[OpenFlash]

Hi guys,
There has been a lot of discussion as to subjective "smoothness" when it comes to different tunes. But what most people are feeling is the relationship between applied throttle angle (your right foot) and boost onset (the moment at which the engine transitions from off boost to on boost operation). As well as the applied throttle angle that full boost is demanded.


The Stock Tune
Generally speaking, with the factory n54/n55 tune, boost is not requested until applied throttle goes beyond 40-50%. Which means that the first half of the throttle pedal, the engine feels like a naturally aspirated lowish compression 3.0l engine. Nothing very inspiring. But easy enough to drive smoothly for those with heavy boots or heavy feet.

Beyond 40-50%, the DME starts to reqest boost. The more throttle, the more boost demand. But by 80-90% throttle, the factory tune requests full boost. Which means that the last 10-20% of throttle doesn't do anything. But with only 6-8psi of boost to play with, this delayed boost onset (40-50% throttle) and nonlinear boost demand ramp up isn't particularly bothersome or noticeable. In fact, most may find the on/off boost transitions exciting. And the fact that full power is available before full throttle, the tune gives the impression that the engine is more powerful than it really is.

For cars equipped with a Sport button (n55), the applied TSP boost onset point is bumped up from the standard 40-50% to 30-40%. A small change. But enough to make the engine feel more "eager" and willing to respond. And with full boost is requested at an earlier 70-80% applied throttle, the driver experiences full power at a lower applied throttle angle. The end result is a car that is not only more eager to respond to throttle input but one that also feels more powerful. Despite offering no more power at full throttle.



Procede v4
Given the it's unique abilities to integrated with the factory DME via the CAN bus and to drive the solenoids directly, the Procede can literally re-write the rules on throttle/boost relationships. Unlike other piggybacks, it is not influenced by throttle/boost nonlinearities in the factory mapping. This means it does not scale up this nonlinearities as it scales up boost target. And unlike what seems to be the case with reflashes (and of course other piggybacks as well), the Procede also rewrites the boost control algorthims (namely Proportional, Integral and Derivitive corrections) to be more suitable and effective in high boost applications. Which is why it controls 20psi applications just as effectively as it controls 10psi applications. With virtually no sizeable positive boost errors that would otherwise result in unwanted throttle closure/oscillations. Especially at partial throttle which is where most of us drive on a daily basis.

In re-writing the throttle/boost relationship, we made it a point of spreading the no-boost and full-boost demand points over a wide-as-possible range. This meant we wanted boost onset to come at an early 15-20% (depending on RPM) with full boost not being demanded until 100% throttle. This gave us an 80-85% range at which to "spread out" the boost demand. And since most of our customers run at 12-20psi of boost pressure, spreading this range out of a wide range of applied throttle makes power easier to modulate and more controllable. At high power levels, there is no reason to add any nonlinearities to make the car feel even more "eager" or powerful as it would just make the power harder to modulate.

New Update:
Taking things a bit further, we now give the user the ability to adjust the boost onset point. So instead of having boost target start its upwards ramp at the usual 15-20% applied throttle, the user can make it so that boost onset occurs much later. The advantage of this is that some users will find it nice to have more throttle to play with before boost is demanded. This will make a car feel "SMOOTHER" since the Procede will be less sensitive to what your right foot is doing at the beginning of the throttle range. The downside is that once the boost onset threshold is crossed, there is less range to "spread out" the boost demand. Of course, different users, with different applications, will have different ideal settings.

From what I've found/heard, users with 6ATs or 7DTCs will find running a more delayed boost onset point will find that it's easier to drive the car smoothly since since they are less "in control" of their cars. While us old school 6MT guys like the standard early boost onset since we are in full control of how our car accelerates (ie, gear selection).

So what we did is add a new User Adjustable entry called "Boost Reponse" (see attached pic). This is adjustable from 0 to 100%. 100% is standard v4 mapping. Which means boost onset will start early in the applied throttle range (15-20%). With this setting, the car will be very responsive and predictable to the throttle. Something that has always been the trademark of Procede v4.

Decreasing this value will delay the boost onset point. Setting it to 50% will make the throttle point for boost onset increase to 40-45%. And from that point onwards (to 100%), boost demand will increase linearly.

And decreasing this value all the way to 0% will delay boost onset to 60-70% throttle. And from that point onwards (to 100%) boost demand will increase linearly.

So What Does This All Mean?
-If you love the way v4 drives, don't make any changes. Objectively speaking, this is ideal as it follows the orders of your right foot perfectly.

-If you want a more "re-flash" like throttle/boost relationship (more responsive during the first half of the throttle pedal travel and more responsive during the second half of travel), then set this value to say, 50%. It will have all the perceived "smoothness" of a reflash but with ALL the on-tap power, boost targeting accuracy and throttle control of the Procede v4. This setting may be nice for those with heavy right foots, 6AT or 7DCT transmissions.

