[picus]

Hey guys - so it's been confirmed that North American spec cars with the automatic transmission produced between July '06 to December '06 do not have the same air-to-oil cooler as the manual cars, auto trans cars in other countries, AND auto trans cars in North America built *after* Dec '06 with the sports package. So basically if you got an auto trans 335i with the sports package built between ~July '06 (might be as far back as June) through Nov 31 '06, you do not have the same equipment as every other comparably equipped car. The oil cooler is located in the passenger side fender behind the fog light on cars that have it. (see this thread: http://e90post.com/forums/showthread...ght=oil+cooler)

It is interesting to note of the two "overheating" issues I've read (the one on Audiworld and one on e90fanatics) all the cars involved were autos produced between July-Dec '06 with the sports package.

So what I am wondering is do these cars run hotter than manual cars, or auto's with the cooler? It is winter here, and my car runs between 120C-14xC consistently. I have hit 150C a few times (fwiw, 150C is what the manual states is the max allowable oil temp of the 335i). The average temp in Toronto since I bought the car is 1C, so pretty cold. I am wondering how it'll react in 30C weather.

So, if your car fits this description (north american auto with or without spots pack built between july-nov 31 '06) please chime in.

Just so everyone understands:

All manual transmission 335i's worldwide HAVE the air-to-oil cooler
All automatic transmission cars with sports package outside North America HAVE the oil cooler.
All automatic transmission cars with sports package IN North America built after Nov 31, '06 *should* HAVE the oil cooler.
All auto transmission cars with sports pack or without IN North America built between July '06-Nov 31 '06 DO NOT HAVE the oil cooler
All auto transmission cars in North America WITHOUT sports package DO not have the oil cooler.

Oh, I know this is asking a lot but please don't vote if your car is not one of the ones without an oil cooler.

[sflgator]

My car was produced in 11/06, and even with the XEDE, I have not seen a temp higher than 240-250 degrees F.

[picus]

I know you've driven yours hard, so that's good. Have you had any long road trips? The three times I've been over 140C were on *long* drives, not hard ones...just long.

As an aside, does it wig you out at all that your car is missing the cooler? The fact that they re-added it to autos in December says to me that it is needed.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by picus

I know you've driven yours hard, so that's good. Have you had any long road trips? The three times I've been over 140C were on *long* drives, not hard ones...just long.

As an aside, does it wig you out at all that your car is missing the cooler? The fact that they re-added it to autos in December says to me that it is needed.

I drive ~ 20-25k mi./year for my career, and much of that is on the highway, so yes...long 1-3 hr. trips, and no overheating issues at all. No, it doesn't bother me that it doesn't have the cooler; I suppose if I had a problem with it getting too hot, I would inquire about it at my dealer's service dept.

[RiXst3r]

The hottest I got was 255 degrees F. flooring it over and over on a 3 hour trip in the open fields of northern ohio's amish country...(very few cars, as you can imagine It was about 70 degrees F out that day.

As you can see from my sig, my car is AT produced without the oil cooler

I had my oil changed at 1500 miles, and did a "hard" break-in...

I would freak out if my car's oil temp meeter was pegged at 300F ... there is no way that is safe, no matter what the manual says, thats crazy hot...

[picus]

Thanks for the input guys. I have inquired with the dealer; without an actual overheat there isn't much they can do. I spoke with the service manager and he didn't even know what I was talking about when I brought up the air-to-oil cooler, so I decided to see if I could get an answer from BMW. I suppose at this point I will just wait for the car to overheat then bitch it up at the dealership.

It *does* irk me a little that cars produced just one month after mine have cooler my similarly spec'd car doesn't. I'd just like an answer from BMW why that is. They must think the car needs it (since they are now installing it). I think the thing that bothers me the most is that it is not an expensive part, nor is the install difficult; so why omit it from only a few months worth of cars?

Looks like most voters in the poll will be in the 120C range, which seems typical of 335i's with the air-to-oil cooler. I am sure this is normal, but I do wonder if there is a higher instance of seeing temps over 130C without the cooler.

[RiXst3r]

if it needs it, then why does the non ZSP AT 335i still not get it?

There must be something else causing some of the cars to run hotter...

I have tottaly flogged my car since day 1 (its a lease... heh) and I have not seen any temps above 255F... period...

[DrM]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

if it needs it, then why does the non ZSP AT 335i still not get it?

My suspicion is that BMW expects the sport package to be driven more aggressively than the non-sport package.

[picus]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

if it needs it, then why does the non ZSP AT 335i still not get it?

If it doesn't need it, why do they now put it in every model except AT non ZSP in North America only? I see what you're saying, but as a percentage of total sales non-sports package automatic trans 335i's in North America only are probably a really small percentage of all 335i's sold.

As DrM mentioned I suspect that BMW thinks these cars won't be driven as hard (which they probably won't be), but that doesn't change the fact that our cars have ZSP, and still don't have the oil cooler.

I am not refuting your claims of driving the car hard or the temps you're seeing. I am just looking for an answer to this particular question, since it seems rather perplexing that such a small fraction of cars would be sans oil cooler when every other 335i sold outside North America, and all manual 335i's sold anywhere AND all currently produced ATs with ZSP all get the cooler.

[RiXst3r]

I just dont understand how only a select number of cars without the cooler have had overheating problems... There has to be something else going on.

When I first read about the overheating issues, I tried as hard as I could to try to get mine to overheat, flogged the heck out of it, hot lapping it around back roads and such... and I could never get the temp over 255F... no matter how hot or cold the outside temp was.

It would be interesting to try and log engine variables (AFR's, Boost, Temps, Etc..) on cars that have the overheating problem, and on cars that will not heat up (like mine)...

