[hotrod182]

I have a 06 M3 SMG, and an 07 335i.
Ran them both, back to back, same place, temps 57F), sea level, 1/4 tank, etc.
The only way to compare two cars is really to run them under exactly the same conditions..or as much as possible. Make 3 runs each, if there is an aberration, you will notice it right away. Other than that, the GTech Pro RR is remarkably consistant if used right (and assuming you take care of it by not dropping it, etc). For example, I timed my former car...05 M3, Convt and got 0-60mph in 5.107, 5.103, 5.133 seconds. All very consistant. On a cold day (47F), at sea level, I once got 4.658, 4.662, 4.668 secs, 0-60, and 13.223 @105.98 in the qtr mile with the 06 M3 Coupe. But on this particular day, and with the same test conditions...I have charted the 06 M3 Coupe on the first (white) column, and the 07 335I in the second (red) column. They are amazingly identical. You can see the shift points in the M3 in the black line. You can see how smooth and seamless the 335i steptronic accleration curve is. The times I get are right in the range of published magazine results.

Results: M3 13.413 @ 105.31 60Ft 2.134 0-60mph 4.882 seconds
Results 335i 13.455 @ 104.29 60Ft 2.110 0-60mph 4.889 seconds.

FYI. With the GTECT you MUST make sure the car is completely stopped for about 5 seconds before you calibrate...(suspension not rocking). Then do about a 5 minute cool down drive between runs...Keep everything consistant. For those of you that can't constantly keep going to the drag strip...then using a GTECH Pro RR is a much better method than "seat of the pants" impressions. You will see effects of even slight modifications.

[teknochild]

is the 335 auto too?

[sdiver68]

Thank you very much for your detailed effort This seems to me to be some of the rigorous testing and control of variables that some others have lacked, probably because most others do not have the opportunity to have both on hand!

Confirms yet again that the stock-for-stock, 335i = e46 M3 at least in an all out straight line acceleration. I think we can also nail the 335i's stock HP right around 330ish, confirming yet again the dyno reports.

[sflgator]

Great job! Yes, this once again confirms the car mag numbers on the stock 335i AT. I think everyone knew that BMW definitely underrated the 335i (again, probably b/c of the the currently selling '06 M3). Are you planning to add the Xede? If so, you can do more G-Tech timed runs, and you'll see just how much faster your car will be. If not, then this just proves that your 335i is just as fast as the '06 E46 M3 SMG (and with newer technology)!!!

btw - one thing I find interesting about your test is how the 2 cars are almost identical throughout the entire 1/4 mi; I would've actually thought the 335i would be a bit faster especially through 0-100mph due to the much higher TQ (~ +50TQ). I guess that (BMW tuned) E46 M3 SMG is still very quick even with lower TQ.

[hotrod182]

Yes, it is a steptronic. The auto is very well suited to the turbocharged engine characteristics. If you power brake it at all, it will just spin the tires. So the best thing, is maybe to launch it at 1400 RPM, and try and modulate it as best possible to keep traction. Now the remarkable thing is, with all this talk about LSD, the 335i consistantly beats the SMG in 60 Ft times. It is a walk in the park to launch. The M3 is a harsh/brutal experience, slamming you back with the 1-2 shift. The impression is that the M3 is much faster. So if you test drive the 2 cars, your impressions will belie the actual measurements. From what I can tell, the M3 has a very slight edge on top end. I have seen as high as 107mph in the M3, and haven't broken 105mph in the 335i yet. However, the 107mph was on a very cold day, and had over 7000 miles on the M3. The 335i should get faster. But again, for how much faster the M3 feels, it is not that much different when instrumented..(as all the car magazines attest). C&D 8/01 did test an M3 at 13.18 @ 106.92 (0-60mph 4.65) which almost exactly mirrors my fastest test times. So I would assume that the 335i runs around 105mph stock. So what is remarkable, is that the M3 is rated at 33HP more, and weighs less..and the perfomance is similar. Its obvious that the 335i is underated by the factory. However, there is absolutely no way for a 335i to run over 120mph in the qtr with only a 50-60HP increase in power. Remember the general rule of thumb..for cars in this weight/power range.

10HP increase=1mph increase... and .10 second decrease in the qtr mile.
100 Lbs takes away the equivalent of about 10HP in the qtr mile.

So if you have 300Lb of passengers in your car, you are literally spotting the other guy a 30 HP advantage. Now..other things come into play like the total average HP under the power curve advantage, etc. But this should at least give you and idea that with a 50-60HP increase..the 335i should be running around 110-112mph in the qtr...and when someone gets to the track..I think you will find they will be right in that range. Pretty close to a stock 400HP, much lighter Corvette.

Here is another graph were the 335i was a tick quicker than the M3. You can see how the 335i curve (in red), shows the tremendous seamless low end power of the 335i. Again...notice the excellent 60Ft times in the 335i without LSD. By the way. the M3 is running 275/30/19s in the rear. In response to how amazingly close they are even with the superior torque of the 335i, you have to remember, the M3 can take advantage of its lower gearing, because it has an additional 1000RPM to redline. So you still shift out of 2nd right after 60mph, and 3rd will go right to about 100mph at the 8000 RPM redline. Gearing will transform HP advantage into torque advantage at rear wheels so to speak.

[hotrod182]

Here is a picture of my two Alpine White Babys

Also. here is a link to the extensive Car And Driver test of accelerometers.They were comparing it to their $30,000 VBOX. You can see the GTECH PRO RR was within .5mph/.10 second in the qtr mile. The BMW is even a better vehicle to test, because the pitch factor on the BMWs is probably less than the more softly sprung Pontiac G6.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...rk-page11.html

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Yes, it is a steptronic. The auto is very well suited to the turbocharged engine characteristics. If you power brake it at all, it will just spin the tires. So the best thing, is maybe to launch it a 1400 RPM, and try and modulate it as best possible to keep traction. Now the remarkable thing is, with all this talk about LSD, the 335i consistantly beats the SMG in 60 Ft times. It is a walk in the park to launch. The M3 is a harsh/brutal experience, slamming you back with the 1-2 shift. The impression is that the M3 is much faster. So if you test drive the 2 cars, your impressions will belie the actual measurements. From what I can tell, the M3 has a very slight edge on top end. I have seen as high as 107mph in the M3, and haven't broken 105mph in the 335i yet. However, the 107mph was on a very cold day, and had over 7000 miles on the M3. The 335i should get faster. But again, for how much faster the M3 feels, it is not that much different when instrumented..(as all the car magazines attest). C&D 8/01 did test an M3 at 13.18 @ 106.92 (0-60mph 4.65) which almost exactly mirrors my fastest test times. So assuming, the 335i runs around 105mph stock. So what is remarkable, is that the M3 is rated at 33HP more, and weighs less..and the perfomance is simular. Its obvious that the 335i is underated by the factory. However, there is absolutely no way for a 335i to run over 120mph in the qtr with only a 50-60HP increase in power. Remember the general rule of thumb..for cars in this weight/power range.

10HP increase=1mph increase... and .10 second decrease in the qtr mile.
100 Lbs takes away the equivalent of about 10HP in the qtr mile.

So if you have 300Lb of passengers in your car, you are literally spotting the other guy a 30 HP advantage. Now..other things come into play like the total average HP under the power curve advantage, etc. But this should at least give you and idea that with a 50-60HP increase..the 335i should be running around 110-112mph in the qtr...and when someone gets to the track..I think you will find they will be right in that range. Pretty close to a stock 400HP, much lighter Corvette.

Here is another graph were the 335i was a tick quicker than the M3. You can see how the 335i curve (in red), shows the tremendous seamless low end power of the 335i.

Ah Ha...you have the 335i Sedan, not the Coupe (that's your M3). No matter since the engine and driving characteristics in the Sedan should be the same as the Coupe...I think.

I think you've demonstrated all of this in a very fair, unbiased (since you drive both the '06 M3 and an '07 335i) and scientific way. So thank you again...this is great!

Just as others have said, you may be right in regards to the trap speed for an Xede-equipped 335i (~ 110-115mph). One thing to note for me and my G-Tech results was the fact that I had my brother (~ 180lbs.) and all my work stuff in the trunk (~ 30 lbs.); so I technically had an extra 210 lbs. in the car I don't usually carry. In addition, my launhes were just from a standstill and "ready, set, go..." with no power-braking and no revving. Theoreticlaly, one could get much better launches than I did in my test.

[sdiver68]

Perhaps I missed it earlier, just wanted to point out the 335i in this test is a SEDAN LOL, apparently sfl and I were posting at the same time...

[hotrod182]

The coupe and the sedan should be similar. The sedan weighs about 25Lb more. The automatic has a slightly lower 1st gear ratio than the 6M. I don't know if its an error, but they also list on the bmwusa website that the automatic has a lower 3.46 rear end ratio compared to 3.08 on the 335i coupe specs?

