[Mark II]

OK guys (and gals), here's a weird one for you - I've tried searching but it's difficult to describe in simple terms.

First things first, still not using the Beema much - few trips locally each week and the odd trip down the motorway (maybe once a month) but every once in a while (again once per month), I notice that the car is doing strange things:

1) If the autobox is in D, it seems to remain in a higher gear (won't change down when you might expect it to - like going up a hill) and the engine labours - as if you were driving in 3rd instead of 2nd.

2) This is accompanied by a whirring like noise from the engine bay (rev related) - sort of like the noise the viscous fans used to make on large capacity cars in the past (before we all went electric ).

3) This is also accompanied by a dramatic increase in heat output from the engine bay and exhaust - much hotter than usual.

At first I wondered whether it may have been the DPF (this being the first car I've owned with one) but the symptoms like holding a higher (numerical) gear and the whirring noise don't seem to tie in!??

To recap on the spec, the car has been re-mapped (custom Superships) but still within operating limits for the gearbox, has the K&N air filter and freeflow exhaust (plus the Quaife, BBK etc tho' they shouldn't play a part in this situ).

Despite the low miles (just turned 7k), she's coming 3yrs old soon and I'd like to get this addressed before the warranty expires and so that when I have the green light (healthwise) I can start to do some more miles.

Any thoughts??

[Mark II]

If anyone has any insight into this issue, I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

DPF (or not)? Torque Converter (noise - hope not)? Neither of these seem to be the possible cause to me.... or has the little mouse just fallen off its wheel?

Hoping for some technical input from my fellow e9x'ers

Mark

[TMP]

So, my (limited technical) thoughts

1) Sounds like the gearbox isn't matching your driving style. Maybe for go a long drive and see if it learns to change earlier. Or could need the adaptations reset by a dealer, i.e if it is labouring and not changing when it should

2) Hmm, so is the whirring not the overheat fans coming on due to 3) ?

3) The heat could well be the DPF, when is the last time the car had a good long drive to clear out the pipes

One the K&N air filter, they have been known to foul the MAF (but think that caused an engine warning light to come on) - may be worth seeing if that is clean.

Is it a bluefin - can you take the map of and just check the car is still exhibiting same symptoms?

As above, i reckon a long drive may help, if not its the dealer I am afraid....

[Mark II]

Originally Posted by TMP

So, my (limited technical) thoughts

1) Sounds like the gearbox isn't matching your driving style. Maybe for go a long drive and see if it learns to change earlier. Or could need the adaptations reset by a dealer, i.e if it is labouring and not changing when it should

2) Hmm, so is the whirring not the overheat fans coming on due to 3) ?

3) The heat could well be the DPF, when is the last time the car had a good long drive to clear out the pipes

One the K&N air filter, they have been known to foul the MAF (but think that caused an engine warning light to come on) - may be worth seeing if that is clean.

Is it a bluefin - can you take the map of and just check the car is still exhibiting same symptoms?

As above, i reckon a long drive may help, if not its the dealer I am afraid....

Thanks TMP,

It's certainly hard to understand why it might be acting this way, as it drives fine for the rest of the time but as I said circa once per month I get these odd symptoms.

1) I thought the adaptive gearbox programming (re: speed of adaption) was more relevant to DS mode - and to be honest, in DS it drives fine and adapts, depending how hard it is used but on the occasions when the 'odd symptoms' happen it's always in D and it's as if the 'box is staying in a higher gear for no seemingly good reason (sort of like when the auto's decide to pull away in 2nd, even tho' 1st would be preferable).

2) The noise doesn't sound like an electric fan, more like a viscous fan (which it doesn't have of course) and it sounds a heavier noise than a fan - I just couldn't think of a similar sort of whirring/whooshing (rev related) noise to reference.

3) The car went on a long drive (c300miles) about a month ago and then it's just the usual 6 mile/15 mile local journeys usually at 30mph. With the limited use I give it a quick (20 min) blast every few weeks to blow out the cobwebs (full revs in 2nd, 3rd) but it's not had a lengthy workout for probably over a year.

The remap was a custom job done (in conjuction with Superchips I believe) through Ant at Speed Religion, so unfortunately I can't simply remove/reflash.

The K&N is a thought but with the low miles since fitment I wouldn't have thought it would be anywhere near dirty yet. There are are no warning lights and the system check comes back clear.

