335d vs A3 2.0tdi

FPO · 10-18-2010, 04:37 PM

Hey all,

Have done almost 700 miles in my new 335d now and loving the grunt it gives you at the slightest press of the accelerator pedal.
One thing is still bugging me though, and that is the handling compared to my '06 A3 2.0tdi S-Line DSG.
At low speeds the 335d's handling is probably more responsive slightly than my a3 however get upto around 60mph+ around the country lanes and i feel a lot less in control of the 335d than i did with my a3.
The 335d feels loose and less planted, almost like the front wheels arent touching the ground all the time. I constantly need to adjust the steering wheel to keep it going in a straight line. Whereas my a3 gave me the feeling that the slightest movement of the steering wheel would give an instant change in direction and i could tell what it was doing at all times (almost!)

I did notice it when i test drove a 335d earlier in the year and thought that the car must have the active steering option. However my car is identical without the AS option.

I would presume that FWD and RWD driving styles are different?

Can anyone explain this to me?

Vaheed1 · 10-18-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPO

Hey all,

Have done almost 700 miles in my new 335d now and loving the grunt it gives you at the slightest press of the accelerator pedal.
One thing is still bugging me though, and that is the handling compared to my '06 A3 2.0tdi S-Line DSG.
At low speeds the 335d's handling is probably more responsive slightly than my a3 however get upto around 60mph+ around the country lanes and i feel a lot less in control of the 335d than i did with my a3.
The 335d feels loose and less planted, almost like the front wheels arent touching the ground all the time. I constantly need to adjust the steering wheel to keep it going in a straight line. Whereas my a3 gave me the feeling that the slightest movement of the steering wheel would give an instant change in direction and i could tell what it was doing at all times (almost!)

I did notice it when i test drove a 335d earlier in the year and thought that the car must have the active steering option. However my car is identical without the AS option.

I would presume that FWD and RWD driving styles are different?

Can anyone explain this to me?

Is your 335 an M sport?

toxicnerve · 10-18-2010, 04:45 PM

I think you just need to adjust to the car mate.

When I first got my 335d I had the same feeling as you, it just didn't fill me with confidence. But, 8 months later I am throwing the car around much more. Give it time.

willhollin · 10-18-2010, 04:46 PM

Knock all the traction control off, should make things a little different.

Vaheed1 · 10-18-2010, 04:51 PM

I stepped into my brothers FWD Type R for the day, as he borrowed mine to taxi the family to the airport in mine...and it took a lot of getting used.

m1bjr · 10-18-2010, 05:12 PM

Runflat tyres feel like this.

Try losing 3-4psi at the front and try again.

toxicnerve · 10-18-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m1bjr

Runflat tyres feel like this.

Try losing 3-4psi at the front and try again.

Hrm, I'm on RFT and run 2.7Bar on the front and 3.2Bar on the back.

Grip levels feel fine to me, but then perhaps I'm not pressing on as much as others here.

beemerbird · 10-18-2010, 05:30 PM

You are comparing two different cars and still have some adjustments to make both in your mind and how you actually drive the new car.

You've gone from a ligher, shorter wheelbase FWD with less power to a longer, heavier, RWD with more power. Not sure what you mean about the steering feeling light and having to correct it all the time in a straight line. Don't remember mine being like that. Not sure if you're describing tramlining or the fact you're not used to RFT's?

Edit: Been thinking about this and I've sort of done the reverse to you in as far as going from a bigger and heavier S5 to a smaller and much lighter TTRS. Ignoring the fact they're both quattro, although slightly different set ups, what I found initially with the TTRS I was making too many adjustments with the steering wheel especially whilst cornering. Purely subconsciously as I'd driven the S5 for ten months. This was during the running period, but once I'd covered 700 miles as per the book and started to drive it properly ie. giving it some, my driving style changed and the rest is history. I've simply adjusted to the different steering characteristics of the current car.

I'd give it a bit more driving time yet and look into tyre pressures etc. as already mentioned. Just watch your back end in the wet.

HighlandPete · 10-18-2010, 05:54 PM

I'll put my money on the tyres. What are you running and what condition?

Quote:

The 335d feels loose and less planted, almost like the front wheels arent touching the ground all the time. I constantly need to adjust the steering wheel to keep it going in a straight line.

