[Utekai]

Udo Lindner states:

"It's easy to get more boost but for a tuner it's not always simple to do it under all conditions - at cold start, when hot and at altitude, for example. And there's a problem with the exhaust downpipe. With more power it gets very hot and will break."

Any comment from Shiv on the danger of the exhaust downpipe overheating and failing?

[bnj]

Udo should concentrate on powertrain. He must know a lot of that area.

[hemi to e90]

Originally Posted by Utekai

Udo Lindner states:

"It's easy to get more boost but for a tuner it's not always simple to do it under all conditions - at cold start, when hot and at altitude, for example. And there's a problem with the exhaust downpipe. With more power it gets very hot and will break."

Any comment from Shiv on the danger of the exhaust downpipe overheating and failing?

same concerns were presented when tuning the FSI turbo vag motors, in the end with those, everyone realized its gonna take years for the "torture" to show if it will. im sure there is damage being caused, but i doubt its gonna be huge!

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Udo

So what's under the 335i's hood? "We have two Mitsubishi turbos running at 0.6bar (8.8psi). These can boost to 0.8bar to compensate for altitude using the two electronically-controlled wastegates," Udo explained.

So, effectively, a 33% rise in boost is nothing the stock computer won't do on its own anyway under certain conditions?

PS and side note:

Evo/Sti haters note the make of the turbos

[JEllis]

A beefier downpipe is usually a pretty standard mod for FI cars...

Jason

[bhvrdr]

Downpipes are made of similar quality materials for many aftermakets. Upgrading the downpipe is usually done out of packaging necessity (for different turbine placement) rather than for reliability concerns. Putting it in a different light, likely the OP was stating the downpipe could be a problem with more power due to increased EGT. In that case, the turbo and even the engine would also be at risk. And this would be true only if the increased power threw engine parameters out of spec. With proper tuning and hardware, however, the EGTs should always be kept in spec. This is why added cooling, close monitoring of EGT, timing and A/F under varying conditions is important. You wouldnt want to mask high EGT problems with adding a larger dp IMO but would want to just make sure the timing and EGT is staying in spec.

cheers! Mike

[Utekai]

Originally Posted by bhvrdr

Downpipes are made of similar quality materials for many aftermakets. Upgrading the downpipe is usually done out of packaging necessity (for different turbine placement) rather than for reliability concerns. Putting it in a different light, likely the OP was stating the downpipe could be a problem with more power due to increased EGT. In that case, the turbo and even the engine would also be at risk. And this would be true only if the increased power threw engine parameters out of spec. With proper tuning and hardware, however, the EGTs should always be kept in spec. This is why added cooling, close monitoring of EGT, timing and A/F under varying conditions is important. You wouldnt want to mask high EGT problems with adding a larger dp IMO but would want to just make sure the timing and EGT is staying in spec.

cheers! Mike

If the Xede modification doesn't include new hardware, specifically, a beefier downpipe, doesn't this place that component at risk?

Hopefully, Shiv has considered this in his program, and compensates where necessary to protect sensitive parts.

I'd like to hear his take on this issue.

[bhvrdr]

Originally Posted by Utekai

If the Xede modification doesn't include new hardware, specifically, a beefier downpipe, doesn't this place that component at risk?

Hopefully, Shiv has considered this in his program, and compensates where necessary to protect sensitive parts.

I'd like to hear his take on this issue.

Not necessarily at all. Put it this way. If the downpipe needed to be "beefier" (not sure when anyone has seen a need for thicker exhaust sections on car ever) than so would the turbo and so would the motor. It would be due to increased exhaust gas temperatures. I would presume or hope that any ecu upgrade would have monitored for this and adjusted air/fuel to richen and adjusted timing appropriately to avoid running the exhaust temps out of spec. If anything I would just want to know before and after EGT and before and after knock pull and then ask if added cooling is necessary or other remedies. Now if the downpipe represented a significant bottleneck precluding higher power without too high of exhaust temps than I can see a need for a new downpipe, but it wouldnt need to be beefier at all but rather larger or with less restriction. I have no idea if this is the case though.

cheers! Mike

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by bhvrdr

Not necessarily at all. Put it this way. If the downpipe needed to be "beefier" (not sure when anyone has seen a need for thicker exhaust sections on car ever) than so would the turbo and so would the motor. It would be due to increased exhaust gas temperatures. I would presume or hope that any ecu upgrade would have monitored for this and adjusted air/fuel to richen and adjusted timing appropriately to avoid running the exhaust temps out of spec. If anything I would just want to know before and after EGT and before and after knock pull and then ask if added cooling is necessary or other remedies. Now if the downpipe represented a significant bottleneck precluding higher power without too high of exhaust temps than I can see a need for a new downpipe, but it wouldnt need to be beefier at all but rather larger or with less restriction. I have no idea if this is the case though.

cheers! Mike

What's up Doc!!! haha, I see you're over here now, no doubt this 335I has peaked BIGTIME interest for enthusiasts. Charlie got a sweet one, he saw the light!

