[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

So most of the E90posters will know that us Sydney guys had a drive day, and not to rub it in to those who couldn't make it, but it was a great day! Some great photography, good convos and great driving.

Anyway so during the twisties I reckon I took to them pretty hard partly because I wanted to and partly because I was going to be late for work lol. Given I've only had the car a few weeks now this was my first real chance to get really acquainted with the Bavarian's dynamics

Below are my assessments of what I want to improve in order of priority and what I reckon will contribute the most to creating my ultimate driving machine. I welcome any comments and invite all who read through my rather lengthy post to narrate their experiences of their car in the twistys and how they would like to upgrade individual components to make their car that much more enjoyable to drive from a purely dynamic point of view.

Tyres
My near bald stock continental runflats were craphouse. I just wish I had decent rubber on the day, it would of given me much higher corner exit speeds and grip is especially important when you've only got 160killer wasps at the fly. Got a set of 19s landing soonish and looking forward to the fatter 235/265 rubber I'll be riding on so glad that this problem won't be around for too long!

Suspension
Stock shocks with eibach springs. The ride is still just as comfortable, no scrubbing on stock 17s for those that are interested. As for how it rides, WAY too floaty over those wisemens ferry undulations at higher speeds. The car was really bouncing around in between the corners and definitely the second most annoying thing of the car. It just never really settled and I can't wait till I can afford a high quality set of coilovers so I can adjust the rebound settings.
As a a part of suspension/handling I didn't really feel the need for swaybars at this stage, the stock ones keeping bodyroll in check quite nicely! Later on though slightly larger (perhaps UUC) sways front and rear would firmen things up, but for now I reckon there's more effective things I can splash my hard-earned on for better results.

Power
No surprise here, great for getting around town but with the N52 you really need to be in the right gear for meaningful acceleration AND plan single lane overtaking VERY carefully. A tune (in the form of active autowerkes or OE tunning) will come in the next few months with the ubiquitous air box (perhaps aFe) accompanying it. I'd love to get headers as well but it's hard to find ones that aren't super expensive (like supersprint) or ones that actually fit properly (aka OBX which require modifications to get them to fit).

Overall my car performed fantastically on the day and stock out of the box, there's not many other cars this side of $100k I'd choose to drive through the twisties other than a manual 6cylinder BMW

[sbce90]

Fatter rubber will be an improvement, but bigger wheels - not necessarily. I noticed a distinct difference when swapping from 17s to 18s. Many people actually keep smaller wheels on sticky rubber as their track set ups. Nevertheless, a good set of rubber will go a long way. My Bridgestone RFTs were okayyyyyyy.... but I could feel them slipping and skipping a bit.

You're running eibach springs? But you're riding so high... :P I suppose it's not fair to compare nonsport e92 with sport e90 suspension, but personally I felt my car handled fairly well. Some tyres and I'd be set.

As for power.. well. uh. GO N46N... lol. Have to say though, i was surprised at my engines willingness. It was enough for our purposes and was probably not as pant soiling an experience as a tuned N54 would have been. Surprised I made some of the overtakes I did too.

You don't mention brakes? Maybe you didn't go hard enough.

[John_01]

Maybe i missed something, but when did you get the Eibach springs fitted? Do you have any b4 and after pics for comparison?

I not sure how much can be done for the power of the N52. I got the BMW performance intake mainly for the sound. No idea if it actually adds any hp or not. I think we get the European spec air box, which is already better than the stock one in the US.

I have been looking at headers too. But there are some issues: Is it suitable for the 2.5L engine rather than the 3.0L in the USA? Can you get O2 sims that will work without throwing codes on the ECU? Possible issues with fitting the headers on a RHD car? Will there be any advantage without some type of ECU tuning?

I know what you mean about choosing opportunities for overtaking very carefully. There weren't a lot of places where I felt I had enough vision and confidence to overtake, so generally I exercised patience unless others were well below the speed limit. Even with a manual 6 cylinder..

[kaishang]

Nice write up.

I'm not sure though big wheels help anything except let you feel bumps more. Larger=stiffer tyres are likely to give you less traction on non-smooth roads, not more traction. Esp at Australian speeds, why torment yourself with 19" wheels?

I had a loaner 3-series with 18 or 19 inch wheels and M-sport suspension for 3 days recently. I thought traction was noticibly worse than my 17" wheels and standard suspension. I also went head-to-head with a 335d M-sport/19" on a drag strip and beat the guy with standard wheels and suspension despite the extra grunt in a 335d cf my 330d.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by bmroxm5

So most of the E90posters will know that us Sydney guys had a drive day, and not to rub it in to those who couldn't make it, but it was a great day! Some great photography, good convos and great driving.

