[R1000K3]

I’ll make this short and clear. The induction leak in my car is fixed and since there is currently no need for N2O I’ve reinstalled the Procede Autotune. The pulling force at 19.5 PSI over a wide RPM range simply amazing

[enrita]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

I’ll make this short and clear. The induction leak in my car is fixed and since there is currently no need for N2O I’ve reinstalled the Procede Autotune. The pulling force at 19.5 PSI over a wide RPM range simply amazing

congrats! you wanna do some pulls tonight ?

[cn555ic]

So you installed the Procede back into the car and what your saying is that the pulling force is enough to the point your no longer installing the nitrous system? I am a bit confused!

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

I’ll make this short and clear. The induction leak in my car is fixed and since there is currently no need for N2O I’ve reinstalled the Procede Autotune. The pulling force at 19.5 PSI over a wide RPM range simply amazing

When did 19.5 psi become safe?

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

When did 19.5 psi become safe?

I know he is spraying meth but I would also turn the boost down for sure to at least 18 psi!

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I know he is spraying meth but I would also turn the boost down for sure to at least 18 psi!

Methanol lowers IATs, but doesn't change the fact that 19.5 on the stock compressors are WAY out of their efficiency range. Even if you have IATs lower due to methanol, the compressors are spinning absurdly fast.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Methanol lowers IATs, but doesn't change the fact that 19.5 on the stock compressors are WAY out of their efficiency range. Even if you have IATs lower due to methanol, the compressors are spinning absurdly fast.

What psi are you spraying with nitrous?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

What psi are you spraying with nitrous?

14 at about with a .31 jet (35 shot) producing about 525 rwhp (DJ corrected).

[enrita]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

When did 19.5 psi become safe?

i have the feeling he's trying to have an excuse to get upgraded turbos when the OEM ones are fried

[R1000K3]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

So you installed the Procede back into the car and what your saying is that the pulling force is enough to the point your no longer installing the nitrous system? I am a bit confused!

I understand. I have not been using N20 at all so far since I was not ready with the car to the event last weekend, where N20 would have been used. So, I went back to the Procede since I was keen to see how it would work with a leak-free system. And I'm not dissapointed to put it mildly

It may very well have been possible to optimize the JB3 to the same extraordinary performance level by making a good custom map, but I didn't spend time on this since the Procede is expected to do this by itself, which it did. Apart from being a proven strong tune now in my car, and by that not saying JB3 is necessarily weaker, I prefer the Procede for other reasons such that it is more feature rich. This may change when JB4 is released and proven but we are not there at the moment.

[R1000K3]

Originally Posted by enrita

i have the feeling he's trying to have an excuse to get upgraded turbos when the OEM ones are fried

Yes, in case they wear too fast it is a good reason to ditch them in favor for fresh turbos. The car runs perfectly fine at this boost level though since I'm running on 99 octane (RON) and unrestricted meth flow on M10's, almost 1000 ml/minute and have no water in the mixture.

I'm not convinced the life expectancy for upgraded turbos is better than for stockers (except for improved WG-bushing). I though the upgraded units have stock size axle and bearings and if so they are not stronger in this sense. I hope I'm wrong though because if the dimensions on the axle and bearings are the same as STD they will wear even faster due to their higher operating pressure.

[R1000K3]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

When did 19.5 psi become safe?

I didn't say is is safe I guess any boost above 15 PSI is starting pushing things too much, but i honestly don't know if e.g. 19 PSI is a lot worse than 17 PSI as long as it is used during short periods only. If I would drive fast for extended periods, which will be the case already this weekend in Germany, I'll be using 17 PSI as the upper limit. The turbo units seems to be OK though, they will push 20 PSI without hesitation. The reason it is so may depend a lot in the new FMIC with low counter pressure.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

I didn't say is is safe I guess any boost above 15 PSI is starting pushing things too much, but i honestly don't know if e.g. 19 PSI is a lot worse than 17 PSI as long as it is used during short periods only. If I would drive fast for extended periods, which will be the case already this weekend in Germany, I'll be using 17 PSI as the upper limit. The turbo units seems to be OK though, they will push 20 PSI without hesitation. The reason it is so may depend a lot in the new FMIC with low counter pressure.

Did you look at WGDC before and after on the new intercooler? That might give some idea about the pressure drop across the core.

Pushing 20 psi with 100% WGDC is not something I would call "pushing without hesitation". I would call that pushing the turbos as hard as is humanly possible.

Regardless, it is your car to do with as you wish. You really should try to lower that boost and run the nitrous since procede supports it now. You can get reasonable boost and a lot more power out of the nitrous.

[R1000K3]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

........ You really should try to lower that boost and run the nitrous since procede supports it now. You can get reasonable boost and a lot more power out of the nitrous.

That is the plan

[R1000K3]

Power is back 400+ stable rwhp on 3rd gear as shown in pic and a maximum of about 440 rwhp registred by Racelogic on 4th gear.

