[TwnTrboCAT1212]

Hey guys, LONG story short (as short As Possible)..About a month ago (while my car was still stock) I had a few issues one day (erratic idle upon start-up / sluggish acceleration here + there / engine rocking around / different exhaust note, etc. - but no CEL) + just assumed that I was probably in need of my 4th! HPFP...Symptoms went away for 2 weeks..kept my apt. to get GIAC S1 flash + got it done..enjoyed the tune for One day..next day car went ballistic on start-up. Began Misfiring badly, SES light came right on, engine had violent shake, exhaust was backfiring, etc...Next day I limped the car Back to my GIAC dealer, had it flashed back to stock and then brought it to my local BMW dealer. Turned out that the fault codes led to Misfires in Cylinder's 2,3,4 + some other combustion issue fault code was tripped. So after a Puma case was opened, etc...dealer ended up Swapping injectors 2+3, Replaced Injector 4 Only + replaced their respective coils + spark plugs or whatever (but not all spark plugs), did their recalibration bulls**t + did the latest software update (obviously the injector problem was an underlying issue that many of you have also had + probably just couldn't handle the added power of the tune which sent the injectors over the edge, but Obviously was not Caused by the Tune..so Nothing against GIAC..the prob. was already there).
SO after being at BMW for 4 days, I get the car back...running Mint (but of course I don't have the tune + figure I'll break the car in for about a week and see if everything is Actually fixed)...A Week later I go back to get the GIAC flash done. Car runs Mint for about 2 days now with the FlashTune, but THEN I start getting some serious Surging? in power mostly under WOT in 2nd, 3rd, + 4th gear. Since I have a catback exhaust, the surging / fluttering sound is quite evident with the louder exhaust note for one, but overall the smoothness of the tune just Isn't there + the acceleration is just very sluggish + choppy (seen primarily through the RPM needle inconsistently climbing under heavy acceleration + Felt through the lack in powerful accel. that the car is Suppose to have now with one of the smoothest tunes available). I mean don't get my wrong, the Tune itself is problem free (as evident through a lack in CEL or SES lights, no limps, etc.) + is still There and the car is still obviously much faster than stock (even fast enough that I ran Dead EVEN in a highway pull against my buddies fully built, 12 second, 331 Stroker N/A '93 Mustang running 100 octane + good for about 425-450 HP at bout 1000 lbs. less than my XI E92) but the car still will not let the tune run at its full potential + it's really pissing me off (especially because the performance of the car fluctuates on a day to day basis + runs better some days than others)..
This is where I need everyone’s opinions / advice/ help. I've been dealing with the issue now of this surging in certain gears for a solid 2 weeks with NO CEL's thrown, no issues at start-up anymore, and no Other typical injector or spark plug symptoms. THIS leads me to believe that the Injectors that were "swapped" (2+3) are still not operating as they should be and probably should have been replaced Along with their sibling 4th Injector from the Get-go of the issue..But since the lazy asses at BMW NA decided to prolong the issue instead of replacing at Least 3 of them the first time, I'm now stuck in a bad situation that I don't know how to approach. This surging situation leads me to believe that the other 2, if not all the injectors need to be replaced in addition to the remaining spark plugs (which have never been replaced and I'm now at 41k miles) + I think that would fix the problem because I can't think of anything else that would be causing my car to act this way (at least its nothing serious enough to throw a CEL or half engine light) Problem is, I don't think the injectors are going to get bad enough to start misfiring again anytime soon, especially since they haven't for 2 weeks of being run with the GIAC S1 + I KNOW that BMW won't even think about replacing the other injectors or plugs Until I get a SES light or hard codes thrown for them to do so, Nor would it make any sense going back to stock because Then the issue would prob. Never re-appear and the car would probably run fine under stock boost...unfortunatley the issue only arrises under the added boost and overall power of the tune. Obviously I don't want to continue experiencing this nonsense + not being able to enjoy the tunes full potential, so does this mean I have to dish out hundreds of dollars out of pocket to have the injectors and plugs replaced on my own for the problem to be fixed?!? Or would I be insane taking such a chance in not knowing if that indeed is the problem? If ANYone can help me out with the situation or could give me some feedback on similar situations and what you did to fix the problem, Id really appreciate it. Thanks,

~Chris~

[ajvee]

Chris,

While I have not had this issue, is there a possibility that the S1 flash that you were flashed with after the work at the dealer, is not compatible with the latest BMW software that you were updated with?

I think I vaguely remember that those with the latest BMW software were having trouble with the S1 flash working properly in their cars and the surging that you describe seems in line with this. In fact, when I had my car flashed GIAC specifically told my dealer that they did not have a flash ready for the latest software. Since this was a long time ago, I am sure GIAC has an updated flash, but I am not sure if they have a flash for the latest version of BMW's software.