Anyway so during the twisties I reckon I took to them pretty hard partly because I wanted to and partly because I was going to be late for work lol. Given I've only had the car a few weeks now this was my first real chance to get really acquainted with the Bavarian's dynamics

Below are my assessments of what I want to improve in order of priority and what I reckon will contribute the most to creating my ultimate driving machine. I welcome any comments and invite all who read through my rather lengthy post to narrate their experiences of their car in the twistys and how they would like to upgrade individual components to make their car that much more enjoyable to drive from a purely dynamic point of view.

Tyres
My near bald stock continental runflats were craphouse. I just wish I had decent rubber on the day, it would of given me much higher corner exit speeds and grip is especially important when you've only got 160killer wasps at the fly. Got a set of 19s landing soonish and looking forward to the fatter 235/265 rubber I'll be riding on so glad that this problem won't be around for too long!

Suspension
Stock shocks with eibach springs. The ride is still just as comfortable, no scrubbing on stock 17s for those that are interested. As for how it rides, WAY too floaty over those wisemens ferry undulations at higher speeds. The car was really bouncing around in between the corners and definitely the second most annoying thing of the car. It just never really settled and I can't wait till I can afford a high quality set of coilovers so I can adjust the rebound settings.
As a a part of suspension/handling I didn't really feel the need for swaybars at this stage, the stock ones keeping bodyroll in check quite nicely! Later on though slightly larger (perhaps UUC) sways front and rear would firmen things up, but for now I reckon there's more effective things I can splash my hard-earned on for better results.

Power
No surprise here, great for getting around town but with the N52 you really need to be in the right gear for meaningful acceleration AND plan single lane overtaking VERY carefully. A tune (in the form of active autowerkes or OE tunning) will come in the next few months with the ubiquitous air box (perhaps aFe) accompanying it. I'd love to get headers as well but it's hard to find ones that aren't super expensive (like supersprint) or ones that actually fit properly (aka OBX which require modifications to get them to fit).

Overall my car performed fantastically on the day and stock out of the box, there's not many other cars this side of $100k I'd choose to drive through the twisties other than a manual 6cylinder BMW

Awesome. Regrettably I couldnt make it. But it would have been fun to compare or cars. I have the Eibach and Koni FSDs, Strut tower bar, standard sways and 19" Rims. I would have love to see how it felt in the tight corners.
As for headers and exhaust, let me know if you find something that fit our cars (i have a K&N cone filter, not the one specifically desgined for our cars as I wanted on with an open top for even more flow, throttle response definately improved).

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by John_01

Maybe i missed something, but when did you get the Eibach springs fitted? Do you have any b4 and after pics for comparison?

I not sure how much can be done for the power of the N52. I got the BMW performance intake mainly for the sound. No idea if it actually adds any hp or not. I think we get the European spec air box, which is already better than the stock one in the US.

I have been looking at headers too. But there are some issues: Is it suitable for the 2.5L engine rather than the 3.0L in the USA? Can you get O2 sims that will work without throwing codes on the ECU? Possible issues with fitting the headers on a RHD car? Will there be any advantage without some type of ECU tuning?

I know what you mean about choosing opportunities for overtaking very carefully. There weren't a lot of places where I felt I had enough vision and confidence to overtake, so generally I exercised patience unless others were well below the speed limit. Even with a manual 6 cylinder..

I considered stock shocks with Eibachs, but I am glad I didn't the ride will be very floaty. Go with Koni FSDs, you wont even know your running 19" low profiles.

[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

Originally Posted by SBC

Fatter rubber will be an improvement, but bigger wheels - not necessarily

You don't mention brakes? Maybe you didn't go hard enough.

Yeh I understand bigger wheels aren't an improvement but for aesthetics I'm definitely going with 19s.
Brakes were fine, it's not that I didn't go hard enough, its just cause I didn't use them :P

Originally Posted by John_01

Maybe i missed something, but when did you get the Eibach springs fitted? Do you have any b4 and after pics for comparison?


I have been looking at headers too. But there are some issues: Is it suitable for the 2.5L engine rather than the 3.0L in the USA? Can you get O2 sims that will work without throwing codes on the ECU? Possible issues with fitting the headers on a RHD car? Will there be any advantage without some type of ECU tuning?