-If you want something that feels stock like until you put your foot closer to the floor, set this value to 0

The nice thing is that none of these setting will change power output at WOT. Or will even effect your 1/4 mile performance. But it will give you vastly different subjective driving experiences.

And we have made it so that you can adjust each map independently. So, in essense, you can make map1 a smoother, less responsive map (by lowering throttle response) and map2 more responsive (by leaving throttle response at 100%). And just change them on-the-fly depending on what you need/want

The new firware update (#29) and User Software (v4.20) will be posted up tomorrow.

cheers,
shiv

[forza1976]

very cool update as usual!

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Hi guys,
There has been a lot of discussion as to subjective "smoothness" when it comes to different tunes. But what most people are feeling is the relationship between applied throttle angle (your right foot) and boost onset (the moment at which the engine transitions from off boost to on boost operation). As well as the applied throttle angle that full boost is demanded.


The Stock Tune
Generally speaking, with the factory n54/n55 tune, boost is not requested until applied throttle goes beyond 40-50%. Which means that the first half of the throttle pedal, the engine feels like a naturally aspirated lowish compression 3.0l engine. Nothing very inspiring. But easy enough to drive smoothly for those with heavy boots or heavy feet.

Beyond 40-50%, the DME starts to reqest boost. The more throttle, the more boost demand. But by 80-90% throttle, the factory tune requests full boost. Which means that the last 10-20% of throttle doesn't do anything. But with only 6-8psi of boost to play with, this delayed boost onset (40-50% throttle) and nonlinear boost demand ramp up isn't particularly bothersome or noticeable. In fact, most may find the on/off boost transitions exciting. And the fact that full power is available before full throttle, the tune gives the impression that the engine is more powerful than it really is.

For cars equipped with a Sport button (n55), the applied TSP boost onset point is bumped up from the standard 40-50% to 30-40%. A small change. But enough to make the engine feel more "eager" and willing to respond. And with full boost is requested at an earlier 70-80% applied throttle, the driver experiences full power at a lower applied throttle angle. The end result is a car that is not only more eager to respond to throttle input but one that also feels more powerful. Despite offering no more power at full throttle.



Procede v4
Given the it's unique abilities to integrated with the factory DME via the CAN bus and to drive the solenoids directly, the Procede can literally re-write the rules on throttle/boost relationships. Unlike other piggybacks, it is not influenced by throttle/boost nonlinearities in the factory mapping. This means it does not scale up this nonlinearities as it scales up boost target. And unlike what seems to be the case with reflashes (and of course other piggybacks as well), the Procede also rewrites the boost control algorthims (namely Proportional, Integral and Derivitive corrections) to be more suitable and effective in high boost applications. Which is why it controls 20psi applications just as effectively as it controls 10psi applications. With virtually no sizeable positive boost errors that would otherwise result in unwanted throttle closure/oscillations. Especially at partial throttle which is where most of us drive on a daily basis.

In re-writing the throttle/boost relationship, we made it a point of spreading the no-boost and full-boost demand points over a wide-as-possible range. This meant we wanted boost onset to come at an early 15-20% (depending on RPM) with full boost not being demanded until 100% throttle. This gave us an 80-85% range at which to "spread out" the boost demand. And since most of our customers run at 12-20psi of boost pressure, spreading this range out of a wide range of applied throttle makes power easier to modulate and more controllable. At high power levels, there is no reason to add any nonlinearities to make the car feel even more "eager" or powerful as it would just make the power harder to modulate.

New Update:
Taking things a bit further, we now give the user the ability to adjust the boost onset point. So instead of having boost target start its upwards ramp at the usual 15-20% applied throttle, the user can make it so that boost onset occurs much later. The advantage of this is that some users will find it nice to have more throttle to play with before boost is demanded. This will make a car feel "SMOOTHER" since the Procede will be less sensitive to what your right foot is doing at the beginning of the throttle range. The downside is that once the boost onset threshold is crossed, there is less range to "spread out" the boost demand. Of course, different users, with different applications, will have different ideal settings.

From what I've found/heard, users with 6ATs or 7DTCs will find running a more delayed boost onset point will find that it's easier to drive the car smoothly since since they are less "in control" of their cars. While us old school 6MT guys like the standard early boost onset since we are in full control of how our car accelerates (ie, gear selection).

So what we did is add a new User Adjustable entry called "Boost Reponse" (see attached pic). This is adjustable from 0 to 100%. 100% is standard v4 mapping. Which means boost onset will start early in the applied throttle range (15-20%). With this setting, the car will be very responsive and predictable to the throttle. Something that has always been the trademark of Procede v4.

Decreasing this value will delay the boost onset point. Setting it to 50% will make the throttle point for boost onset increase to 40-45%. And from that point onwards (to 100%), boost demand will increase linearly.

And decreasing this value all the way to 0% will delay boost onset to 60-70% throttle. And from that point onwards (to 100%) boost demand will increase linearly.