My 330d was like that until I sorted the car and removed the RFTs. Got a real BMW again.

HighlandPete

FPO · 10-18-2010, 06:25 PM

Yep 335d M-Sport!
The car has Pirelli P-Zero Tyres from delivery last monday. Obviously RFT's!
So you recommend I drop the pressure M1 by 3-4 psi? What psi would alleviate the problem in your opinion?
Probably better for the safety of our county (Worcestershire) Will that I leave the traction control on for the moment until i get used to the car

Probably a bit of both beemerbird (apt name for a lady driving a ttrs!) It just feels like there is a considerable amount of play in the steering wheel when im giving it some.
I have never really driven a RWD car before this one. Done about 150,000 miles over the last 5 years in either a golf or an a3 (FWD cars) and am probably not used to how a rwd needs to be driven. I always drove my FWD cars hard (got the license to prove it) and now just feel like ive started to learn to drive again. Lets hope I learn fast!

May have to consider non RFT when my tyres need replacing! I would love to drive a 335d with the non RFTs on for comparison. Doubt BMW would have anything unless it was an M3

Let me see whether anything changes after my trip to Germany and back!

Thanks for everyones help!

FPO

beemerbird · 10-18-2010, 06:35 PM

Lol, well I've had two BMW's and had the E92 335d when I joined this forum and despite some of the others saying I should change my user name when I got the Porsches (let you work it out lol), Carl hates people changing their user names............confuses him.

Anyhow, yes see what it's like after your trip to Germany, but you've still bought a very good car, so enjoy.

Sure someone else will advise about the tyre pressures.

ss134 · 10-18-2010, 07:01 PM

What tyre pressures are you running? On my 335i with the manufacturers pressures my car felt exactly as you are describing - i reduced the pressures (cold) to 2.3 bar F and 2.4 bar R and the car felt much better in all circumstances - try it.

dxb335d · 10-19-2010, 03:53 AM

Ditch the runflats. Car far quicker through the twisties
without them. Zo much more confidence inspiring!

Em135eye · 10-19-2010, 04:27 AM

+ many on runflat ditching!

Martin 335d · 10-19-2010, 02:07 PM

Christ I swapped my A3 S line for a 335d and the handling was on a different level, the A3 was the most horrid lifeless thing ive had the displeasure to drive with absolutely zero steering feel, the 335 was taught, superior stability and had bags of steering feel in comparison

rup · 10-19-2010, 02:23 PM

Yup, bin the RFT's, will improve handling greatly.

tomgrey · 10-19-2010, 02:42 PM

I am going to disagree with the others that said ditch the run flats. I think you are referring to the tramlining when you say the need to constantly adjust. I had the same when I first had the car and it made you feel less confident.
Just drive the car for another 500miles and then the tyres will have adjusted to the car, just like you will have. You will love the car and be very confident about cornering, the RFT makes the car feel nailed on.
I have changed to non run flats and they are different, better for cruising (so suits my convertible) but the RFT are tops for feel when driving enthusiastically and cornering hard. Of course that's only 5% of everyday driving.

zltm089 · 10-19-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'll put my money on the tyres. What are you running and what condition?

HighlandPete

plus one...

I was gona say that!!!...

I compared my 335i and all the other cars I've owned and driven....

Vauxhall Astra (my first car, FWD)
Peugeot 406 (with massive spoiler and exhaust chav style! FWD)
TTS ( Quattro)

The 335i is definitely the one I'm scared to push to its limit...well, i've pushed it a few times, but everytime, i have that feeling of "shit what its gona do now".....I think its really down to the Runflat tyres....as I have that feeling of driving on ice.... don't get me wrong, the handling is awesome on the e92 but, its just that you really don't know when is the limit.....

with the peugeot and the astra, the handling was just SHIT and understeer was common on every bend/ roundabout....

with the TTS, handling is great and you know when you reach the limit and when the car will start sliding....with the e92, I find it quite hard to know, even after 2 years of ownership....

Regarding what you 've said about higher speed, I found that my e92 is definitely more stable at higher speeds than the TTS.....maybe with a heavier A3, it might be diffferent....I guess, the A3 will FEEL more agile than the e92, but I have a feeling that an e92 will handle as good if not better than any TT or A3 (with non runflats on!!!....)

