[triggz]

Would air scoops do anything positive if you have a DCI?

I'm going to say no, but ive seen a few people with it in their signatures. So correct me if I'm wrong.

[zeenon53]

I would imagine they would only help by funneling more cool air into the engine bay. Plus they are cheap enough.

[triggz]

ya thats what i was thinking. they are only going to force more air into the engine bay. Is that really going to make a difference?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by zeenon53

I would imagine they would only help by funneling more cool air into the engine bay. Plus they are cheap enough.

The problem with this logic is why didn't BMW include them stock with a closed intake system? One has to believe they felt it took too much air away from the radiator with next to no gains. I don't have the time to log coolant temps, but after thinking of this for a long time, I would bet the coolant temperature will rise with scoops. I think that is a bad idea to introduce on the N54.

[Ilma]

Yes....blockage of the rad is a concern.

But I don't know........I would think that at moderated speeds coolant temps stay within normal operating ranges simply because the N54 cooling system is DME controlled.

The water pump is electroncially invoked as is the radiator fan, so it will pull air through the rad via suction if there is not enough airflow. You can see this happen when your car is sitting stuck in traffic with no airflow over the rad.......the fan kicks in and sucks air from behind.

Also at speed, the area in front of the rad is under high pressure, so I would think that some of the blocked airflow will find it's way around the scoops. Albeit probably at a reduced pressure.

However, with more power from a tune and a bit of rad blockage, you can see that fan and water pump are going to work harder than normal to maintain normal temp operating ranges. So more wear and tear on the water pump.

I don't stay on the throttle for very long......but if you run your car hard and sustained, you will probably exceed their capacity to keep temps normal. But for brief WOT's I think you would be OK on the street.

FWIW, I have logged my water temps during WOT pulls and compared to my friends stock 135, pretty much the same temp ranges for coolant between 205-215 F.

Of course you are balancing this off with refreshing the engine bay with cold air much sooner with scoops, so intake temps should improve somewhat faster. Depends on how often the air volume under the hood refreshes while the car is moving.

Scoops would definitely get more air into the engine compartment much faster.

I have recently logged intake temps between the stock CAI and DCI's and found that it only makes about a 5-9 degree difference in intake temps.

Just yesterday with 72F ambients, my intake temp at constant low rpm cruise was 89F and dropped as low as 86F once I opened the throttle.

I feel safe enough with my temps that I am willing to give scoops a try with DCI's and see if it makes any difference to intake temps.

Right now, the temp differential is around 15-20F as long as the car is moving.

At stoplights it goes up from 90 to about 105F.....and will keep rising the longer you sit. So airflow is key.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Yes....blockage of the rad is a concern.

But I don't know........I would think that at moderated speeds coolant temps stay within normal operating ranges simply because the N54 cooling system is DME controlled.

The water pump is electroncially invoked as is the radiator fan, so it will pull air through the rad via suction if there is not enough airflow. You can see this happen when your car is sitting stuck in traffic with no airflow over the rad.......the fan kicks in and sucks air from behind.

Also at speed, the area in front of the rad is under high pressure, so I would think that some of the blocked airflow will find it's way around the scoops. Albeit probably at a reduced pressure.

However, with more power from a tune and a bit of rad blockage, you can see that fan and water pump are going to work harder than normal to maintain normal temp operating ranges. So more wear and tear on the water pump.

I don't stay on the throttle for very long......but if you run your car hard and sustained, you will probably exceed their capacity to keep temps normal. But for brief WOT's I think you would be OK on the street.

FWIW, I have logged my water temps during WOT pulls and compared to my friends stock 135, pretty much the same temp ranges for coolant between 205-215 F.

Of course you are balancing this off with refreshing the engine bay with cold air much sooner with scoops, so intake temps should improve somewhat faster. Depends on how often the air volume under the hood refreshes while the car is moving.

Scoops would definitely get more air into the engine compartment much faster.

