I get the rattle for about the first minute and a half after starting up and it goes away afterwards. I'm sure it will get worse and I'm under warranty until October, but I know the dealer is just going to flash some turbo lag into my ECU and the problem will still be there, only difference is my car will perform less. I'm hoping I can put it off until I can afford a turbo upgrade or rebuild. __________________ ///2007 335i Coupe Space Metal Gray///Sports///Premium///6AT///Piano Black Forgestar 18" F14 8.5" front 10" rear///JB3///Cooling Mist CMGS Methanol Kit///aFe DCI///Stett Chargepipe///Tial BOV///BSH Oil Catch Can
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06-09-2010, 03:30 PM	#7
cstmx_ryder Colonel 171 Rep 2,875 Posts Drives: A metal box with a roundel Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (2)	So there's no other issues aside from the non-responsiveness between 2.5k-4k? Can't say that I've experienced that, but for sure take it back to the dealership and have them try to fix it, since I'm assuming it's still under warranty? FWIW, my wastegate rattles as well, but I'm hesitant to have them fix it and then reflash the car, I'm still on my OG DME software.......LOL Were the wastegates REALLY loud prior to them getting 'fixed'? __________________ '08 AW E90 335i PROcede V5 \| BMS DCI \| RR DPs \| ETS FMIC \| FORGE DVs \| Stett CP \| Vanguard \| PSS10
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06-10-2010, 03:46 PM	#8
ETS Michael Major 80 Rep 1,155 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (4)	yup, the wastegates were very loud, they would rattle on decel and sounded like the exhaust was falling apart. I wish I wouldn't have flashed it now though. Thanks, Michael
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06-10-2010, 11:24 PM	#10
dicostal Lieutenant 55 Rep 495 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Italian in CT - USA iTrader: (0)	I got the car back, and it feels very good. I think the ECU probably needs to still adjust. Also my car is a Manual, not sure if it matters. This is what they did. Software Recalibration Program as per sib 11 13 07 Charge Air Induction + 3 Flange nuts Replaced Waste Gates Replaced both Actuators + 3 Gasket Rings Hope this help!! Good luck!!
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06-11-2010, 12:56 AM	#11
pentaxis Captain 31 Rep 685 Posts Drives: Space Grey E92 335i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (3)	I recently had a software update from pre 29.x to the current software. I noticed a similar thing. Faster tip in for throttle response, but lag until about 3-3.5k rpm then it would rip. I did some research and found out that cars with build dates prior to 9/07 are eligible for a "wastegate retrofit" fix where the tech restores original operation of the wastegate system. I went in with the TSB and had it done, and it definitely did the trick. Boost builds because the wastegates aren't held open any longer at cruise and idle. Here is the TSB: http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B111307g.htm The specific part is about halfway down the page.
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06-11-2010, 12:47 PM	#13
cstmx_ryder Colonel 171 Rep 2,875 Posts Drives: A metal box with a roundel Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (2)	Thanks for the link Pentaxis....... So my car was built in 9/07, which is right on the timeline when they would take a little different approach.......So what would they consider my car, before 9/07 or after? My wastegate rattles and can be heard when idling or at a stop light. Sounds almost like a TD car....LOL. But it's not EXTREMELY loud, but loud enough so people can hear it if they listened for a few seconds. Do you think that falls under the description for taking it in? I'm not experiencing turbo lag, or at least I don't think I am.......... __________________ '08 AW E90 335i PROcede V5 \| BMS DCI \| RR DPs \| ETS FMIC \| FORGE DVs \| Stett CP \| Vanguard \| PSS10
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06-15-2010, 11:27 AM	#14
ETS Michael Major 80 Rep 1,155 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (4)	Mines at the dealer right now, we see if this little revision helps I will keep you updated. I also have the 6-speed manual.
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06-15-2010, 11:29 AM	#15
ETS Michael Major 80 Rep 1,155 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (4)	The 328 x-drive is not near as fun to drive, I will tell you that much.
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06-15-2010, 11:31 AM	#16
dicostal Lieutenant 55 Rep 495 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Italian in CT - USA iTrader: (0)	Whaaaaa i am experiencing the same problem now!!! :/ i was supposed to get the GIAC flash this Thursday. Do i need to update the software befre I got for the flash? what do you guys think? Thanks
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06-15-2010, 11:39 AM	#17
ArmyBimmerDude Major General 156 Rep 5,497 Posts Drives: Lola Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Georgia iTrader: (3) Garage List 02/2007 E92 335i [0.00]	I have the same issue. I got a software update and everything seemed great, the exhaust sounds a lot louder with more bass. Then the next day and ever subsequent time I start the car, the rattle is there for about 2 minutes, then no rattle. __________________ 2007 E92 Montego Blue 335i
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06-15-2010, 12:04 PM	#18
ETS Michael Major 80 Rep 1,155 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (4)	Kuni BMW drove the vehicle and said since no code is displayed and I have to drive it tell one pops up? You can feel the hesitation?! But, they can't do anything tell a code pops up? I don't think driving a vehicle tell it breaks is the best solution. Anyone else have this problem with the dealer?
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06-15-2010, 12:07 PM	#19
Tiago@VRSF 2108 Rep 43,350 Posts Drives: F90 M5 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Doral, FL iTrader: (99) Garage List 2014 F30 328xi [0.00] 2015 F82 BMW M4 [0.00] 2013 Ducati 1199 Pa ... [0.00] 2008 BMW 335i [0.00]	Yeah I've had that happen before. They don't like spending money replacing parts unless they have a code for what parts to replace
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06-15-2010, 12:23 PM	#20
ETS Michael Major 80 Rep 1,155 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (4)	That's awesome.... Gotta love updates. I guess it's time to order a piggy back setup. JB3 and the Vishnu can both control the wastegates or no? I'm pretty sure the hesitation is from the wastegate staying open tell about 3k. I need to start researching. I noticed a few others use the CP-E?
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06-15-2010, 01:10 PM	#21
dicostal Lieutenant 55 Rep 495 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Italian in CT - USA iTrader: (0)	That sounds like BS to me. did you show them this document? http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B111307g.htm this is a know issue and they should update your car with the latest software. if they do not I would call BMW north america and complain.
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06-15-2010, 01:12 PM	#22
Tiago@VRSF 2108 Rep 43,350 Posts Drives: F90 M5 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Doral, FL iTrader: (99) Garage List 2014 F30 328xi [0.00] 2015 F82 BMW M4 [0.00] 2013 Ducati 1199 Pa ... [0.00] 2008 BMW 335i [0.00]	Procede has more control of the DME in comparison to JB3.
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