My view is to get non runflats fitted (performance or even mid range tyres)....and switch off the dsc/dtc fully....it will buttfcuk any A3 or TT!!!...

FPO · 10-19-2010, 02:51 PM

I couldnt disagree with you more Martin. LOL I guess it all depends on what your used to.
I could comfortably go round any corner at speed in the A3 and know exactly how far the car could be pushed. Whereas I feel like im not in complete control with the 335d when cornering quickly in the country roads. Wish it was the other way round!
Lets see what happens over the next few thousand miles Tom. Although as mentioned earlier i felt the same response on the demo car and that had done 8,000 miles. I cant be sure whether it had been fitted with a new pair of tyres around the same time i test drove though.
Ill let you all know how things progress.....!

zltm089 · 10-19-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomgrey

but the RFT are tops for feel when driving enthusiastically and cornering hard. Of course that's only 5% of everyday driving.

ok,I disagree, I haven't switched to non runflats, but based on what others have said....and also due to the fact that i like to push the car aswell.....

Regarding pushing the car to its limit, I think that the Runflats aren't that great and you would feel more confident to push the car fitted with non runflats....I think because of the "hard" side walls of runflats, you lose some connectivity to the road....(hence that feeling of driving on hard ice...) on the other hand, the suspension has to be firm and hard for performance, yes!

FPO · 10-19-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zltm089

plus one...

I was gona say that!!!...

I compared my 335i and all the other cars I've owned and driven....

Vauxhall Astra (my first car, FWD)
Peugeot 406 (with massive spoiler and exhaust chav style! FWD)
TTS ( Quattro)

The 335i is definitely the one I'm scared to push to its limit...well, i've pushed it a few times, but everytime, i have that feeling of "shit what its gona do now".....I think its really down to the Runflat tyres....as I have that feeling of driving on ice.... don't get me wrong, the handling is awesome on the e92 but, its just that you really don't know when is the limit.....

with the peugeot and the astra, the handling was just SHIT and understeer was common on every bend/ roundabout....

with the TTS, handling is great and you know when you reach the limit and when the car will start sliding....with the e92, I find it quite hard to know, even after 2 years of ownership....

Regarding what you 've said about higher speed, I found that my e92 is definitely more stable at higher speeds than the TTS.....maybe with a heavier A3, it might be diffferent....I guess, the A3 will FEEL more agile than the e92, but I have a feeling that an e92 will handle as good if not better than any TT or A3 (with non runflats on!!!....)

My view is to get non runflats fitted (performance or even mid range tyres)....and switch off the dsc/dtc fully....it will buttfcuk any A3 or TT!!!...

They are Pirelli P-Zeros with only 1000 miles of gentle wear Pete!
Is that a good or bad thing as never had them before?

Thats exactly the feeling, driving on Ice! There doesnt seem to be that bite on the road. Guess thats why the M3 has NON RFT from delivery!
I had a 3dr A3 that was remapped to 170bhp and due to this always fitted either Michelin PS2's or Goodyear Assymetrics / GSD3's. There was obviously some understeer but the car was a great little handler and trust me i dont hang around on any roads!

Non RFT to come soon! Save me a few quid anyway.

zltm089 · 10-19-2010, 03:01 PM

Also, with a FWD background, it will take some time to adjust to a powerful RWD......especially if its an auto....I still sometimes, feel that the throttle response is unpredictable (or maybe its just that i'm still "adapting" to a RWD after 2 years!!!....)

anyways.... BMW e92 butt fcuks Audi A3!.... IMO.....

;-)

