Intake dyno comparison - stock with Helene drop-in vs Injen vs Mr.5 with K&N Apollo

tscdennab · 02-09-2011, 08:17 AM

First graph is stock - 316whp (corrected)

Second graph is with Injen (new) - 327whp (corrected, the graph has uncorrected results)

Third graph is with my Mr. 5-like intake with K&N Apollo filter - 334whp (corrected) ! from here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480554

Same dyno, same car, same mods, corrected numbers, only the intakes differ between the 3 runs.

The other mods:

GIAC Stage 2
OEM catless downpipes (welded pipes instead of cats)
Wagner intercooler

Gains:

+7whp over Injen
+18whp vs stock box with Helene drop-in filter.

Former_Boosted_IS · 02-09-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscdennab

First graph is stock - 316whp (corrected)

Second graph is with Injen (new) - 327whp (corrected, the graph has uncorrected results)

Third graph is with my Mr. 5-like intake with K&N Apollo filter - 334whp (corrected) ! from here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480554

Same dyno, same car, same mods, corrected numbers, only the intakes differ between the 3 runs.

The other mods:

GIAC Stage 2
OEM catless downpipes (welded pipes instead of cats)
Wagner intercooler

Gains:

+7whp over Injen
+18whp vs stock box with Helene drop-in filter.

Out of curiousity, did you log anything? Any idea if boost was identical?

tscdennab · 02-09-2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Out of curiousity, did you log anything? Any idea if boost was identical?

I logged the boost today (with the Mr.5+K&N Apollo intake), but not the other times. But on the Rixter boost gauge, today I had max. 16.3psi and with the Injen I had max. 16.7psi if I remember correctly (or maybe 16.8).

Former_Boosted_IS · 02-09-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscdennab

I logged the boost today (with the Mr.5 intake), but not the other times. But on the Rixter boost gauge, today I had max. 16.3psi and with the Injen I had max. 16.7psi if I remember correctly.

Nothing on those dyno runs though? Any logs of WGDC?

tscdennab · 02-09-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Nothing on those dyno runs though? Any logs of WGDC?

Didn't cross my mind to log this...sorry.

Former_Boosted_IS · 02-09-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscdennab

Didn't cross my mind to log this...sorry.

The dynos are nice, but it is always tough to say what is causing power increases, especially on a flash where loads are targeted. Just my opinion, but there is zero chance an intake will give 18 rwhp on this car with all else equal.

boom · 02-09-2011, 06:03 PM

No no no, this can't be true. BMW has spent tens of thousands of dollars designing the airbox. It can not be improved upon.

Lol.

Proper Motion LLC · 02-09-2011, 06:14 PM

2nd graph looks like more than 327HP. More like somewhere between 330-335.

tscdennab · 02-09-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rysandro

2nd graph looks like more than 327HP. More like somewhere between 330-335.

It's uncorrected (you can see it lacks the "WC" at the parameter description in the lower left corner). Corrected was 327whp.

ZTUNER · 02-09-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boom

No no no, this can't be true. BMW has spent tens of thousands of dollars designing the airbox. It can not be improved upon.

Lol.

Actually the bmw intake looks fairly restrictive imo. i was surprised my lid off test did not yeild more. Maybe need to get rid of it completely.

Harry

infinitekidM2C · 02-09-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boom

No no no, this can't be true. BMW has spent tens of thousands of dollars designing the airbox. It can not be improved upon.

Lol.

Yes; we know they are concerned with Horsepower only...their tune is better too fyi

secretsquirrel · 02-09-2011, 11:24 PM

I wish you had done a dyno of stock with a aftermarket drop in filter

s.myrr · 02-10-2011, 01:15 AM

I read a thread somewhere here with a stock car and drop in filter shootout... none provided any gains (according to them anyways). They noted an increase in throttle response, but that's about it. Probably need a tune to realize some gains on the dyno.

Alext · 02-10-2011, 03:03 AM

Interestingly enough the first part of that test showed significant gains with a helene vs stock and K&N drop-in filters and even more with the air-box top removed. The only differences was that the 2nd test was done in hotter temps and new filters. The 1st part of the test used a filter that only had 1000 miles on it. Also there were no results in the 2nd test that compared an open airbox with the filters...

