[brentseay]

Hey all,

I'm curious. How much could you get out of the 3.0L NA? Such as camshafts, different pistons, etc. Then, add the flash tune for the twins.

Has anyone begun doing these types of mods? Everyone seems stuck on flash mods and I haven't seen many NA mods besides intake/exhaust. Or is the car still too new?

Update: Rephrased the original post

Brent

[onesuperboi]

Say what?

[brentseay]

Originally Posted by onesuperboi

Say what?

The old 318i M44 1.9L you could take to 2.1L with a crankshaft swap and some new pistons. The 325i you could build up. You could swap out intake manifolds, etc.

Has anyone tried to actually build the 3.0L engine into 3.2L or similar? More to modding the performance than just throwing xbox-style firmware updates at the car is all I'm saying.

Brent

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by brentseay

The old 318i M44 1.9L you could take to 2.1L with a crankshaft swap and some new pistons. The 325i you could build up. You could swap out intake manifolds, etc.

Has anyone tried to actually build the 3.0L engine into 3.2L or similar? More to modding the performance than just throwing xbox-style firmware updates at the car is all I'm saying.

Brent

No. Did you see anything like that here? Most folks focus on bolt on not internals and nothing is really readily available for the n54 to upgrade pistons, cranks, rods.

[MF80]

Originally Posted by brentseay

Hey all,

I'm curious. How much could you get out of the 3.0L NA? Then, add the twin flash tunes. Such as camshafts, different pistons, etc.

Has anyone begun doing these types of mods? Everyone seems stuck on flash mods and I haven't seen many NA mods besides intake/exhaust. Or is the car still too new?

Brent

I'm so hella confused ...

[balance]

Originally Posted by JsTech

I'm so hella confused ...

uh whats so confusing about it?
i havent seen anyone really mess with the internals of our engines as of yet..

[iBoost]

Yeah haven't heard of any company messing with internals or anything like that.

I bet HPF already looked into it, if they're going to make these n54s beasts.

[Penn999]

+1

[tmo24]

Honestly, I understand since I came from a world of building an NA mustang. But with a 335, having a tune is the best hp per dollar and there is nothing else out there that comes close. Getting 80 wheel hp for roughly $500 is unheard of with an NA engine. And when I think of possibly doing heads, cam, etc, the cost per hp would be astronomical compared to the cost of a tune. And then worrying about warranty issues..... its easy to take a tune out.

[Ghines1279]

racing Dynamics sells internals for the n54. They have a sweet, body kit too.

[07'335iAlpine]

Originally Posted by tmo24

Honestly, I understand since I came from a world of building an NA mustang. But with a 335, having a tune is the best hp per dollar and there is nothing else out there that comes close. Getting 80 wheel hp for roughly $500 is unheard of with an NA engine. And when I think of possibly doing heads, cam, etc, the cost per hp would be astronomical compared to the cost of a tune. And then worrying about warranty issues..... its easy to take a tune out.

Op i don't think anyone has gone this route or even considered going this route. We are after all talking about a F/I car. N/A Mods as one said before would not help a great deal if even at all. The only positives to messing with the actual block, head and internals would be to strengthen it too endure high HP output, and to see if higher numbers could be reached with bigger turbos. as of now it seems alot of peeps are still trying to max out the stock turbos; and some are having their stock turbos sent in and upgraded. some have been pushing out impressive numbers for the n54 being still stock. I Think anything after 500Hp, and well start seeing people fiddle with the internals. it would be nice to see the limits of this block and head. But as far as just messing with internals and hoping that a flash/piggy will yield u more than what people are already getting would be a bit farfetched to believe.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by tmo24

Honestly, I understand since I came from a world of building an NA mustang. But with a 335, having a tune is the best hp per dollar and there is nothing else out there that comes close. Getting 80 wheel hp for roughly $500 is unheard of with an NA engine. And when I think of possibly doing heads, cam, etc, the cost per hp would be astronomical compared to the cost of a tune. And then worrying about warranty issues..... its easy to take a tune out.

you aren't worrying about warranty issues if you have changed the internals.

[Trojan4evr]

take a look at VAC motor sports. They have alreadu started. they already have a stage 1 and 3 cylinder head.

[07'335iAlpine]

Originally Posted by Trojan4evr

take a look at VAC motor sports. They have alreadu started. they already have a stage 1 and 3 cylinder head.

This is interesting......

[tscdennab]

It would be interesting if some tuning company would dare to increase the engine displacement via new forged rods/pistons to something like 3200cmc and lower the compression ratio a bit. With upgraded turbo housings the engine may be capable of some big numbers.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Actually, internals for the N54 have been available for quite some time.

About a year ago I asked a German tuner about this and he told me that he could procure the forged low compression pistons that Mahle uses on the Alpina B3 (S) Biturbo. The lower compression (9,4:1) will not give you more power (less actually), but the lowered compression ratio will decrease the danger of knocking.