I have recently logged intake temps between the stock CAI and DCI's and found that it only makes about a 5-9 degree difference in intake temps.

Just yesterday with 72F ambients, my intake temp at constant low rpm cruise was 89F and dropped as low as 86F once I opened the throttle.

I feel safe enough with my temps that I am willing to give scoops a try with DCI's and see if it makes any difference to intake temps.

Right now, the temp differential is around 15-20F as long as the car is moving.

At stoplights it goes up from 90 to about 105F.....and will keep rising the longer you sit. So airflow is key.

I have done extensive testing on CAI versus DCI. I got a consistent 9F colder. This is definitely a different subject though.

[RoundelM3]

AFE markets some small scoops that go underneath the area where the stock air ducting connects (behind the grilles). These are supposed to direct more of that inflow up into the ducting and over to where the stock intake would have been and the twin cone filters are with the AFE. That said, I don't know how effective they would be at either increasing airflow into the cones or reducing intake air temp, although my bet would be on the latter - the AFE intake is not "sealed" like the stock unit.

[Shieldze1025]

I noticed a slight increase in oil temp after putting the scoops in, but not enough to worry about, only 5-10* F. They do take up a considerable amount of space behind the kidneys, I would say they block about 30-40% of the radiatior space, but as mentioned above the pressure should still give the radiatior plenty of air.

I'm glad you guys are taking intake temps, I've wanted to test this myself and just haven't had time to.

[SV Concepts III]

Scoops help direct more air into the intake channel whether or not you have a DCI. IMO it's a worthwhile upgrade but is not a huge transformation. With that said, every bit helps.

[GaryS]

We got these reports about Macht Schnell scoops.

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

We've been using them for quite some time with no evidence of increasing coolant temps during summer months.

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I've been logging my water temps lately and have seen absolutely no issue with higher temps.
Everything has been perfectly normal.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Ive seen no adverse effects in 6 months coolant wise, its a small percentage blocked, if a radiator cant support that little blockage we have bigger fish to fry then.

That being said ive yet to even hear my radiator fans come on.

The gains arent anything you will find on the butt dyno, but putting my air into the engine bay cant hurt.

Former I respect you and your deciscion but with the question "why didnt BMW implement this?" We can ask 10 more questions like "why didnt they make a fuel pump that WORKS!?" (Or why has my seatbelt arm broke? Or my center console door or my steering wheel fade, or my window fall out of the track" ETC ETC lol

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Ive seen no adverse effects in 6 months coolant wise, its a small percentage blocked, if a radiator cant support that little blockage we have bigger fish to fry then.

That being said ive yet to even hear my radiator fans come on.

The gains arent anything you will find on the butt dyno, but putting my air into the engine bay cant hurt.

Lol...you won't hear the radiator fan over a running engine.

It is very quiet.

But if you have been driving in rush hour traffic during hot weather, you can hear the fan winding down once you turn off the engine. But there has to be very little background noise.

[Qmax03]

I have them on my car and cant really say they block the radiator much... like JPSLICK said if a small cover like that is goign to hurt us we have bigger problems.

I just like them because 1. they are red and i love the way the look 2. They only cost me $39shipped 3. They cant hurt performance..

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

The problem with this logic is why didn't BMW include them stock with a closed intake system? One has to believe they felt it took too much air away from the radiator with next to no gains. I don't have the time to log coolant temps, but after thinking of this for a long time, I would bet the coolant temperature will rise with scoops. I think that is a bad idea to introduce on the N54.

I don't agree. (go figure huh )
I think that this logic isn't sound since we can ask, "BMW didn't initially have an oil cooler to begin with or BMW didn't have methanol injection, etc.

I think that the scoops weren't added mainly because of excess debris. The scoops grab a lot of rocks and bugs and one would need to change the air filter more often. I think it mainly comes to that.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

If BMW were to implement scoops, they would do it the right way.

Not to say the current scoops are wrong, but if you had the ability we could find the best of both words between function and form and likely BMW would implement a more complex, more efficient way of doing this im sure.