[ddanny]

do you have any possibility to make a G-Tech run with the 335i from 0-130mph?

[hotrod182]

Don't think there is a long enough straight to do something like that here besides the FWY..LOL. Im pretty confident in the upper end the M3 would pull away. At least thats the way it feels. Some M3 forum members have been regularly hitting 170+mph on their speedos, so even considering the speedometer error, they are pretty good top end machines. 130+ in the M3 is a pretty easy/stable affair. At top speeds the M3 just feels more planted, secure. At low speeds however, I feel the 335i feels lighter, and more agile. Its almost the opposite of what you would think. But the most exciting thing was the other week when I had a 95 Corvette race away from me in my 335i , I just floored it and quietly, smoothly pulled away from his screaming 300HP V8. The look on his face was priceless. So 300HP, Torque filled V8, lighter car, and the 335i sedan beats it....doesn't make sense (at least on paper). On the other hand, if I were in my M3, he would have "expected" me to beat him. So there in lies the beauty of my 335i, a "wolf in sheeps clothing". I love that..
And yes, the Exede is something I have been following very closely. I would love to have another 50-60HP. I don't know if its possible, but if they can get a 335i to beat a stock C6, I would love that. The new GT500 Cobra (w/500HP), barely tested as fast as a stock C6 in Jan 07 issue of Road & Track. And the Mustang has 500HP!. They both ran 112-113MPH in the Qtr Mile. Just goes to show how impossible it would be to expect a 335i with less than 500HP to run over 120mph in the Qtr. In this test, the Z06 with over 500HP, and much less weight..barely ran 121MPH in the qtr.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

So there in lies the beauty of my 335i, a "wolf in sheeps clothing". I love that..

Oh yes...this is true!! So, I guess that makes an Xede-equipped 335i a "werewolf in sheep's clothing."

[canuck335i]

great info

[orionredwing]

Excellent post, thanks! I'll pm you and see where you are in California? Maybe we can hook up for a XEDE run. I think I'm the first XEDE equipped automatic sedan so you can do a closer apples to apples.

orionredwing

P.S. Sorry, I have yet to write my install review.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by orionredwing

Excellent post, thanks! I'll pm you and see where you are in California? Maybe we can hook up for a XEDE run. I think I'm the first XEDE equipped automatic sedan so you can do a closer apples to apples.

orionredwing

P.S. Sorry, I have yet to write my install review.

Theoretically speaking, you "could" buy a G-Tech Pro SS, try it on your Xede-equipped 335i and then return it if you didn't want to keep it; not suggesting that but... They have them on Amazon.com for $199.00.

[hotrod182]

I ordered mine straight from Tesla Electronics. They are right out here in Santa Monica. Got it the next day! I believe it was right around $300.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I ordered mine straight from Tesla Electronics. The are right out here in Santa Monica. Got it the next day! I believe it was right around $300.

The G-Tech Pro RR (track racing version) is $300; the Pro SS (which calculates most of what ppl are looking for -- 0-60mph, 0-100mph, 1/4 mi., HP, TQ, G's, graphs, etc.) is $200. The only reason why I said Amazon.com is b/c the Tesla Web site ordering system isn't currently working (although you could order by phone), ordering via Amazon.com is actually ordering from Tesla -- product ships directly from Tesla, and Amazon.com has a great return policy.

[hotrod182]

Here is a picture of the Exhuast Set Up on the 335i...Kind of interesting how it is routed.

[2007/335i/coupe]

Thanks for the effort to log in and post the data hotrod182.

[Jonmartin]

this is pretty intresting thanks for the info.. I can say however I raced a couple M3's my self and came out on top and pulled fairly nicely enough to where the driver had to follow me just to say "wow I can't believe how fast that thing is" so I'm only skeptical about the 335 losing at higher speed
especially if you start from a roll like I did it's no doubt the 335i will win based on my own experience.

[hotrod182]

The fastest M3 numbers I have seen published where in the August 01 Motor Trend Issue.

[hotrod182]

Note how the numbers are almost exactly the same as the fastest times I got on my GTech Pro RR. Like I said, I haven't seen any published times for the 335i to be this fast, especially in the 0-100 MPH, where the 335i has been around 12 seconds.

The Times are in the following order:

.................M3............................... .....01 Z06.................................Boxster S