Perhaps this is worth looking into?

Good luck.

[TwnTrboCAT1212]

Originally Posted by ajvee

Chris,

While I have not had this issue, is there a possibility that the S1 flash that you were flashed with after the work at the dealer, is not compatible with the latest BMW software that you were updated with?

I think I vaguely remember that those with the latest BMW software were having trouble with the S1 flash working properly in their cars and the surging that you describe seems in line with this. In fact, when I had my car flashed GIAC specifically told my dealer that they did not have a flash ready for the latest software. Since this was a long time ago, I am sure GIAC has an updated flash, but I am not sure if they have a flash for the latest version of BMW's software.

Perhaps this is worth looking into?

Good luck.

Hey, thanks for the input...Sorry I didn't make that part clear enough..or clear at all for that matter. When BMW put their latest software update on my car, I went back to my GIAC dealer and left my car for the day..Knowing that GIAC would likely have to write / create a whole new tune to be compatible with the latest update, after we drew the data from my car and sent it to them to check for compatibility. Sure enough, since GIAC didn't have the latest update, I was in communication with Austin at GIAC that day and after a few hours they were able to send my dealer a new Tune that matched the latest software and the tune uploaded to my car without any issues. If there was such a problem as you mention, it probably wouldnt have allowed the tune to be uploaded at all from the beginning.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by TwnTrboCAT1212

Hey, thanks for the input...Sorry I didn't make that part clear enough..or clear at all for that matter. When BMW put their latest software update on my car, I went back to my GIAC dealer and left my car for the day..Knowing that GIAC would likely have to write / create a whole new tune to be compatible with the latest update, after we drew the data from my car and sent it to them to check for compatibility. Sure enough, since GIAC didn't have the latest update, I was in communication with Austin at GIAC that day and after a few hours they were able to send my dealer a new Tune that matched the latest software and the tune uploaded to my car without any issues. If there was such a problem as you mention, it probably wouldnt have allowed the tune to be uploaded at all from the beginning.

On the one hand I agree, but the circumstances of how GIAC created this new update file for you sounds optimistic IMO.

It seems as if they did an on-the-fly fix for you situation, and who knows if they had done any testing with that particularly DME update at GIAC on the dyno etc..and really got to know and work with the new update.

It could certainly be the tune.

The only way to find out, and I hope you aren't being charged for this, but have them flash it back to stock again, and run the car for awhile and see what happens.

Let us know what happens.

What has GIAC had to say about this?

[enrita]

First change the plugs and test the car.
You should also call your GIAC dealer and complain about this. let them test the car and see what they say. Maybe is the flash and you can request another calibration.
If Injectors i personally would just pay this out of my pockets and get ALL of them replaced . If you take this attitude the dealer might just change all of them for free.
At the end you want the car to run well.

[I335]

Hey Chris,

I'm having similar issues with my car - not exactly the same as yours, but similar. I'm in MA too, my dealer is BMW Peabody, and my GIAC guy is East Coast European in NH.

A few weeks ago BMW reflashed my car for the recall. Got the car back and it ran perfectly. A week or so later I had my GIAC guy reinstall my stage 1 flash - similar situation - GIAC said (Austin) the BMW flash was so new he didn't have a file for it yet. However, he was real good about it and created 1 while I waited. Got the flash reinstalled and 4 hours later off I went again and the car was fantastic. The next day I drove up to Maine and back to visit some friends - probably about 250 miles round trip and the car ran perfectly and the flash seemed just as powerful as ever. However, I had to drive on some very dusty roads in Maine and as such, by engine bay was just covered with dust so the next day I washed my engine - just hosed it off and dried it with a towel (because I'm so OCD with my car). After washing the engine I took it for a drive up & down the highway for about 20 minutes to make sure it dried completely under the hood. Still, the car was running just fine.

The next morning when I started the car (completely cold start after sitting all night in an air conditioned garage) it idled very roughly. I shut the car off, restarted it and it ran perfectly for the rest of the day - like it never happened. I figured I may have gotten something wet under the hood that shouldn't be wet. Now, the car has been doing this for a week. It's not as bad as it was the first day but every morning when I start the car cold, it idles roughly for a few minutes but after that the car runs perfectly for the rest of the day - even after shutting it off for a few hours and restarting it again. This only seems to be happening with a very cold start, i.e. only in the morning.

Now then, I also have a friend (and fellow e90post member - Roadkill Rob) who went through the exact same process - had the BMW reflash for the recall, then got his GIAC stage 1 flash reinstalled again (but at a place in Somerville I think) and he told me a couple of days ago that his car is running just great - no issues whatsoever.

