[I335]

I understand that the GIAC Stage 2 tune requires some supporting hardware - FMIC, Down Pipes, Exhaust, Intake. My question is, is the intake really required or can I just use a drop in with stage 2? From what I've been reading about intakes it seems that very few flow much better than OEM. I'd like to get the stage 2 tune when I have the rest of the hardware but I really don't want an aftermarket intake if I don't need it. Anyone know what the consequences will be if I just go with a drop-in? Will it give me trouble or just not reach the max power potential by a few ponies? If we're talking the latter I'm fine with that but if it will actually cause problems then certainly I won't do it. And what are we talking here, maybe 10hp that I'd be missing out on, if that? TIA guys!

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by I335

From what I've been reading about intakes it seems that very few flow much better than OEM.

In fact, many flow better but few flow better AND cooler...most of them suck hot air and this is felt the most at low-mid RPM when the air flow in the engine bay is low.

[k3silk]

Originally Posted by I335

I understand that the GIAC Stage 2 tune requires some supporting hardware - FMIC, Down Pipes, Exhaust, Intake. My question is, is the intake really required or can I just use a drop in with stage 2? From what I've been reading about intakes it seems that very few flow much better than OEM. I'd like to get the stage 2 tune when I have the rest of the hardware but I really don't want an aftermarket intake if I don't need it. Anyone know what the consequences will be if I just go with a drop-in? Will it give me trouble or just not reach the max power potential by a few ponies? If we're talking the latter I'm fine with that but if it will actually cause problems then certainly I won't do it. And what are we talking here, maybe 10hp that I'd be missing out on, if that? TIA guys!

Im with you on this issue I dont want to buy an intake I dont like they way it looks I would like to just do a drop in for my stage two. Oh well we will see as more people post.

[I335]

Same here - hopefully some of the experts will chime in - Mr. 5, Enrita, Austin!, etc...

[chancejat]

its been proven that the "hot air" dci's help a lot more then they hurt. the turbos do not produce as much heat with the less restrictive dci, so you actually make more power even though your sucking in engine bay air.

[enrita]

Originally Posted by chancejat

its been proven that the "hot air" dci's help a lot more then they hurt. the turbos do not produce as much heat with the less restrictive dci, so you actually make more power even though your sucking in engine bay air.

+1 the turbos need to breath freely. An intake has to be used with Stage 2 because of the high boost achieved. To get more air they will spin faster creating more heat. Injen is a good looking intake IMHO.

[Daya]

I am running a Stett CAI with stage 1 - just waiting for the the stage 2 flash to get finalized with the flashloader (map switcher). The intake sits in front of the driver's side wheel and if you cut away the plastic shield behind the mesh in the front bumper you are essentially force feeding cold air directly into the intake. Don't drive through deep puddles or standing water, though!

Do you not like the look of the DCI or CAI?

I like the way my CAI looks, just black piping in the engine bay, not flashy or noticeable at all

[I335]

It's not that I don't like the look, but an intake just screams "I'm modified" to the dealer when they pop the hood and I'm not at all interested in swapping it out every time I go in for warranty or maintenance service. I'd really like to keep the engine compartment as stock looking as possible.

Also, I really don't understand how the OEM intake is worse than an under hood DCI. The OEM intake gets cold air but a DCI doesn't. So why won't a decent drop in work? Does OEM really flow that much worse than a hot-air DCI?

[I335]

I also don't understand why an intake like Dinan doesn't use the snorkle in front that the OEM intake uses. Is that not getting cold air? Why must it be routed down low?

[Wickede92]

Originally Posted by I335

It's not that I don't like the look, but an intake just screams "I'm modified" to the dealer when they pop the hood and I'm not at all interested in swapping it out every time I go in for warranty or maintenance service. I'd really like to keep the engine compartment as stock looking as possible.

Also, I really don't understand how the OEM intake is worse than an under hood DCI. The OEM intake gets cold air but a DCI doesn't. So why won't a decent drop in work? Does OEM really flow that much worse than a hot-air DCI?

+1

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by I335

I also don't understand why an intake like Dinan doesn't use the snorkle in front that the OEM intake uses. Is that not getting cold air? Why must it be routed down low?

Look closer...it uses the snorkel down low PLUS the one in front...too bad it doesn't fit the 335is and cars with BMW Power Kit installed

I gained 4whp with my Helene drop-in, over the stock filter.

Dinan claims 5 extra hp with their intake on a completely stock car, which means the stock intake is restrictive.

However, since the stock intake can accomodate the 13-14psi overboost in the 335is, it is another reason to believe that a drop-in filter may work with the 16psi GIAC Stage 2.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by I335

I also don't understand why an intake like Dinan doesn't use the snorkle in front that the OEM intake uses. Is that not getting cold air? Why must it be routed down low?