The same is also available from the Austrian company Pankl Racing. They have two brands, CP and Carrillo. CP is able to manufacture the forged pistons - either as an upgraded stock piece with the same compression ratio but sturdier materials, with the above mentioned Alpina compression ratio or a custom compression ratio that you can choose yourself. VAC Motorsports sell them under this link for around 1000 USD.

Under the brand Carrillo, Pankl is able to manufacture upgraded rods - either in steel or (much more expensive) in titanium. The former are again sturdier than the stock pieces and may be an option for very high powered N54 engines, the latter improve the revving characteristics of the engine and are even stronger. I don't know the price of these, though.

A friend of mine is already running the upgraded low compression pistons and rods for some time, and I'll most likely install them at the beginning of next year in my car.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Juiced46]

Originally Posted by 07'335iAlpine

We are after all talking about a F/I car. N/A Mods as one said before would not help a great deal if even at all. The only positives to messing with the actual block, head and internals would be to strengthen it too endure high HP output, and to see if higher numbers could be reached with bigger turbos.

This statement is 100% incorrect. Changing the the internals of the engine will by far help the car tremendously! Ported Heads, custom ground cams, stroker motor, will all increase power, would also enable you to make more power on less boost, and increase spool time. Just because its FI, doesnt mean changing internal parts isnt going to help. Now as far as parts availability. Im sure alot of stuff would have to be custom made and exepensive.

Here is an example of a similar situation but on a different vehicle.

I build late model mustangs on the side.

I have a built stock cubic inch bottom end in my cobra, with stock heads/cams/intake and a 76mm single turbo. My car @ the time of this comparison made 740rwhp@ 25psi through a 6 spd.

I built another Cobra @ the same time, same exact bottom end. However this car had fully ported heads, valves and all upgraded valvetrain. Custom billet cams spec'd out for this particular setup and a ported intake manifold. Car runs the same 76mm turbo, on the same dyno, with the same tuner. This car made 860rwhp@ only 21psi! So that was a 120rwhp increase running 4 less psi! PLUS the car was much more responsive and spooled quicker then mine did as well.

So yes, upgrading the internals/valvetrain on an FI car is very very beneficial with the correct parts. @ what cost though, that is a different story. The motor in my example alone was over $12,000, and thats for a mustang where parts are much much cheaper and more readily available.

[07'335iAlpine]

Originally Posted by Juiced46

This statement is 100% incorrect. Changing the the internals of the engine will by far help the car tremendously! Ported Heads, custom ground cams, stroker motor, will all increase power, would also enable you to make more power on less boost, and increase spool time. Just because its FI, doesnt mean changing internal parts isnt going to help. Now as far as parts availability. Im sure alot of stuff would have to be custom made and exepensive.

Here is an example of a similar situation but on a different vehicle.

I build late model mustangs on the side.

I have a built stock cubic inch bottom end in my cobra, with stock heads/cams/intake and a 76mm single turbo. My car @ the time of this comparison made 740rwhp@ 25psi through a 6 spd.

I built another Cobra @ the same time, same exact bottom end. However this car had fully ported heads, valves and all upgraded valvetrain. Custom billet cams spec'd out for this particular setup and a ported intake manifold. Car runs the same 76mm turbo, on the same dyno, with the same tuner. This car made 860rwhp@ only 21psi! So that was a 120rwhp increase running 4 less psi! PLUS the car was much more responsive and spooled quicker then mine did as well.

So yes, upgrading the internals/valvetrain on an FI car is very very beneficial with the correct parts. @ what cost though, that is a different story. The motor in my example alone was over $12,000, and thats for a mustang where parts are much much cheaper and more readily available.

Lol, so unless you have a good chunk of change saved up and want to throw an extra 15k-20k by all means change the internals. Its obvious with better internals car will run stronger but like you said cost will be a different story. So in my opinion unless your building a drag car and have crazy wads of cash. then sure start porting your heads. lol but bang for the buck is what i was referring too. i think your interpretation of my statement was misunderstood. although it would help to build the internals it wont make or break the engine under 400-450hp. and if you have 20k+ plus and a 335i i don't think one would be looking into going crazy on a 3 rather than just getting a true sports car such as a GTR, Ford GT, ZR-1, so many other options. As for me ill try and stick to the bolt-on mods and tunes for added power. I think theres been enough guinea pig 3's already thats its safe to say they are "SAFE" with stock internals and all the bolt ons.

[Juiced46]

Originally Posted by 07'335iAlpine

Lol, so unless you have a good chunk of change saved up and want to throw an extra 15k-20k by all means change the internals. Its obvious with better internals car will run stronger but like you said cost will be a different story. So in my opinion unless your building a drag car and have crazy wads of cash. then sure start porting your heads. lol but bang for the buck is what i was referring too. i think your interpretation of my statement was misunderstood. although it would help to build the internals it wont make or break the engine under 400-450hp. and if you have 20k+ plus and a 335i i don't think one would be looking into going crazy on a 3 rather than just getting a true sports car such as a GTR, Ford GT, ZR-1, so many other options. As for me ill try and stick to the bolt-on mods and tunes for added power. I think theres been enough guinea pig 3's already thats its safe to say they are "SAFE" with stock internals and all the bolt ons.