I still like the believe there is some validity in the first part of the test

tscdennab · 02-10-2011, 03:43 AM

There ARE gains with a drop-in filter vs stock filter. I gained 4whp on this dyno between stock filter and Helene drop-in, on the very same dyno session, with the only modification to my car at that time being the BMW Performance Power Kit. There is a thread on this forum with the dyno chart.

Alext · 02-10-2011, 08:07 AM

Yeah I agree. When tuned you are going to see some benefit as more air is passing through. +4hp with the PPK sounds realistic.

I watched the K&N demo with the ball on youtube. I know it's clever marketing but it makes sense. With the stock paper filter not enough air is flowed to hold the ball up. With no filter and with K&N enough air is flowed. How much difference a slight restriction makes at stock boost I don't know but at higher levels Im sure the engine enjoys better breathing.

ESS tuning found the best results with a drop-in filter on their flash tunes FWIW.

02-09-2011, 08:17 AM	#1
tscdennab Banned 156 Rep 1,809 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Europe iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW [6.24]	Intake dyno comparison - stock with Helene drop-in vs Injen vs Mr.5 with K&N Apollo First graph is stock - 316whp (corrected) Second graph is with Injen (new) - 327whp (corrected, the graph has uncorrected results) Third graph is with my Mr. 5-like intake with K&N Apollo filter - 334whp (corrected) ! from here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480554 Same dyno, same car, same mods, corrected numbers, only the intakes differ between the 3 runs. The other mods: GIAC Stage 2 OEM catless downpipes (welded pipes instead of cats) Wagner intercooler Gains: +7whp over Injen +18whp vs stock box with Helene drop-in filter. Attached Images
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02-09-2011, 06:03 PM	#7
boom My X5d tows my spec miata to the track. 77 Rep 1,254 Posts Drives: 2010 X5 35d Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	No no no, this can't be true. BMW has spent tens of thousands of dollars designing the airbox. It can not be improved upon. Lol.
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02-09-2011, 06:14 PM	#8
Proper Motion LLC Custom Powder Coater 149 Rep 2,784 Posts Drives: White 335i Sedan Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Orange County CA iTrader: (2)	2nd graph looks like more than 327HP. More like somewhere between 330-335. __________________ www.propermotion714.com
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02-09-2011, 11:24 PM	#12
secretsquirrel Colonel 196 Rep 2,344 Posts Drives: f80 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Far North Dallas iTrader: (2)	I wish you had done a dyno of stock with a aftermarket drop in filter
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02-10-2011, 01:15 AM	#13
s.myrr Lieutenant 13 Rep 499 Posts Drives: AW 335i E90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (1)	I read a thread somewhere here with a stock car and drop in filter shootout... none provided any gains (according to them anyways). They noted an increase in throttle response, but that's about it. Probably need a tune to realize some gains on the dyno.
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02-10-2011, 03:03 AM	#14
Alext Banned 152 Rep 2,042 Posts Drives: B M W Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everest iTrader: (2)	Interestingly enough the first part of that test showed significant gains with a helene vs stock and K&N drop-in filters and even more with the air-box top removed. The only differences was that the 2nd test was done in hotter temps and new filters. The 1st part of the test used a filter that only had 1000 miles on it. Also there were no results in the 2nd test that compared an open airbox with the filters... I still like the believe there is some validity in the first part of the test Last edited by Alext; 02-10-2011 at 03:10 AM..
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02-10-2011, 03:43 AM	#15
tscdennab Banned 156 Rep 1,809 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Europe iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW [6.24]	There ARE gains with a drop-in filter vs stock filter. I gained 4whp on this dyno between stock filter and Helene drop-in, on the very same dyno session, with the only modification to my car at that time being the BMW Performance Power Kit. There is a thread on this forum with the dyno chart. Last edited by tscdennab; 02-10-2011 at 03:54 AM..
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02-10-2011, 08:07 AM	#16
Alext Banned 152 Rep 2,042 Posts Drives: B M W Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everest iTrader: (2)	Yeah I agree. When tuned you are going to see some benefit as more air is passing through. +4hp with the PPK sounds realistic. I watched the K&N demo with the ball on youtube. I know it's clever marketing but it makes sense. With the stock paper filter not enough air is flowed to hold the ball up. With no filter and with K&N enough air is flowed. How much difference a slight restriction makes at stock boost I don't know but at higher levels Im sure the engine enjoys better breathing. ESS tuning found the best results with a drop-in filter on their flash tunes FWIW.
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