The Dinan intake still uses the stock snorkle. It adds a new lid, with an additional cold air snorkle. It is the ideal intake, some company just needs to make a cheaper noncarbon version.

[enrita]

The Dinan is a great intake that will flow probably enough since it draws air from 2 sides. Expensive but definetely very well looking and engineered.

[joyride]

Originally Posted by I335

I also don't understand why an intake like Dinan doesn't use the snorkle in front that the OEM intake uses. Is that not getting cold air? Why must it be routed down low?

Dinan DOES use the existing intake track, but also uses a CAI type snorkle w/ filter routed down low. It basically is a new top and CAI for the stock set up. It's a really nice set up, but a little pricey for most.

[BzzzBom]

BMW is suppossed to come out with their own performance intake but it will probably be expensive

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by I335

I understand that the GIAC Stage 2 tune requires some supporting hardware - FMIC, Down Pipes, Exhaust, Intake. My question is, is the intake really required or can I just use a drop in with stage 2? From what I've been reading about intakes it seems that very few flow much better than OEM. I'd like to get the stage 2 tune when I have the rest of the hardware but I really don't want an aftermarket intake if I don't need it. Anyone know what the consequences will be if I just go with a drop-in? Will it give me trouble or just not reach the max power potential by a few ponies? If we're talking the latter I'm fine with that but if it will actually cause problems then certainly I won't do it. And what are we talking here, maybe 10hp that I'd be missing out on, if that? TIA guys!

The factory intake box will create vacuum and cause power loss. It is much more pronounced (based on our testing) with the stage 2 calibration. While the factory airbox will work, it will definitely rob you of some power. In order to make the stage 2 numbers we advertise, a DCI or "Mr. 5 modded airbox" will be required.

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by I335

It's not that I don't like the look, but an intake just screams "I'm modified" to the dealer when they pop the hood and I'm not at all interested in swapping it out every time I go in for warranty or maintenance service. I'd really like to keep the engine compartment as stock looking as possible.

Also, I really don't understand how the OEM intake is worse than an under hood DCI. The OEM intake gets cold air but a DCI doesn't. So why won't a decent drop in work? Does OEM really flow that much worse than a hot-air DCI?

It pertains to air flow differences. The openings (or lack thereof) in the airbox will hinder how much air can enter the engine under higher boost pressures. With two cone filters, there is more physical area for air to enter the engine. Even if it is less dense from heat, if you are doubling it, there will be more. This is also why Mr. 5's airbox works, he increased the amount of air that could enter the airbox.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

The factory intake box will create vacuum and ca[u2b][/u2b]use power loss. It is much more pronounced (based on our testing) with the stage 2 calibration. While the factory airbox will work, it will definitely rob you of some power. In order to make the stage 2 numbers we advertise, a DCI or "Mr. 5 modded airbox" will be required.

Is catless downpipes ok with stage 2 or do you need full exhaust? If so what exactly is the restriction in the stock exhaust? Many have found the stock exhaust to work good at high hp levels.

[old account 1]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Is catless downpipes ok with stage 2 or do you need full exhaust? If so what exactly is the restriction in the stock exhaust? Many have found the stock exhaust to work good at high hp levels.

The stock exhaust works, the secondary cats simply make EGTs climb. Though we want this software to be significantly more aggressive, we don't want to allow temperatures to operate at continually high levels. It has never been a matter of can, or can't; but rather, should or shoudn't.

For what it's worth, some of our testers used the stock exhaust and simply removed the secondary cats with good success.

[blisstik]

My understanding from previous PMs with Austin is that stage 2 (not 2+) absolutely requires an FMIC and downpipes. Second cat delete, exhaust and intake are recommended (for more gains) but are not necessary.

I don't know if these requirements and recommendations have changed. They might be putting together an official document right now before release. Who knows? If not, might be a good idea.

[I335]

You guys are good - now I'm understanding...

I didn't realize Dinan used both - that makes a lot more sense.

So Austin, regarding the cats..., I have an AE catless exhaust right now and I'd rather run cats instead of a DP fix. So are you saying I'd be better off getting a set of high-flow catted DPs instead of cats down further in the system? I was thinking the opposite and was planning to get AE high-flow cats, add them into my exhaust, and go with catless DPs. The problem here is that AE no longer sells the high-flow cats so if I'm good to go with catted DPs that would be great. Also, am I correct in assuming that if I go with catted DPs (thinking of Macht Schnell or AR) I won't need the DP fix?

Thanks again, guys!

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Austin@GIAC

For what it's worth, some of our testers used the stock exhaust and simply removed the secondary cats with good success.

Thanks, that was my next question. So basically a fully catless setup is recommended with stage 2, whether it be secondary cat delete, catless midpipe, or aftermarket exhaust.