10-18-2010, 04:37 PM	#1
FPO Second Lieutenant 49 Rep 247 Posts Drives: 2010 LCI E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	335d vs A3 2.0tdi Hey all, Have done almost 700 miles in my new 335d now and loving the grunt it gives you at the slightest press of the accelerator pedal. One thing is still bugging me though, and that is the handling compared to my '06 A3 2.0tdi S-Line DSG. At low speeds the 335d's handling is probably more responsive slightly than my a3 however get upto around 60mph+ around the country lanes and i feel a lot less in control of the 335d than i did with my a3. The 335d feels loose and less planted, almost like the front wheels arent touching the ground all the time. I constantly need to adjust the steering wheel to keep it going in a straight line. Whereas my a3 gave me the feeling that the slightest movement of the steering wheel would give an instant change in direction and i could tell what it was doing at all times (almost!) I did notice it when i test drove a 335d earlier in the year and thought that the car must have the active steering option. However my car is identical without the AS option. I would presume that FWD and RWD driving styles are different? Can anyone explain this to me?
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10-18-2010, 04:45 PM	#3
toxicnerve Colonel 99 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	I think you just need to adjust to the car mate. When I first got my 335d I had the same feeling as you, it just didn't fill me with confidence. But, 8 months later I am throwing the car around much more. Give it time.
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10-18-2010, 04:46 PM	#4
willhollin Major General 274 Rep 9,914 Posts Drives: VW T5 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Worcestershire iTrader: (1) Garage List 2007 BMW E92 330d SE [10.00] 2010 Transporter T5 ... [0.00]	Knock all the traction control off, should make things a little different. __________________
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10-18-2010, 04:51 PM	#5
Vaheed1 Major 70 Rep 1,112 Posts Drives: E90 330d M Sport Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne iTrader: (0)	I stepped into my brothers FWD Type R for the day, as he borrowed mine to taxi the family to the airport in mine...and it took a lot of getting used.
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10-18-2010, 05:12 PM	#6
m1bjr LSD - No, you're not seeing things 76 Rep 3,302 Posts Drives: Baby F36 Gran Coupe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Plymouth UK iTrader: (4)	Runflat tyres feel like this. Try losing 3-4psi at the front and try again. __________________
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10-18-2010, 05:30 PM	#8
beemerbird Major General 179 Rep 7,953 Posts Drives: Merc diesel Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Yorkshire iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 TTRS [9.00] 2007 Audi S5 [0.00] May 2007 Porsche 99 ... [0.00] March 2007 Porsche ... [0.00] Sep. 2007 E92 335d SE [0.00] July 2006 E90 330i ... [0.00]	You are comparing two different cars and still have some adjustments to make both in your mind and how you actually drive the new car. You've gone from a ligher, shorter wheelbase FWD with less power to a longer, heavier, RWD with more power. Not sure what you mean about the steering feeling light and having to correct it all the time in a straight line. Don't remember mine being like that. Not sure if you're describing tramlining or the fact you're not used to RFT's? Edit: Been thinking about this and I've sort of done the reverse to you in as far as going from a bigger and heavier S5 to a smaller and much lighter TTRS. Ignoring the fact they're both quattro, although slightly different set ups, what I found initially with the TTRS I was making too many adjustments with the steering wheel especially whilst cornering. Purely subconsciously as I'd driven the S5 for ten months. This was during the running period, but once I'd covered 700 miles as per the book and started to drive it properly ie. giving it some, my driving style changed and the rest is history. I've simply adjusted to the different steering characteristics of the current car. I'd give it a bit more driving time yet and look into tyre pressures etc. as already mentioned. Just watch your back end in the wet. Last edited by beemerbird; 10-18-2010 at 06:04 PM..
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10-18-2010, 06:25 PM	#10
FPO Second Lieutenant 49 Rep 247 Posts Drives: 2010 LCI E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Yep 335d M-Sport! The car has Pirelli P-Zero Tyres from delivery last monday. Obviously RFT's! So you recommend I drop the pressure M1 by 3-4 psi? What psi would alleviate the problem in your opinion? Probably better for the safety of our county (Worcestershire) Will that I leave the traction control on for the moment until i get used to the car Probably a bit of both beemerbird (apt name for a lady driving a ttrs!) It just feels like there is a considerable amount of play in the steering wheel when im giving it some. I have never really driven a RWD car before this one. Done about 150,000 miles over the last 5 years in either a golf or an a3 (FWD cars) and am probably not used to how a rwd needs to be driven. I always drove my FWD cars hard (got the license to prove it) and now just feel like ive started to learn to drive again. Lets hope I learn fast! May have to consider non RFT when my tyres need replacing! I would love to drive a 335d with the non RFTs on for comparison. Doubt BMW would have anything unless it was an M3 Let me see whether anything changes after my trip to Germany and back! Thanks for everyones help! FPO