Only got the eibachs done on Saturday! The ride is definitely a lot lower than stock, but still quite 'high' because of the small 17s.. if you look at some of the front on shots of my car you can notice the drop. I will try find some before and after pics!
To answer your questions:
- Yep it's suitable for the 2.5L if you get 2.5L specific ones.
- Yep you can get O2 sims, and these are already sold as a package by some vendors
- No possible fitting issues on our car
- Yep advantages even without ECU tuning. One of the biggest advantages comes from the automatic removal of our primary cats (because they are integrated into the headers) but I'm not too keen on running with just secondaries (I'll have to check NSW laws) so might add high flow cats before the secondaries.

Originally Posted by kaishang

why torment yourself with 19" wheels?

For da respect =)

Originally Posted by Samoht

I considered stock shocks with Eibachs, but I am glad I didn't the ride will be very floaty. Go with Koni FSDs, you wont even know your running 19" low profiles.

Yeh Koni FSDs are my next choice, especially if I can't get the funds together. Considering I already have the Eibach springs the logical thing is to put in the Konis BUT I don't think it can compare to a good quality coilover setup... was looking at the KW V2 by default but am now leaning towards the AST 4100 w/ swift springs.

[Jeef Beef]

Originally Posted by bmroxm5

Tyres
My near bald stock continental runflats were craphouse. I just wish I had decent rubber on the day, it would of given me much higher corner exit speeds and grip is especially important when you've only got 160killer wasps at the fly. Got a set of 19s landing soonish and looking forward to the fatter 235/265 rubber I'll be riding on so glad that this problem won't be around for too long!

Suspension
Stock shocks with eibach springs. The ride is still just as comfortable, no scrubbing on stock 17s for those that are interested. As for how it rides, WAY too floaty over those wisemens ferry undulations at higher speeds. The car was really bouncing around in between the corners and definitely the second most annoying thing of the car. It just never really settled and I can't wait till I can afford a high quality set of coilovers so I can adjust the rebound settings.
As a a part of suspension/handling I didn't really feel the need for swaybars at this stage, the stock ones keeping bodyroll in check quite nicely! Later on though slightly larger (perhaps UUC) sways front and rear would firmen things up, but for now I reckon there's more effective things I can splash my hard-earned on for better results.

Power
No surprise here, great for getting around town but with the N52 you really need to be in the right gear for meaningful acceleration AND plan single lane overtaking VERY carefully. A tune (in the form of active autowerkes or OE tunning) will come in the next few months with the ubiquitous air box (perhaps aFe) accompanying it. I'd love to get headers as well but it's hard to find ones that aren't super expensive (like supersprint) or ones that actually fit properly (aka OBX which require modifications to get them to fit).

Stock runflats really aren't up to the job on a damp day such as Sunday - a set of Advans is DEFINITELY the next big spend for me.

Not sure about increasing to 19s though, that'll improve the steering feel but it is usually detrimental to handling. I can imagine some skipping around on the bumpy sections of road.

Power wise, is OE the one with throttle remapping? If that's the case, it's the way to go.

Also slightly OT, but since I'm posting about power here, I might as well mention it. We were discussing the torque numbers from my N54 Procede but never finished the discussion - before I went to buy it I did quite a bit of research on the forums comparing dyno graphs from the US. Here's an example of a car modded with DCIs and running on 98RON:



That's 377.87 lb/ft of torque atw, which converts to 511nm atw. Assuming a 15% drivetrain loss, that's about 600nm at the crank...but being conservative and taking the average from other dynos I've found, I think 580nm at the crank is a safe number

Originally Posted by SBC

As for power.. well. uh. GO N46N... lol. Have to say though, i was surprised at my engines willingness. It was enough for our purposes and was probably not as pant soiling an experience as a tuned N54 would have been. Surprised I made some of the overtakes I did too.

You don't mention brakes? Maybe you didn't go hard enough.

Yeh man I was in front of you. Those were some TIGHT overtakes you were making.

[sbce90]

Originally Posted by Jeef Beef

Yeh man I was in front of you. Those were some TIGHT overtakes you were making.

Well.. I made it. [this time at least anyway]

[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

Originally Posted by John_01

Do you have any b4 and after pics for comparison?

Here's a crappy pic I whipped up for comparison purposes. The Eibach drop is definitely lower than stock and slightly lower than the M Sports Pack, although it may not look it due to the sexy 19s the M Sports have. Btw the Wine Red Indigo E92 is my friend that was supposed to come on Sunday but he slept in the lazy c#nt.

