E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Preping 335i for Track worthyness - IAT/Cooling



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-02-2010, 01:54 PM   #1
zsapphire7
Colonel
zsapphire7's Avatar
United_States
111
Rep
2,368
Posts

Drives: 08 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (21)

Preping 335i for Track worthyness - IAT/Cooling

Just had an awsome track weekend at Buttonwillow! The car handled like a dream on pretty much a complete m3 conversion bits, ASTs, and a quaife . ill give a bit more of a review on the suspension mods later in the suspension section. The only problems were the dreaded temps....

Outside temps were 100 pretty much all day at BW. I was running v4 and watching my new boost gauge I quickly saw boost go from 12psi to 8psi within 4-5laps. This was obviously on pump gas. The car has DPs, FMIC, CAI, and comes with the oem external oil cooler. I might as well have ran stock because the temperatures were just too high. I didnt run into any limp modes for temperatures, oil hitting 290 max for the day when pushing it really hard, but essentially I was running stock boost.

The question now is, in addition to adding meth/water injection and racefuel, how can i prepare the car to spit out 360-400whp REALIABLY for a 20 min track session? Im looking for consistant power output and no limp modes.... Would just meth injection solve this? I was thinking it would let me increase boost and Ignition timing but that would produce more heat since the turbos would be running more and throw me into limp mode for oil temps/water temps.

Please add along with your suggestions some track data to back it up... I dont just want to hear for example, add another oil cooler or X brand radiator and that you see only 235 temps daily driving... Id like to see some results for dramatic drops in both WATER & OIL temps on track that allow our cars to be pushed hard in 100-110 weather. I know those are high ambient temps but in california, a lot of our tracks see these temps in the summers.
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 02:02 PM   #2
Kelvin1000
Major
United_States
254
Rep
1,297
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW M2 Competition MT Hoc
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (4)

This is where I think the M3 really distances itself from our straight line warriors... I believe an additional oil cooler and higher volume radiator might help but I am not sure if it has been documented at the track.

I wonder where stock boost would go at temps of 290 (without the Procede...)
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 02:20 PM   #3
dlbrooks18
Brigadier General
dlbrooks18's Avatar
164
Rep
3,735
Posts

Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

The benefits of meth are proven and documented all over this site.. run meth at your next track session and see how it goes before you go with an upgraded oil cooler and/or radiator.. my 2cents
__________________

2008 E90 335
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 02:24 PM   #4
3002 tii
Lieutenant General
3002 tii's Avatar
2492
Rep
12,698
Posts

Drives: Z4 M, X5, GX460
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (100)

Garage List
wouldn't a fmic help?
__________________
Follow for latest mods
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 02:27 PM   #5
Trojan4evr
Lieutenant Colonel
Trojan4evr's Avatar
521
Rep
1,927
Posts

Drives: 2021 G80 M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Socal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
^^ +1. why not FMIC? OP, if you want your car to not fall flat on its face on track, you have to go full bolt on.
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 02:30 PM   #6
dlbrooks18
Brigadier General
dlbrooks18's Avatar
164
Rep
3,735
Posts

Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

I would give Harold at HP Autowerks a call, he has a great setup on his 335 track car and from my knowledge has the thing perfectly dialed to run on boost in all kinds of heat for extend periods..

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ight=autowerks
__________________

2008 E90 335
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 02:35 PM   #7
cstavaru
Brigadier General
cstavaru's Avatar
328
Rep
3,262
Posts

Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bucharest, Romania

iTrader: (0)

What intake did you use ? If you had a DCI, I think that if you used the stock intake with a drop-in instead of the DCI you would have fared better as far as heat soak concerns. A Mr. 5-style intake would be ideal.

What intercooler do you have ? I am not a believer in small intercoolers that do not require any kind of cutting...if you want serious IAT performance a medium intercooler is necessary (Think AMS or Code3...HPF is way too large but it would have probably helped )

And on that weather I would use at least 93-95 octane fuel. I am not sure 91 can avoid knock activity on that weather, even with full bolt-ons...

Last edited by cstavaru; 08-02-2010 at 02:43 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 02:51 PM   #8
ar design
ar design's Avatar
United_States
302
Rep
4,408
Posts

Drives: 04 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (9)

Radiator, oil cooler, FMIC, and meth will all help. Give me a ring, I can help get you setup! 303-351-3515
__________________
-Critter
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 02:54 PM   #9
boconnor811
Gettin Creepy
United_States
7
Rep
33
Posts

Drives: 2022 Ford Raptor
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Plymouth, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
wouldn't a fmic help?
OP stated he had a FMIC... zsapphire which FMIC are you using?
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 03:31 PM   #10
zsapphire7
Colonel
zsapphire7's Avatar
United_States
111
Rep
2,368
Posts

Drives: 08 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (21)

Im running a Spearco/code 3 FMIC, UR CAI, so it pics up air from the wheel well. Im pretty much all bolt on.... I have catless downpipes, and HFC AE exhaust.
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 03:45 PM   #11
LOLrance
The Law.
LOLrance's Avatar
Taiwan
311
Rep
14,282
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SF / OC

iTrader: (17)

Nice meeting you yesterday. The temps were definitely way too hot. I limped within the first 3..4 laps on the last 2 sessions.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 03:45 PM   #12
Funkmob
First Lieutenant
22
Rep
306
Posts

Drives: 335i E92 space grey
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

I would like a switch to put the radiator fan on full blast without running the AC. This together with a huge radiator and 2 extra oil coolers should help alot. Still it would be better to modify the front bumper to get more air inside.