I haven't brought my car back to the dealer just yet as I've been hoping it would work itself out, but it doesn't seem to be going away. It is clearly not as bad as it was that first day, but the rough idle is still there, and again, only for the first minute or so and then the car runs perfectly for the rest of the day.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it at this point but I was thinking of just changing the spark plugs out myself (my car has 27K miles on it - original plugs) to see if that helps. I have a feeling that's not the issue though but I'm also not convinced that it's a GIAC issue either (but hearing that you're having a similar issue now you have me thinking twice about that).

So, where do we go from here? First, let's see what we have going on here that's common to both cars. Who is your BMW dealer and where are you getting the flash done? Also, what are the stats on your car? My car is a 2008 coupe with a manual transmission. It would also be good to hear from Rob again to see if he's still problem-free.

[TwnTrboCAT1212]

Originally Posted by I335

Hey Chris,

I'm having similar issues with my car - not exactly the same as yours, but similar. I'm in MA too, my dealer is BMW Peabody, and my GIAC guy is East Coast European in NH.

A few weeks ago BMW reflashed my car for the recall. Got the car back and it ran perfectly. A week or so later I had my GIAC guy reinstall my stage 1 flash - similar situation - GIAC said (Austin) the BMW flash was so new he didn't have a file for it yet. However, he was real good about it and created 1 while I waited. Got the flash reinstalled and 4 hours later off I went again and the car was fantastic. The next day I drove up to Maine and back to visit some friends - probably about 250 miles round trip and the car ran perfectly and the flash seemed just as powerful as ever. However, I had to drive on some very dusty roads in Maine and as such, by engine bay was just covered with dust so the next day I washed my engine - just hosed it off and dried it with a towel (because I'm so OCD with my car). After washing the engine I took it for a drive up & down the highway for about 20 minutes to make sure it dried completely under the hood. Still, the car was running just fine.

The next morning when I started the car (completely cold start after sitting all night in an air conditioned garage) it idled very roughly. I shut the car off, restarted it and it ran perfectly for the rest of the day - like it never happened. I figured I may have gotten something wet under the hood that shouldn't be wet. Now, the car has been doing this for a week. It's not as bad as it was the first day but every morning when I start the car cold, it idles roughly for a few minutes but after that the car runs perfectly for the rest of the day - even after shutting it off for a few hours and restarting it again. This only seems to be happening with a very cold start, i.e. only in the morning.

Now then, I also have a friend (and fellow e90post member - Roadkill Rob) who went through the exact same process - had the BMW reflash for the recall, then got his GIAC stage 1 flash reinstalled again (but at a place in Somerville I think) and he told me a couple of days ago that his car is running just great - no issues whatsoever.

I haven't brought my car back to the dealer just yet as I've been hoping it would work itself out, but it doesn't seem to be going away. It is clearly not as bad as it was that first day, but the rough idle is still there, and again, only for the first minute or so and then the car runs perfectly for the rest of the day.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it at this point but I was thinking of just changing the spark plugs out myself (my car has 27K miles on it - original plugs) to see if that helps. I have a feeling that's not the issue though but I'm also not convinced that it's a GIAC issue either (but hearing that you're having a similar issue now you have me thinking twice about that).

So, where do we go from here? First, let's see what we have going on here that's common to both cars. Who is your BMW dealer and where are you getting the flash done? Also, what are the stats on your car? My car is a 2008 coupe with a manual transmission. It would also be good to hear from Rob again to see if he's still problem-free.

Hey, thanks for the feedback. I have an '08 6-MT XI with about 41k miles on it. Running original spark plugs (minus the one or two that BMW replaced when they did the injector work) and I've been dealing with Marc at German Performance Service for my GIAC service. Marc is a great guy and has been very cooperative throughout this whole headache of mine, but he too is at a complete loss as to what may be going on with my car now. He agrees with me that it sounds as if the injectors that BMW swapped are still acting up and probably should have been replaced the First two times my car went in the shop with Misfires in cylinders 2,3 and 4. Apparently the Puma case stated that the issues weren't great enough to call for all the injectors to be replaced. My issue def. sounds quite different from yours, in that ever since I got the flashtune back on the car...the problem Never lies within the start-up (as it would with a failing HPFP and the long cranks, etc.) it fires up perfectly..It just feels like the car is starving for fuel under heavy-WOT acceleration *At times* which is weird. If there were a problem with the tune itself not being calibrated properly with BMW's latest software update on my car, I'd assume the tune would not Only run like shit ALL the time and in every gear under any type of acceleration habits, but the car wouldnt be able to Pull like the bat out of hell that it does off the line through 1st and 2nd gear...Not to mention the computer would have mentioned a problem during install or CELs would prob. be thrown, but neither of those happened... Anyway, my regular BMW dealer is the new Herb Chambers in Sudbury and they're the ones who have replaced all of my HPFP's and done the injector work. To the previous poster who said to switch back to stock to see if it makes a difference...I already tried that and I'm unable to replicate the issue at all because my problem is only present with the added boost of the stage 1 tune and obviously isnt bad enough to show its ugly face with the what...8 lbs of boost these things run stock. That's why I'm so pissed because I can't get anywhere with BMW while having the tune on my car under factory Warranty still..even if they were to feel what Im feeling and diagnose it, they'd still know it was tuned and nothing would be covered.