All coming down to price, cost effectiveness, performance and looks.

[halkordy89]

Originally Posted by Qmax03

I just like them because 1. they are red and i love the way the look 2. They only cost me $39shipped 3. They cant hurt performance..

i made my own 1 hour and $5 later

[Qmax03]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

If BMW were to implement scoops, they would do it the right way.

Not to say the current scoops are wrong, but if you had the ability we could find the best of both words between function and form and likely BMW would implement a more complex, more efficient way of doing this im sure.

All coming down to price, cost effectiveness, performance and looks.

Yea buy the scoops, and throw a mesh grill in front so it doesnt throw all sort of junk in your engine bay lol , My cyba scoops have a slight opening on the back so the radiator stilll gets some air as well

[ZombiE90]

i have the red rpi scoops and also got them mainly for the look. if i've noticed any increase in oil temps it's been negligible. i certainly don't notice any difference in HP on the BD, even at speeds over 80 mph

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I don't agree. (go figure huh )
I think that this logic isn't sound since we can ask, "BMW didn't initially have an oil cooler to begin with or BMW didn't have methanol injection, etc.

I think that the scoops weren't added mainly because of excess debris. The scoops grab a lot of rocks and bugs and one would need to change the air filter more often. I think it mainly comes to that.

BMW does have an oil cooler on sport packages after they fixed their obvious mistake. BMW doesn't have methanol injection because it is highly flamable and sitting in your trunk. It is not an item they can warranty. Honestly, I am not sure I even remotely follow your logic?

If you can show me a shread of evidence that a scoop helps anything, I would love to see it. Maybe v-box before and after? Everything would have to be carefully logged to ensure the exact same conditions.

[kjrulz]

bump this!

[Ilma]

Ok....so I bought the Macht-Schnell scoops about two weeks ago along with some wheel spacers.

Gotta say these scoops are pricey, but very nice. Made of molded plastic and they curve away from the radiatior substantially so one can see airflow still easily getting to the rad.

I drove around and measured my intake temps for a couple of days and found that the scoops did not improve my intake temps at all.

In normal driving, I have the same 15-20 degree rise over ambient temperatures as I did before the scoops were put on.

Once I punch the throttle, this differential improves by about 3-4 degrees as my aftermarket intercooler does its thing....but this was the case without the scoops also.

Where the scoops do seem to make some difference is in recovering from heatsoak after a few hard pulls.

Before the scoops I would notice that I would have to drive for about 5-10 minutes with constant airflow before intake temps would come back down to normal after hard driving.

With the scoops, temperatures come back down to normal in about half that time.

So it seems they are refreshing the engine bay with cool air faster, which will help you to get temps back to the normal range once you stop hammering the throttle.......but they are not lowering the overall intake temperature differential over ambient.

[kjrulz]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Ok....so I bought the Macht-Schnell scoops about two weeks ago along with some wheel spacers.

Gotta say these scoops are pricey, but very nice. Made of molded plastic and they curve away from the radiatior substantially so one can see airflow still easily getting to the rad.

I drove around and measured my intake temps for a couple of days and found that the scoops did not improve my intake temps at all.

In normal driving, I have the same 15-20 degree rise over ambient temperatures as I did before the scoops were put on.

Once I punch the throttle, this differential improves by about 3-4 degrees as my aftermarket intercooler does its thing....but this was the case without the scoops also.

Where the scoops do seem to make some difference is in recovering from heatsoak after a few hard pulls.

Before the scoops I would notice that I would have to drive for about 5-10 minutes with constant airflow before intake temps would come back down to normal after hard driving.

With the scoops, temperatures come back down to normal in about half that time.

So it seems they are refreshing the engine bay with cool air faster, which will help you to get temps back to the normal range once you stop hammering the throttle.......but they are not lowering the overall intake temperature differential over ambient.

Very interesting...I wonder if people can say the same about their Cyba scoops???