My HPF fmic is mounted in stock location , but only half the frontal area is in direct airflow. Cutting the intercooler opening in the bumper bigger should help alot there.

Some guiding tunnel to the stock oil cooler would help alot too . On the other side i have the intake filter , so not much room left for extra oil coolers. Putting them in front of the radiator is not such a good idea i think , but there isn't much choice.

I have a huge FMIC but even after some spirited street driving my car gets heatsoaked like hell. Sometimes i put both windows down and turn the heating to max temp and max fan speed , you can see oil temps drop drastically.
__________________
335I AT 2007. Vishnu V5 / UR CAI / HPF Intercooler / ER Charge pipe / Synapse BOV / Macht Shnell dp's / Vanguard catless exhaust / BSH occ / Labonte S4 Meth injection / Quiafe LSD / Full M3 suspension parts / Bilstein PSS10 / EBC brakes and lines / RB turbo's
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 04:23 PM   #13
zsapphire7
Colonel
zsapphire7's Avatar
United_States
111
Rep
2,368
Posts

Drives: 08 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by l4wr3nc3 View Post
Nice meeting you yesterday. The temps were definitely way too hot. I limped within the first 3..4 laps on the last 2 sessions.
Yea it was nice to see another e90forums guy out there . Too bad we didnt get to talk long. On another note, i was running at 84F fan on max in the cabin the entire time. Still hit 290 temps running hot laps but never went into limp mode or got warnings for overheating. I think thats where the vishnu came to save me by lowering boost/IC accordingly.
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 05:18 PM   #14
boconnor811
Gettin Creepy
United_States
7
Rep
33
Posts

Drives: 2022 Ford Raptor
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Plymouth, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by l4wr3nc3 View Post
Nice meeting you yesterday. The temps were definitely way too hot. I limped within the first 3..4 laps on the last 2 sessions.
Not to hi-jack this thread but have either of you done any hpde's on coolers days? If so what were your experiences?
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 05:26 PM   #15
zsapphire7
Colonel
zsapphire7's Avatar
United_States
111
Rep
2,368
Posts

Drives: 08 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (21)

Ive been to BW in the fall a year or so ago. The car was running up to 270 F oil temps, same mods minus exhaust (fully catted stock). I was boosting only 13~ psi and no issues. Of course, i was on stock suspension so i couldnt even put down the power so i didnt push the car as hard as i did this time.

A pic from the day
Name:  BW wallpaper shrunk.jpg
Views: 2132
Size:  79.5 KB
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 06:15 PM   #16
BrianMN
Banned
117
Rep
2,428
Posts

Drives: 4 Door Family Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis

iTrader: (7)

To any of the experienced engine tuners or track rats---

What do you think about Water Wetter? I've used it on Motocross bikes with tremendous success (only water and Water wetter--no antifreeze/coolant)...but that's obviously not to be used in freezing weather.

I think if you drained your antifreeze and filled with water and Water Wetter, you'd lower coolant temps significantly.
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 07:09 PM   #17
Mike@N54Tuning.com
Joint Chiefs of Staff
Canada
5044
Rep
116,174
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N54tuning.com

iTrader: (89)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Radiator, oil cooler, FMIC, and meth will all help. Give me a ring, I can help get you setup! 303-351-3515
+1

Andrew pretty much nailed it. Oil cooler, rad and fmic are your friend on the track!

Mike
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 07:33 PM   #18
mid-corner fun
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
87
Rep
1,513
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, '22 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ

iTrader: (5)

Welcome to the club :-) I just posted a similar thread in the track section a few days ago.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412156

Ambient in mid-90s. Out of 12 sessions in 2 days, I saw the checkered flag 3 times. Oil temp hit 300 easily, limp modes when running a tune, engine overheating warning when bypassing the tune. No FMIC, stock oil cooler. Interestingly enough, I was able to get slightly better results with DCI, I thought it'd be the opposite.

Signed up today for the ETS FMIC group buy and I'm planning to test Motul's Mocool as well on the next event in 3 weeks. We'll see what that does to temps.

Good luck out there.
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 07:38 PM   #19
cn555ic
cn555ic's Avatar
United_States
464
Rep
18,331
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: US

iTrader: (6)

Mr 5 has gone to the track with meth and reported that there was absolutely no heat soak whatsoever with meth!
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 07:57 PM   #20
Irishace
ElevenPointFive
Irishace's Avatar
Canada
334
Rep
2,449
Posts

Drives: E90 335
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (1)

Meth will drop your IATs down to ambient, that will be more than enough to rectify your issues.
__________________
2008 E90 335xi - N54 Daily Driver
MHD Stage 2+ ~ CPE DPs ~ BMS Intake ~ AMS FMIC
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 08:09 PM   #21
Dr_Dirt
Major
Dr_Dirt's Avatar
United_States
64
Rep
1,476
Posts

Drives: E90 335i 6AT
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DFW

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishace View Post
Meth will drop your IATs down to ambient, that will be more than enough to rectify your issues.
Meth will drop iats but the additional power will create more heat, so bigger radiators (water,oil, and fmic) are ultimately the answer.

Last edited by Dr_Dirt; 08-02-2010 at 10:07 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2010, 08:23 PM   #22
onefastman
Major General
163
Rep
5,689
Posts

Drives: 2009 135i 2011 e92m dct
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Earth

iTrader: (15)

I never had an issue with coolant temps but my oil temps were through the roof. I was not running meth so I think that will help next time
__________________
Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:58 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST