[Glowin]

Just curious if anyone knows (or if Cobb can share, if it's not a trade secret ), since we heard from GIAC over and over again that the car can't be reliably flashed with a handheld unit if no external stable power supply is present, like at their dealers, hence the way they do it, and it's not because they have concerns about misuse of their software if they have handheld flashers.

Although I wondered about that since in Europe, Evolve has been able to flash the 335 gasoline models no problem (though for some reason, they've not been able to do so on our cars yet).

[dc5_champ88]

good question!

[vasillalov]

From my experience with GIAC, flashing takes about 20-30 minutes, which also includes some routines for checking to make sure the flash took in.

What sometimes does take a long time 1-2 hours, is obtaining a complete ECU memory dump. This happens when there is no GIAC flash file readily available for your firmware release and ecu part number.

My understanding is that the battery charger is needed to keep constant voltage on the battery. Voltage drops can cause the flashing process to be interrupted.

I would love to find out how COBB managed to get around this problem. Perhaps their AP is able to communicate with the ECU at a faster rate which means that it needs less time to perform the flashing. Perhaps their flash only reflashes certain portions of the ECU... I know that GIAC modifies 69 different maps in our ECUs.

[badluckm3]

Just go to sears and get a trickle charger. Great $30 investment. Used mine many times.

[techlogik]

A battery in the car???

The only reason GIAC has the local dealers hook up the external battery charger pack is because you might be sitting there for 2 hours waiting for a dump, then send it to GIAC,let them work on it, then send it back, flash it...all taking 20 minutes sometimes to do the dump/flash etc..

The car battery is renowned to drain with the ignition on these cars...so it is just there to maintain the voltage/battery from draining.

Or maybe I just don't understand the whole, you need a external battery thing to flash a car when the car has one already??? I think GIAC is just using that as a safety mechanism?

[Mr. 5]

IMO, I think the main reason is because COBB doesn't load as many parameters as GIAC does.
I would think that COBB is somewhat comparable to the Shark Injector.

What would be interesting is if a battery died in the middle of the flash.
What would happen?
Anyone want to try it? lol

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

IMO, I think the main reason is because COBB doesn't load as many parameters as GIAC does.
I would think that COBB is somewhat comparable to the Shark Injector.

What would be interesting is if a battery died in the middle of the flash.
What would happen?
Anyone want to try it? lol

I think as long as the stock ROM was downloaded and saved properly, there should be no issue recovering if god forbid the battery died during a map upload.

[twinship]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

IMO, I think the main reason is because COBB doesn't load as many parameters as GIAC does.

I had the same thought. Does anyone know?

If true, it would suggest that GIAC is a more "complete" tune, right?

[COBB Tuning]

While I cannot share the parameters that we are using for the BMW AccessTUNER software at this time (not publicly available yet), I thought I would share the levels of access we provide on our other platforms:

Nissan GT-R
Subaru STI
Mitsubishi EVO X
Mazda MAZDASPEED3

Judging the quality or completeness of the tune by the amount of time it takes to flash the car is an inaccurate metric. Dyno graphs, data logs, and driveability in different atmospheric conditions would provide much more useful data when comparing tuning solutions.

Thanks!

Gary

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

IMO, I think the main reason is because COBB doesn't load as many parameters as GIAC does.
I would think that COBB is somewhat comparable to the Shark Injector.

What would be interesting is if a battery died in the middle of the flash.
What would happen?
Anyone want to try it? lol

[enrita]

Giac also require a certain amperage for the charger while flashing. I saw my flashing fail twice when my shop hooked up a portable charger that did not provide enough juice. When than a second was hooked up the flashing succeeded.

[battlehawk1025]

I believe it's because if the voltage drops it can brick the dme and render it useless and need replacing

[etiliko]

All new generation cars absorb MANY amperes with key switched to ON.
A complete ROM dump on a x35i take over an hour, a complete write 13 minutes maybe?
If the voltage drop under 12 volts the process can go bad, and the ecu can be bricked.
RECOVERY of a bricked MSD80/81 however is possible.
So, external power supply in my opinion is ever raccomended.

[EDM92]

I have 2 subwoofers and 2 amps in my trunk that turn on when the rest of the electricity in the car turns on (when I push the key in). The pull a lot of power from the battery and I don't have a capacitor. I'm worried that if I do get a cobb in the future, my car may die while flashing. Is this something to be worried about?

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by badluckm3

Just go to sears and get a trickle charger. Great $30 investment. Used mine many times.

Yeah no. You need a 40-60A charger for this. Not cheap. Trickle chargers are only good for keeping your battery charged while it is sitting and there is (relatively) no current draw.

[Gimlet]

Originally Posted by BMWorNOTHING

I have 2 subwoofers and 2 amps in my trunk that turn on when the rest of the electricity in the car turns on (when I push the key in). The pull a lot of power from the battery and I don't have a capacitor. I'm worried that if I do get a cobb in the future, my car may die while flashing. Is this something to be worried about?