[enrita]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

Yes, in case they wear too fast it is a good reason to ditch them in favor for fresh turbos. The car runs perfectly fine at this boost level though since I'm running on 99 octane (RON) and unrestricted meth flow on M10's, almost 1000 ml/minute and have no water in the mixture.

I'm not convinced the life expectancy for upgraded turbos is better than for stockers (except for improved WG-bushing). I though the upgraded units have stock size axle and bearings and if so they are not stronger in this sense. I hope I'm wrong though because if the dimensions on the axle and bearings are the same as STD they will wear even faster due to their higher operating pressure.

Luckily my upgraded turbos have bigger axle as well so running 20 psi on these is not pushing the limits at all. Probably 25 would be more like pushing it on them.

[Doug007]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

So you installed the Procede back into the car and what your saying is that the pulling force is enough to the point your no longer installing the nitrous system? I am a bit confused!

In his other thread he explained that he uses JB3 when he wants to run N20 and switches over to PROcede for day to day running without N20

[Doug007]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

Yes, in case they wear too fast it is a good reason to ditch them in favor for fresh turbos. The car runs perfectly fine at this boost level though since I'm running on 99 octane (RON) and unrestricted meth flow on M10's, almost 1000 ml/minute and have no water in the mixture.

I'm not convinced the life expectancy for upgraded turbos is better than for stockers (except for improved WG-bushing). I though the upgraded units have stock size axle and bearings and if so they are not stronger in this sense. I hope I'm wrong though because if the dimensions on the axle and bearings are the same as STD they will wear even faster due to their higher operating pressure.

I would start saving for upgraded turbos.

Running 19.5 psig on the stock units is WAY outside the ratings as Former Boosted said. This means that instead of the stock range of 200,000 rpm on the turbos you may be at over 300,000 rpm. (speed increases with the squareroot of pressure (sqrt(19.5/9) = 1.5x).

The compressor will also be producing a lot of heat at these conditions since it's WAY outside it's peak efficiency conditions. Your intercooler and heavy meth spray are likely helping you here, but your poor turbos are being heavily stressed.

Sounds like they are holding up for now anyways, but for how long nobody can say

[OpenFlash]

72k miles on my original turbos and around 200 passes at 20psi of boost. Of all the things that have needed to be replaced on my car (2 fuel pumps, 1 steering column, 1 water pump and a steering rack), the turbo and and engine have proven to be the most reliable.

Upgraded turbos, IMHO, should be considered as a performance upgrade. Not necessarily a reliability upgrade. In terms of failure rate, I'd my money on the stockers.

[Doug007]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

72k miles on my original turbos and around 200 passes at 20psi of boost. Of all the things that have needed to be replaced on my car (2 fuel pumps, 1 steering column, 1 water pump and a steering rack), the turbo and and engine have proven to be the most reliable.

Upgraded turbos, IMHO, should be considered as a performance upgrade. Not necessarily a reliability upgrade. In terms of failure rate, I'd my money on the stockers.

Good to hear they can hold up to some abuse

What is the delta between stock and upgraded turbos in terms of performance if they're making the same boost? I mean, compressor outlet temps will obviously be way lower with the upgraded units, but it sounds like a high efficiency intercooler and some serious meth spray will get the engine inlet temps down to pretty manageable levels.

I've heard upgraded turbo pump+meth numbers around 450rwhp max. Where would you put the stockers?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Doug007

Good to hear they can hold up to some abuse

What is the delta between stock and upgraded turbos in terms of performance if they're making the same boost? I mean, compressor outlet temps will obviously be way lower with the upgraded units, but it sounds like a high efficiency intercooler and some serious meth spray will get the engine inlet temps down to pretty manageable levels.

I've heard upgraded turbo pump+meth numbers around 450rwhp max. Where would you put the stockers?

Correct, a good FMIC will keep both turbo set-ups (stock and upgraded) within the same ballpark in terms of IAT. So the big power gains, all other things equal (boost level, operating conditions, other mods) come from the upgraded turbos allowing exhaust gas to exit the turbine housing more readily. Think of an undersized/overspun turbo as a plug/restriction in the exahaust. There comes a point at which more boost in the intake manifold wont result in more power because flow through the engine is restricted on the outlet side.

So 20psi on the stock turbos may make 440whp while the same 20psi on upgraded turbos may be worth 525whp.

On the other hand, the STOCK turbos may make the same (or even more) power at lower boost/airflow levels where they operate very efficiently (say 7-12psi). Whereas upgraded turbos may have a slight (but measurable disadvantage) since their turbine side may not be operating within its peak efficiency range.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

72k miles on my original turbos and around 200 passes at 20psi of boost. Of all the things that have needed to be replaced on my car (2 fuel pumps, 1 steering column, 1 water pump and a steering rack), the turbo and and engine have proven to be the most reliable.

Upgraded turbos, IMHO, should be considered as a performance upgrade. Not necessarily a reliability upgrade. In terms of failure rate, I'd my money on the stockers.

you need a new start button too