Originally Posted by Jeef Beef

Stock runflats really aren't up to the job on a damp day such as Sunday - a set of Advans is DEFINITELY the next big spend for me.

Not sure about increasing to 19s though, that'll improve the steering feel but it is usually detrimental to handling. I can imagine some skipping around on the bumpy sections of road.

Power wise, is OE the one with throttle remapping? If that's the case, it's the way to go.

OE does have throttle remapping I believe. About $400 USD I think and the gain is about 6kw. Doesn't sound like much but every little bit helps!

Yep I understand 19s aren't the ideal handling choice BUT with 235/265 rubber, they will be a big improvement over stock regardless of rim diameter.
I'd love to have 18s as track rims or drive day rims, but that's not going to happen for a while (helloo Volk TE37s). I was going to track the car soon as well for kicks and was going to put some semi slicks on my stockies (hopefully 235 wide)

[John_01]

^^ Thats a significant difference. Looking back at some pics from the pre-meet it really was a lot higher. I guess when I saw it parked on the grassy field it wasn't as obvious. New wheels should set off the look really well.

Putting track tyres on the existing 17" seems a good idea. I also have a set of 17x8 rims with 235/45/17, but mine are not dedicated track tyres. It is probably one of the least expensive fitments and allows you to rotate front to rear. The non-staggered tyre setup should reduce understeer too.

[Ninjaoz]

thanks for sharing your thoughts mate!

do you mind if i ask you where did you get your eibach spring? did you get it locally or from US? ive been looking to change my springs cos stock OEM springs sit rather high and kinda looks odd with my newly upgraded 193M wheels.

got quoted for a set of kW sports spring for around $1,500 fitted from this place at Taren Point!! what a rip off.

[johnnydad]

Sounds like with all the bouncing around between bumps that a decent set of shock matched to the springs are the absolute first priority.

I suppose if your tyres are bald you need to upgrade but I've tended to find money is better spent on quality rubber rather than size. Of course if you can afford the good stuff on the 19's, all the better

The most horrid BMW 3er I drove was a BMW-preferred 325i sedan on stock suspension with mixed 18's - it had 35,000km up admittedly but the wheels and tyres (RFT RE050As) appeared to wreck the ride and body control, making it feel harsh yet badly underdamped. As John01 alludes to, I'd be cautious about putting mixed tyres on a BMW unless the suspension was tuned specifically (e.g. firmer at the rear) for that configuration or you will end up with too much understeer.

[Stuart@BMRAutowerkes]

Originally Posted by Ninja333

thanks for sharing your thoughts mate!

do you mind if i ask you where did you get your eibach spring? did you get it locally or from US? ive been looking to change my springs cos stock OEM springs sit rather high and kinda looks odd with my newly upgraded 193M wheels.

got quoted for a set of kW sports spring for around $1,500 fitted from this place at Taren Point!! what a rip off.

No probs mate, I got my springs off eBay from a seller called 'kuruma motoring', I got it from them because they also had springs for an Evo 8 so I bought two sets at once (for my gf's car) to save on freight. Total paid was $780 to my door.
Then they were $300 to fit... slightly more than I expected but they did take a lot longer than other cars.

Originally Posted by johnnydad

Sounds like with all the bouncing around between bumps that a decent set of shock matched to the springs are the absolute first priority.

I suppose if your tyres are bald you need to upgrade but I've tended to find money is better spent on quality rubber rather than size. Of course if you can afford the good stuff on the 19's, all the better

As John01 alludes to, I'd be cautious about putting mixed tyres on a BMW unless the suspension was tuned specifically (e.g. firmer at the rear) for that configuration or you will end up with too much understeer.

Well for city driving, upgrading the shocks don't come up as a first priority, it's only when really exploiting the wonderful rear-drive chassis that the shocks show their shortcomings. Driving around town, even 'enthusiastically' around town, the stock shocks are fine and the ride is still very comfortable.

Yeh I'm aware fat 265 rubber on the back might promote understeer... as for tyres, I was probably going to go with Continental ExtremeContact DW from Tirerack, they have got some good reviews, are a little less noisy than the Yokohama Advans plus with better tread life.
Tirerack sells them for $834 USD and shipping is about $220, you can't get better rubber on Aussie soil for that much money!
To counter the understeer I will dial in some camber on the fronts and perhaps add some sway bars to keep things in check.