On the subject, no doubt keeping EGT's in check are a must. Look what happened with the A4 BT kits and the ATP manifolds, and Hi Flow Cats. Those guys are on the edge with EGT's. But that's quite a jump from the Xede, Shiv only increased the boost by 2 psi and still got all that power!!!

[bhvrdr]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

What's up Doc!!! haha, I see you're over here now, no doubt this 335I has peaked BIGTIME interest for enthusiasts. Charlie got a sweet one, he saw the light!

On the subject, no doubt keeping EGT's in check are a must. Look what happened with the A4 BT kits and the ATP manifolds, and Hi Flow Cats. Those guys are on the edge with EGT's. But that's quite a jump from the Xede, Shiv only increased the boost by 2 psi and still got all that power!!!

Hi there brother Drew. Yeah, last time we talked BMW, I was thinking M3 (maybe a year ago?) and I decided to do an S4 after messing with the new turbo FSI. I'm very unimpressed with the reliability of this S4 car. Once the S4 is done with all mods, i'll be dropping it and want another fast enough daily driver then likely also do a B5 turbo A4 for dedicated track so I dont have to worry if I pop the motor or wrinkle the body. Hope all is well with you bud. Happy new year to you and the family.

cheers! mike

[BoostedBMW]

I wouldn't stress over it too much. If you are looking to put an XEDE on your car, then installing some new downpipes (preferably catless) shouldn't be much of a problem.

[bnj]

What's the potential problem with the downpipe? One would assume it's made of high grade steel.

[Utekai]

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

I wouldn't stress over it too much. If you are looking to put an XEDE on your car, then installing some new downpipes (preferably catless) shouldn't be much of a problem.

Well, actually, I think it should be stressed.

My understanding is the Xede unit is quickly plugged in/unplugged, and all this from the passenger's side floorboard.

New hardware under the hood makes it a whole new ballgame.

Also, the don't ask, don't tell dealership scenario with the warranty changes if they open up the hood and see hefty new downpipes. New downpipes on an unmodified car is not something that is done, it's done because new downpipes are needed.

This is a primary issue for those considering purchasing an Xede with a car under warranty.

Frankly, I'd not purchase one if it requires new downpipes, or any new hardware under the hood.

[BoostedBMW]

^ Ok, I see where you are coming from, but if I was that stressed about keeping my warranty then I wouldn't modify the car in the first place no matter how much you think the dealership won't pick up on new electronics. Maybe I have this kind of attitude towards modding since I have been screwed by service departments in the past and I now do all my own work/maitenance under the hood, but if I wanted everything warrantied then I wouldn't touch it. : I guess only time will tell if the downpipes will be a potential problem, but I can't see Shiv raising the boost only 2psi and having the EGT's go out of control to the point where DP's will start cracking. I'm sure he can chime in and shine some light on the topic.

[e90335i]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

So, effectively, a 33% rise in boost is nothing the stock computer won't do on its own anyway under certain conditions?

PS and side note:

Evo/Sti haters note the make of the turbos

If this is true can't we just put a boost controller to .8 bar (11.7 psi) with no aftermarket tuning?

[e90335i]

?????????

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by e90335i

If this is true can't we just put a boost controller to .8 bar (11.7 psi) with no aftermarket tuning?

Not a good idea. Upping the boost without any adjustment to fuel, timing, etc., is a recipe for disaster. Read some of the original threads on tuning the XEDE to get an idea of how many other parameters Shiv is controlling to ensure a proper air/fuel ratio and reliable performance under a wide variety of operating conditions.

[e90335i]

I know the fuel and the timing have to be adjusted but didn't that guy udo say the computer compensates (adjust fuel and timing) for up to .8 bar ?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by e90335i

If this is true can't we just put a boost controller to .8 bar (11.7 psi) with no aftermarket tuning?

During the development period of our computer, we first got access to boost, then timing and only after that, fuel control (It's all online). The boost-only results were pretty poor lumpy and inconsistent, compared to what we got once we got timing and fuel control.

Just my 2c
shiv

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by e90335i

I know the fuel and the timing have to be adjusted but didn't that guy udo say the computer compensates (adjust fuel and timing) for up to .8 bar ?

Yes, but I'm sure the computer knows when it has upped the boost and compensates the other factors at the same time. Just raising the boost without compensating A/F, timing, and/or other parameters would be a recipe for disaster!

Now, perhaps you could just trick the altitude sensor and have the rest automagically occur...

[Panoz]

Originally Posted by Utekai

Udo Lindner states:

"It's easy to get more boost but for a tuner it's not always simple to do it under all conditions - at cold start, when hot and at altitude, for example. And there's a problem with the exhaust downpipe. With more power it gets very hot and will break."

Any comment from Shiv on the danger of the exhaust downpipe overheating and failing?

Where did you get this from?

[e90335i]

ok then.time to get xede!