I dont understand what is so funny about my reply? First off not everyone wants to just do bolt ons. Some people want more, and would be willing to drop 20k into their engine to get that extra performance that you cant get from bolt ons. You don't need to have a Ford GT, GTR or any other supercar to drop that kind of cash in mods. Just because its a 3 doesn't mean anything. People do this all the time to STi's, EVO's, Mustangs, etc etc, you dont have to go out and buy a supercar if you are thinking about spending some cash. Not everyone wants to buy an old man Vette, or can afford a $150,000 supercar, the taxes, and insurance. Instead they gradually build it up over time. Best bang for the buck, yes tune, filters, exhaust, DPs etc.

Heck on a setup on my cobra, a set of custom ground cams would gain me 75-100rwhp.

I have customers all the time that do not hesitate to drop 20, 30, 40 even 50k into their mustangs over the period of a few years time to get it to where they want it to be. Those cars will also put a hurting on a GTR, GT, ZR1 etc etc. for less money. You have to pay to play. If all you want is a few extra HP, then bolt ons it is. For the not so average guy that is willing to go the extra step, its going to cost money, no matter what type of vehicle it is.

The OP wanted to know if people were doing things such as strokers, cams, etc, you chimed in it wouldn't make a difference. I corrected your statement because it is 100% untrue, and this is how false information gets spread around all over the internet. How do you know he doesnt have some cash to spend and wants to push his car further then the other 99.9% of the people on the board that are stuck on Boltons?

Read what you wrote again

"N/A Mods as one said before would not help a great deal if even at all. The only positives to messing with the actual block, head and internals would be to strengthen it too endure high HP output"

So how should I have interpreted this? Stick to bolt ons because everything else would be a waste?

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Juiced46

I dont understand what is so funny about my reply? First off not everyone wants to just do bolt ons. Some people want more, and would be willing to drop 20k into their engine to get that extra performance that you cant get from bolt ons. You don't need to have a Ford GT, GTR or any other supercar to drop that kind of cash in mods. Just because its a 3 doesn't mean anything. People do this all the time to STi's, EVO's, Mustangs, etc etc, you dont have to go out and buy a supercar if you are thinking about spending some cash. Not everyone wants to buy an old man Vette, or can afford a $150,000 supercar, the taxes, and insurance. Instead they gradually build it up over time. Best bang for the buck, yes tune, filters, exhaust, DPs etc.

Heck on a setup on my cobra, a set of custom ground cams would gain me 75-100rwhp.

I have customers all the time that do not hesitate to drop 20, 30, 40 even 50k into their mustangs over the period of a few years time to get it to where they want it to be. Those cars will also put a hurting on a GTR, GT, ZR1 etc etc. for less money. You have to pay to play. If all you want is a few extra HP, then bolt ons it is. For the not so average guy that is willing to go the extra step, its going to cost money, no matter what type of vehicle it is.

The OP wanted to know if people were doing things such as strokers, cams, etc, you chimed in it wouldn't make a difference. I corrected your statement because it is 100% untrue, and this is how false information gets spread around all over the internet. How do you know he doesnt have some cash to spend and wants to push his car further then the other 99.9% of the people on the board that are stuck on Boltons?

Read what you wrote again

"N/A Mods as one said before would not help a great deal if even at all. The only positives to messing with the actual block, head and internals would be to strengthen it too endure high HP output"

So how should I have interpreted this? Stick to bolt ons because everything else would be a waste?

dont mind him, experiene will teach him otherwise if he ever goes farther than your standard bolt-ons.

Here is a great example of what you just posted but using a boosted 6cyl BMW motor.

posted this in another thread

BavSol head and cams vs stock head/cams

huge difference all around

======================

BavSol cams idling, obviously aggressive:

dyno charts showing gains, also aggressive :

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I always wondered if anyone was going to make some aggressive cams for this car.

That E36 sounds badass.

[e93WhiteonRed]

It's Obvious that Juiced 46 knows what he's talking about and some others simply dont. I too spent a lot of my time building mustangs. Ended up with a 331 stroker with ported heads, port matched intake and headers, 3 angle valve job and a cam that I spent more time stressing over the duration and lobe separation angle figures than I'd like to admit. if I had forced induction - forget about it - it would have been nasty! Why? The easier, and more efficient an engine can pump air in and out, the more power. It's simply an air pump! If you have 25 pounds of boost running through a garden hose to get to your cylinder, imagine what a fire hose to your cylinder would be like with the same boost?