So What Does This All Mean?
-If you love the way v4 drives, don't make any changes. Objectively speaking, this is ideal as it follows the orders of your right foot perfectly.

-If you want a more "re-flash" like throttle/boost relationship (more responsive during the first half of the throttle pedal travel and more responsive during the second half of travel), then set this value to say, 50%. It will have all the perceived "smoothness" of a reflash but with ALL the on-tap power, boost targeting accuracy and throttle control of the Procede v4. This setting may be nice for those with heavy right foots, 6AT or 7DCT transmissions.

-If you want something that feels stock like until you put your foot closer to the floor, set this value to 0

The nice thing is that none of these setting will change power output at WOT. Or will even effect your 1/4 mile performance. But it will give you vastly different subjective driving experiences.

And we have made it so that you can adjust each map independently. So, in essense, you can make map1 a smoother, less responsive map (by lowering throttle response) and map2 more responsive (by leaving throttle response at 100%). And just change them on-the-fly depending on what you need/want

The new firware update (#29) and User Software (v4.20) will be posted up tomorrow.

cheers,
shiv

[IlChengis]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

Dude, I completely agree with your feelings, but is it really necessary to quote a HUGE message like that? To post a tiny smilie at that?

-Walter

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by Treppiede

Dude, I completely agree with your feelings, but is it really necessary to quote a HUGE message like that? To post a tiny smilie at that?

-Walter

That's nothing. It really gets me when someone posts a 10 pic post, and then someone replies and quotes it! I don't need to see all the pics all over again, just quote the text, thank you! Rant over...

PS Nicely done, Shiv. Can't wait to play with it. Sometimes I've felt that I'm getting too much boost at very little throttle, so I guess this would be perfect to play with for that.

[shyestsparks]

So what happened to the 2nd. gear Tq map?

[BrianMN]

Vishnu never sleeps! haha

This sounds great for 6AT guys...however I'll agree with Shiv on the 6MT. I love the early boost onset of my 6MT...very good power at low throttle

[chumley]

Great! Thanks!

Even with a 6MT I might want to at least try it dialed back just a bit from time to time. I can see where this would be nice when you're in stop and go driving, driving in the rain, etc. As Shiv said, maybe setup alternate maps.

Actually, I'd feel alot better about the wifey driving the car in the rain with the ability to reduce throttle response. It's way too easy to break the tires loose in nearly any gear in the wet!

[vase330]

I am one of the 6AT guys who likes it just as it currently is. Now my question is lets say I make a regular lazy map, and map 2 a sport map. While changing it on the fly is all good, will I loose the adaptation and learned values of the map I just switched from such that it has to re-learn when I switch back?

So what else is new in this release?

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shyestsparks

So what happened to the 2nd. gear Tq map?

+1

[vase330]

Originally Posted by themyst

+1

What are you guys talking about? And are you refering to MT or AT?

[themyst]

Originally Posted by vase330

What are you guys talking about? And are you refering to MT or AT?

you see 1st gear tq map in the screen shot? 100% = full set boost target.

e.g. 20psi is target, you set it to 80% you will only get 16psi in 1st gear.

This "smoothness" replaced the above function for 2nd gear, which a lot of us need, especially when the weather gets colder. High boost in colder temps = no traction.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I think I like where its at... 6 MT FTW.

I guess most of us run 100% power in 2nd gear anyway... So I guess we arent missing much by taking that out.

1st gear I run 50% power...

[OpenFlash]

We removed the 2nd gear torque limiter because it was pretty useless for 99% of people. Instead, we are going to implement something much more functional and useful.

[thwgw24]

now I don't even want to try the GIAC Stage 2 flash anymore!

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by thwgw24

now I don't even want to try the GIAC Stage 2 flash anymore!

lol.. I say still try it. I think you'll appreciate the Procede a bit more

Shiv

[TMR]

I dont understand what is not "smooth" about my proceed.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by TMR

I dont understand what is not "smooth" about my proceed.

lol! I agree I think we are the majority here and I think my car is running "smoother" than ever! Great function though but I wont be using it all that much cause I love how my car is running NOW!

[themyst]

I love my Procede just the way it is. All I want for Christmas is CAN DME ignition timing readouts in the fuel gauge instead of the boost gauge! Can you make it happen perhaps a little early Shiv?

[MF80]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I think you'll appreciate the Procede a bit more

Shiv

We already do. Actually, I've just made a final decision and bought Procede two days ago over the flash just because of greatest works of art you keep putting into it. You're willing to spend your time, listen to customers demands/requests and then use them along with your creative ideas as a V4 tune development to another step higher. Thanks man!

J-

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by themyst

I love my Procede just the way it is. All I want for Christmas is CAN DME ignition timing readouts in the fuel gauge instead of the boost gauge! Can you make it happen perhaps a little early Shiv?

haha... ok. That's really easy to do.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

haha... ok. That's really easy to do.