Baffled but have more faith in my friends here than the dealers

I was just hoping somebody might have experienced the same.

Thanks again

[philreid]

Sorry to kind of hijack the thread but I didn't know the auto box 'learned' your driving style.

When I've got it in DS, I find it changes up too late and is a bit clunky in changing down so I tend to use manual mode or just leave it in D.

Should I just use DS mode for a longer journey and it should adapt?

Also, considering I have the auto as well, I haven't noticed any noises or excessive heat coming from the car. But I do reckon that for a 3 litre V6 petrol the engine sounds kinda crappy! I used to have a Mondeo 24v V6 and that sounded better

Hope you identify the problem and can get it sorted out.

[JR]

Had something similar a couple of cars back [e92 320d auto] wouldn't change gear properly, down on power ect turned out to be turbo linkage sticking ,i also don't do many miles ,didn't come and go for me, once it happened it stayed that way, i believe there was a "Puma" about it happening from BMW
Bob

[YvesD]

Originally Posted by philreid

But I do reckon that for a 3 litre V6 petrol the engine sounds kinda crappy!

The lack of V6 noise is down to it being a straight 6 methinks

No Ford engine can ever sound better than a creamy smooth BMW 6

Yves

[Mark II]

Hi Phil: No problem - regarding the characteristics of the auto:

I'm not an expert on the more recent ZF electronic autoboxes but my understanding is that it chooses its shift maps (the points at which each gear change is automatically implemented and how it is implemented, shift speed, comfort etc), through adaption to the driver.

I believe there are two shift maps each for D & DS mode and the box 'learns' from the driver's driving style (taking data from various sensors - wheel speed, yaw, deceleration etc) and adapts accordingly, selecting whichever map it feels is appropriate at the time. Whilst the two maps for D are economy driven the maps for DS are more aggressive - effectively sporty and very sporty.

If you're unhappy with the way the car shifts in DS then you could (as you say) try leaving it in DS for longer, so that it adapts and changes to the alternate shift map. There is supposed to be a DIY way to re-set the gearbox but tbh I've never tried this and am not sure if it's just myth.

BTW: The BMW 6 cylinder engine is an inline six, not a vee - the noise thing is subjective but IMHO there's no comparison engineering wise, the BMW straight six is and always has been (old Nikasil bore issues aside) a peach of an engine - no offence


Hi Bob: Thanks but it is definitely an intermittant problem, so it looks like a trip to the dealer is going to be needed - drat!!

[philreid]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that Mark, I think I will try it in DS for a while and see if it adapts a bit.

Also thanks for clarifying that it's not a V6! I have some learning to do

[briers]

I may be wrong but i thought the autobox behaviour/memory started from scratch each time the ignition is started.

[Mark II]

Originally Posted by briers

I may be wrong but i thought the autobox behaviour/memory started from scratch each time the ignition is started.

Hi Briers,

My understanding is that the shift maps chosen by the autobox's Adaptive Transmission Control (for both D & DS mode) are retained after the engine is switched off, so that the 'box restarts in an appropriate map for the driver's general driving style (whether 'learned' in D or DS mode) but that in order to create a 'rolling evaluation' (possibly across different drivers), re-sampling then takes place over the course of each subsequent journey, the sampling period re-commencing every time to the vehicle pulls away from a standstill.

This seems to be supported by the fact that the shift points, (esp noticeable in DS) appear to be later when you have driven the car hard on a previous journey. Conversely, if the car has been driven in a gentle manner for some time, then on the next journey the shift points seem to take place earlier, as the box has switched maps.

Apart from this, I believe there are some mechanical differences in the configuration of the autoboxes on petrol & diesel models and the auto in the e92 also appears to be slightly different to an auto e90/91/93 but only in as much as the shift times in the e92 are faster (not sure whether there are differences in shift quality i.e in addition to speed of shift....).

HTH but happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong, every day's a learning experience....

Mark

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by philreid

Thanks for taking the time to explain that Mark, I think I will try it in DS for a while and see if it adapts a bit.

Also thanks for clarifying that it's not a V6! I have some learning to do

I iniatially though it was a v6 aswell but then Carlos told me it was infact a straight 6...