I've got a 500w amp in my trunk that turns on with just pushing in the key. When I first went to install the AP, my ROM wasn't supported, so naturally I automatically went to download to send to COBB. In my excitement, I forgot to switchoff the DRL Halo's, so they stayed on, in addition to my amp, for the 50 or so minutes it took to download the ROM (whoops - wasn't sure if messing with the stalk to turn them off would screw anything up, so I didn't touch it)). My battery low indicator came on with about 3 minutes to spare..thankfully I made it through w/o issue, started her up, and drove around for about half an hour to ensure I had good charge back in there. Had I had the halo's off, I prob would have been absolutely fine regardless.

When I got my ROM back and did the install it took maybe just a bit over 10 minutes. Halo's off this time around. No problems there.

This is on my stock nearly 3 year old battery on a car that's driven maybe 2-3 times a week. You should be fine if you take the right precautionary measures. If you want to be completely safe, get a charger...you might not need it however based on my experience (if you have a strong battery). I'm not advocating going w/o a charger and saying you will be fine, just stating that in my case it was okay.

[BzzzBom]

Originally Posted by COBB Tuning

While I cannot share the parameters that we are using for the BMW AccessTUNER software at this time (not publicly available yet), I thought I would share the levels of access we provide on our other platforms:

Nissan GT-R
Subaru STI
Mitsubishi EVO X
Mazda MAZDASPEED3

Judging the quality or completeness of the tune by the amount of time it takes to flash the car is an inaccurate metric. Dyno graphs, data logs, and driveability in different atmospheric conditions would provide much more useful data when comparing tuning solutions.

Thanks!

Gary

This statement makes be very suspicious of the Cobb tune. Before GIAC I had the SSTT piggyback which is a very simple "tune." The dyno showed HP and TQ increases and the driveability seemed OK.
GIAC modifies about 70 maps in the ECU. How many does Cobb?

[boom]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

IMO, I think the main reason is because COBB doesn't load as many parameters as GIAC does.
I would think that COBB is somewhat comparable to the Shark Injector.

What would be interesting is if a battery died in the middle of the flash.
What would happen?
Anyone want to try it? lol

I have to say Mr 5 that I'm really disappointed in this post. It's complete speculation with no basis in fact of any kind. You're a mod and a very experienced n54 owner with a lot of history so your comments carry a lot of weight. I don't own an AP but am planning on one so I can't say anything definitive about it but I doubt you can either. I don't know the answer to the OP's question and I do think COBB didn't really address it in their post. I think you should reevaluate this post and its potential consequences.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by boom

I have to say Mr 5 that I'm really disappointed in this post. It's complete speculation with no basis in fact of any kind. You're a mod and a very experienced n54 owner with a lot of history so your comments carry a lot of weight. I don't own an AP but am planning on one so I can't say anything definitive about it but I doubt you can either. I don't know the answer to the OP's question and I do think COBB didn't really address it in their post. I think you should reevaluate this post and its potential consequences.

x2

baseless speculation with no first hand knowledge of product.

On another note, it also seems unfair to ask Cobb to speculate why another flash can or cannot do something as Cobb may not have intimate knowledge of that product since they did not design it.

Jmo

[atlharry]

Originally Posted by dmurray14

Yeah no. You need a 40-60A charger for this. Not cheap. Trickle chargers are only good for keeping your battery charged while it is sitting and there is (relatively) no current draw.

Damn, how many amps does this car pull while in 'acc' mode?

[EDM92]

Originally Posted by Gimlet

I've got a 500w amp in my trunk that turns on with just pushing in the key. When I first went to install the AP, my ROM wasn't supported, so naturally I automatically went to download to send to COBB. In my excitement, I forgot to switchoff the DRL Halo's, so they stayed on, in addition to my amp, for the 50 or so minutes it took to download the ROM (whoops - wasn't sure if messing with the stalk to turn them off would screw anything up, so I didn't touch it)). My battery low indicator came on with about 3 minutes to spare..thankfully I made it through w/o issue, started her up, and drove around for about half an hour to ensure I had good charge back in there. Had I had the halo's off, I prob would have been absolutely fine regardless.

When I got my ROM back and did the install it took maybe just a bit over 10 minutes. Halo's off this time around. No problems there.

This is on my stock nearly 3 year old battery on a car that's driven maybe 2-3 times a week. You should be fine if you take the right precautionary measures. If you want to be completely safe, get a charger...you might not need it however based on my experience (if you have a strong battery). I'm not advocating going w/o a charger and saying you will be fine, just stating that in my case it was okay.

This was just the kind of answer I was looking for, thanks so much for the response! I have two 500 watt amps and two 10 inch Alpine Type R's, so it probably takes more power than yours. I left all the lights on for 2 hours the the movie theatre once and all was well, however my subs weren't turned on.

Is it even possible to turn off the DRLs? When I turn all my lights off, the halos still stay on.

Also, what kind of charger would I need, and about how much would it run me? Sorry, but I've never had to use one. This would connect straight to the battery in the trunk to jump it, right?

Thanks in advance .

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by atlharry

Damn, how many amps does this car pull while in 'acc' mode?

I honestly couldn't tell you, I just know that the recommended "charger" for the newer cars is at least 60A. Remember, we're not just charging the battery, we're powering everything that's running too. Whereas a trickle charger can take its time filling up the last 1-2% of a 99% charge and keeping it there, when you're programming you need a charger to power the car as well as keep the battery charged.