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10-18-2010, 06:35 PM	#11
beemerbird Major General 179 Rep 7,953 Posts Drives: Merc diesel Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Yorkshire iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 TTRS [9.00] 2007 Audi S5 [0.00] May 2007 Porsche 99 ... [0.00] March 2007 Porsche ... [0.00] Sep. 2007 E92 335d SE [0.00] July 2006 E90 330i ... [0.00]	Lol, well I've had two BMW's and had the E92 335d when I joined this forum and despite some of the others saying I should change my user name when I got the Porsches (let you work it out lol), Carl hates people changing their user names............confuses him. Anyhow, yes see what it's like after your trip to Germany, but you've still bought a very good car, so enjoy. Sure someone else will advise about the tyre pressures.
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10-18-2010, 07:01 PM	#12
ss134 Brigadier General 240 Rep 3,899 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Germany/UK iTrader: (1)	What tyre pressures are you running? On my 335i with the manufacturers pressures my car felt exactly as you are describing - i reduced the pressures (cold) to 2.3 bar F and 2.4 bar R and the car felt much better in all circumstances - try it. __________________ 2014 AW F80 M3 DCT 2011 AW E90 M3 DCT - Sold 2010 JZB E90 M3 DCT - Sold 2009 6MT E90 LCI 335i M -Sport - Sold
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10-19-2010, 03:53 AM	#13
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 1031 Rep 29,344 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Ditch the runflats. Car far quicker through the twisties without them. Zo much more confidence inspiring! __________________ 997.2 GT3
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10-19-2010, 04:27 AM	#14
Em135eye Banned 180 Rep 4,302 Posts Drives: M135i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South West iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW M135i 5 door [0.00]	+ many on runflat ditching!
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10-19-2010, 02:07 PM	#15
Martin 335d First Lieutenant 23 Rep 302 Posts Drives: E91 335d M Sport Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Aberdeen iTrader: (1)	Christ I swapped my A3 S line for a 335d and the handling was on a different level, the A3 was the most horrid lifeless thing ive had the displeasure to drive with absolutely zero steering feel, the 335 was taught, superior stability and had bags of steering feel in comparison
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10-19-2010, 02:23 PM	#16
rup Private First Class 4 Rep 171 Posts Drives: Z4 - 23 Sdrive Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Yup, bin the RFT's, will improve handling greatly.
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10-19-2010, 02:42 PM	#17
tomgrey Private First Class 17 Rep 152 Posts Drives: e93, M sport, 269 alloys Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: bristol iTrader: (0)	I am going to disagree with the others that said ditch the run flats. I think you are referring to the tramlining when you say the need to constantly adjust. I had the same when I first had the car and it made you feel less confident. Just drive the car for another 500miles and then the tyres will have adjusted to the car, just like you will have. You will love the car and be very confident about cornering, the RFT makes the car feel nailed on. I have changed to non run flats and they are different, better for cruising (so suits my convertible) but the RFT are tops for feel when driving enthusiastically and cornering hard. Of course that's only 5% of everyday driving. __________________ Pro-Nav, Pro sound, comfort, most everything.
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10-19-2010, 02:51 PM	#19
FPO Second Lieutenant 49 Rep 247 Posts Drives: 2010 LCI E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I couldnt disagree with you more Martin. LOL I guess it all depends on what your used to. I could comfortably go round any corner at speed in the A3 and know exactly how far the car could be pushed. Whereas I feel like im not in complete control with the 335d when cornering quickly in the country roads. Wish it was the other way round! Lets see what happens over the next few thousand miles Tom. Although as mentioned earlier i felt the same response on the demo car and that had done 8,000 miles. I cant be sure whether it had been fitted with a new pair of tyres around the same time i test drove though. Ill let you all know how things progress.....!
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10-19-2010, 03:01 PM	#22
zltm089 Banned 267 Rep 7,686 Posts Drives: 335i SE Coupe Space Grey Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: LONDON iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 335i [10.00]	Also, with a FWD background, it will take some time to adjust to a powerful RWD......especially if its an auto....I still sometimes, feel that the throttle response is unpredictable (or maybe its just that i'm still "adapting" to a RWD after 2 years!!!....) anyways.... BMW e92 butt fcuks Audi A3!.... IMO..... ;-)
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