[dj128]

Hmm... I've been in touch with GIAC, but now I'm thinking twice about the flash tune.

[I335]

Interesting - I guess the issues we're having are different then. As I had mentioned, my car runs perfectly after it warms up for a minute or 2 and it starts and runs great for the rest of the day. I've also tried blasting through the gears a few times right up to redline in 2nd & 3rd and no power deliver issues whatsoever - feels perfectly smooth just like it should feel.

Also FYI - I talked to my friend Rob and his car is still running perfectly and it's been about 2 weeks or so since he reflashed his car. And BTW - he went to the same guy you went to for his flash but his dealer is Tulley up in NH.

I'm thinking another place we might want to try is Bavarian Performance Group (BPG) in Winchester, MA. I have all my non-warranty work done by these guys and they're really excellent. They're not a dealer so they couldn't care less about the flash or warranty - in fact, they install all my performance stuff for me. I'm thinking about giving them a call maybe to see if they can have a look and figure out what's wrong. I'm betting they can but obviously if I can get it fixed without cost I'd prefer that as I still don't think it's tune related but it just may be that the extra boost the tune provided may just be uncovering something that doesn't rear its ugly head on normal boost.

I'm going to give it a few more days and maybe even just change the plugs myself to see if that helps. I've been wanting to do this anyhow so I suppose now would be a good time. If I find anything else out I'll certainly let you know and I'd really appreciate it if you'd do the same for me.

Thanks,

...Jay

[I335]

Originally Posted by dj128

Hmm... I've been in touch with GIAC, but now I'm thinking twice about the flash tune.

I really don't think the tune is causing any issues but more likely is uncovering a problem that already exists that we're just not seeing without the added boost.

[TwnTrboCAT1212]

Originally Posted by dj128

Hmm... I've been in touch with GIAC, but now I'm thinking twice about the flash tune.

Nah man, to be honest, I really wouldn't let my inconvenient (but not terminal) issue take away from your decision in possibly purchasing this tune(which so far seems isolated to just my car). I strongly believe that it's the car that's giving me the problem with its defective parts that I really believe are in need of replacement (whether it be the spark plugs, injectors, or both), I just don't think the GIAC tune itself is defective. It's almost as if the tune is like 95% there, but Something is holding up its full performing potential and the only thing I can think that would be causing this is from what I already mentioned. Too hard to tell at this point.

[TwnTrboCAT1212]

...anyone else have any ideas as to what this may be or to what I can do? Thanks

[M3 Eater]

I have a JB3, just had the latest BMW flash to include the lag fix for my build. It seems like I hear this winding sound, like the radiator fan is getting two different signal, or like it wasn't put in properly and is grinding against something. If i am in say third gear and run up to 4K rmps.. and come off the throttle , as it drops I feel and hear a resistant winding now, more prominent when the AC is on. Not certain if this is mechanical in nature or software creating this mechanical issue. It is annoying as hell to say the least and I feel like its slowing me down too. It may be something in the new BMW software that tune designers have not yet accounted for. I wish they would hurry up and get to it already...

[TwnTrboCAT1212]

Originally Posted by M3 Eater

I have a JB3, just had the latest BMW flash to include the lag fix for my build. It seems like I hear this winding sound, like the radiator fan is getting two different signal, or like it wasn't put in properly and is grinding against something. If i am in say third gear and run up to 4K rmps.. and come off the throttle , as it drops I feel and hear a resistant winding now, more prominent when the AC is on. Not certain if this is mechanical in nature or software creating this mechanical issue. It is annoying as hell to say the least and I feel like its slowing me down too. It may be something in the new BMW software that tune designers have not yet accounted for. I wish they would hurry up and get to it already...

Omg, I'm getting the same exact thing! (in addition to my initial problem) Its really annoying but it doesn't happen all the time. When it does happen it makes the car feel slower as if the tune isn't "all there", then if I shut the car off and restart..it goes away until maybe another few start cycles and then does it again..wtf? Let me know if you hear of anything else that may be causing this or if there is a solution to it. Thanks.