[Dr Dave]

Mark if you are anywhere near me I will happily lend a trained ear to your car.....but I have a feeling you're miles away!

[Mark II]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

Mark if you are anywhere near me I will happily lend a trained ear to your car.....but I have a feeling you're miles away!

Hi Dave,

'bout 180 miles or so but thanks for offering

Mark

[Bungle009]

The adaptions of the auto gearbox reset each time the car is started. Its not about adaptions.

[TMP]

Originally Posted by Bungle009

The adaptions of the auto gearbox reset each time the car is started. Its not about adaptions.

Errrr are you sure....

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Mark II

Hi Dave,

'bout 180 miles or so but thanks for offering

Mark

Shame, oh well, never mind. If you're ever down this way................

[Skid]

Hi Mark

I found this info regarding the auto box in my car.

Hope it's useful, see the last paragraph.

The gearbox has 13 separate functions, but I'll only go into more detail on the Adaptive Transmission Control. the other functions are Overlap control, Starter inhibitor, Parking lock, Warming-up program, Engine intervention, Downshift inhibitor, Reverse gear inhibitor, Selector lever lock (shiftlock), Standstill decoupling, Interlock, Emergency program, Rock free from snow function.

The Adaptive transmission control is interesting though. As with earlier transmissions the 6-speed box provides the choice between comfort ('D') and sport ('DS') programs.

However, did you know that there are two separate maps for each program? These maps are compiled based on driver inputs (throttle, yaw rate, brake & deceleration etc) but in both programs the adaptive transmission changes from a basic economy map to a more performance oriented map.

In selector lever position 'D' there is an XE map (extreme economy) and an E map (economy). The EGS control unit normally selects the XE map, but in case of particular demands (e.g. load requirements) it will change to the more performance oriented E map. If the input signals change to a more gentle driving style then the adaptive controls will change back to a more economical XE map.

In the Sport program 'DS' with the selector lever in position M/S there is the basic S map (sport) and the performance oriented XS map (extreme sport). If an extremely dynamic driving style is called for, the system will change from the S map to the XS map.

The adaptive systems responds to driving uphill (or towing a trailer), driving downhill, braking/deceleration and winter driving (i.e. info from the DSC). Otherwise the adaptive systems respond to the type of driver using the car and assesses the rate of throttle movement, cornering approach (i.e. wheel speed sensors, yaw rate, road speed), constant-speed travel values and how aggressively you are decelerating.

The adaptation process is restarted each time the car pulls away from a standstill. Adaptation works by comparing the inputs with a set of threshold values that have been constructed from the moment your car was driven following it's last reset (usually at the factory).

[briers]

Thanks Skid,

I was missing that last piece of info; about it comparing the inputs after ignition on with the historical inputs stored.


Question is, can we force a reset ourselves with a combination of timely button presses

[TMP]

Originally Posted by briers

Thanks Skid,

I was missing that last piece of info; about it comparing the inputs after ignition on with the historical inputs stored.


Question is, can we force a reset ourselves with a combination of timely button presses

Not that I am aware - its a dealer job.

They did it under warranty for me when my box was reluctant to change up between 2nd to 3rd (almost like stuck in XE mode - hey you learn something new every day )

[Mark II]

Originally Posted by Skid

Hi Mark

I found this info regarding the auto box in my car.

Hope it's useful, see the last paragraph.........................

Thanks for the info Mark,

TBH, I had seen most of this elsewhere, during my reccy for info - hence my comment to Briers previously regarding the operation of the Adaptive Transmission Control.

The mechanicals on the ZF 6HP Gen 2 aren't too complex (I trained in mech engineering some 28 years ago and worked in the industry & motorsport) but the electronic integration on these latest autoboxes is now beyond my knowledgebase.

Paul (M3FST) has very kindly put me in touch with someone he knows locally but as the odd symptoms are intermittant I'm going to try using the car more over the next few weeks and see how it goes.

FWIW, I'm still not convinced that my problem actually stems from the gearbox but given the interaction between the autobox's EGS control unit, the engine's DDE unit and their control of things like shift programs (and even DPF regeneration cycles) there are a lot of factors at play.

Hopefully, despite the complex interplay, it will turn out to be something simple

Thanks again

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

Shame, oh well, never mind. If you're ever down this way................

Cheers Dave, I'll have a drop of the local scrumpy then