[picus]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

I just dont understand how only a select number of cars without the cooler have had overheating problems... There has to be something else going on.

When I first read about the overheating issues, I tried as hard as I could to try to get mine to overheat, flogged the heck out of it, hot lapping it around back roads and such... and I could never get the temp over 255F... no matter how hot or cold the outside temp was.

It would be interesting to try and log engine variables (AFR's, Boost, Temps, Etc..) on cars that have the overheating problem, and on cars that will not heat up (like mine)...

I agree, that would be interesting. FWIW, the overheats that have been reported are still a little vague. For example, there was a lot of controversy surrounding the whole audiworld thing. It is interesting to note though, that the cars at that track were auto's produced probably in July '06.

The only other report I know of was a guy from e90fanatics who is using the car as a tuner. He said that his stock AT w/paddles and ZSP AT overheated after 3-4 laps around a track, and that he was able to reproduce it.

Originally Posted by 0dough2mnyideas

Yes. This is very true. We have a 335 coupe automatic with paddles. The car overheated after 3-4 hard laps on the track. The Autos have NO OIL COOLER. The standard gearbox does have an oil cooler. We're in the process of fabricating oil coolers for the auto gearbox cars.

Adam

For the most part it looks like almost everyone's temps are in the 110-120c range when operating normally. My car is almost always sitting right on the 120-122C mark too. I only brought this up because I thought it was a weird omision on the july-dec auto zsp cars, and because my car has flirted with the 150c mark more than once now. FWIW, in all the cases where my temp has gone past 140C it was on long drives (over 300km), ambient temp was always below 0c and and I was pretty much just cruising @~120km/h.

In the end it isn't a huge issue. I am sure my dealer could add a cooler if needed, or I could do it aftermarket. Really I am just wondering what the rationale is for not adding it to all cars in the first place.

[BavarianRocket]

Just last week I was driving my AT 335i Sports Package real hard

I started to get alittle concerned when she creeped up to about 265 F... but it cooled back down to 250 soon after.

I bought mine in 10/06... so I am sure I don't have the oil cooler

[picus]

When it hit 265F did you stop driving hard or did it just stop going up at that point? Thanks.

[RiXst3r]

The real question here, is that if this can be reproduced on some cars, why can it not be reproduced on other cars, which also do not have the oil cooler... Seriously, I wish my car would heat up faster... EVERY DAY i drive to work, a 20 minute drive, and by the time I get to work, it isnt even up to 200F yet... in warm weather, it would warm up to 230F by the time i got to work... and if I really ran it hard, I could get to 240-250F... but still, nothing close to overheating...

On long drives, I could drive it hard, and it would warm up to 250F, and then I could back off and cruise, and it would go back down to like 240... I am talking about long 300 mile trips...

Theoretically, if the lack of oil cooler is the only problem, then I should be able to make my car get as hot as yours... but i cant!

[BavarianRocket]

Originally Posted by picus

When it hit 265F did you stop driving hard or did it just stop going up at that point? Thanks.

Stopped driving hard.... it cooled 10 degrees pretty fast...... and the funny thing was I went through the computer and the oil level was at half... then expanded back to max

[picus]

Hey RiXst3r, this may be a silly questions but have you confirmed your car doesn't have the oil cooler?

Yes, it takes awhile for the oil needle to move at all since oil takes awhile to heat up.

BavarianRocket - I wonder what would have happened had you kept pushing it.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by picus

Hey RiXst3r, this may be a silly questions but have you confirmed your car doesn't have the oil cooler?.

nope... I will check tonight

[max boost]

All automatic transmission cars with sports package IN North America built after Dec '06 HAVE the oil cooler.
All auto transmission cars with sports pack or without IN North America built between July '06-Nov 31 '06 DO NOT HAVE the oil cooler




my car was built in dec....were's that leave me at??
the above leaves dec as a gap????




[IMG][/IMG]

[2009BMW335]

november. i've seen it get above 280, usually around 250 though

[Ninjaneer]

Originally Posted by max boost

All automatic transmission cars with sports package IN North America built after Dec '06 HAVE the oil cooler.
All auto transmission cars with sports pack or without IN North America built between July '06-Nov 31 '06 DO NOT HAVE the oil cooler




my car was built in dec....were's that leave me at??
the above leaves dec as a gap????

No gap; you said yours was in Dec., and picus' criterias state coolers are in builds "after Dec." - so I'd say you do not have it since you were in Dec. and not after it.

You can always look through the left side of your front grill or look for the tubing picus mentioned in the other thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=42190&page=4

[picus]

Originally Posted by max boost

my car was built in dec....were's that leave me at??
the above leaves dec as a gap????

I should have been more clear. All cars built after Nov 31, with the sports package should have the cooler. You can confirm easily by looking where Ninjaneer mentioned. I will update the post to be more specific.

It should only take a cursory glance to confirm if you have it or not. If you look behind the plastic mesh on the passenger side front you will see one of two things. A semi-solid wall of black plastic with one side being a duct, or empty space with a small radiator looking thing behind it. Black plastic = no cooler. Empty space + rad looking thing = cooler.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=29 <---no cooler

[RiXst3r]

confirmed, I do not have the cooler... I also flogged my car for about 45 minutes today, probably floored it over 30 times from 0-80, and she stayed at 230F the whole time...and even ended with a full run up to 130mph. like I said before, no matter how hard I try, I cannot get above ~255F

Not sure if this matters, but I check my oil level regularly... even while at full 255F, my oil has always been on "MAX" since day one... some mentioned oil consumption... I wonder if the high oil temps and oil consumption go hand in hand...

Another thing to ask is how many people that are experience temps above 260F are still running the original break-in oil? Mine was changed at 1500 miles... It could be your oil viscosity causing the higher temps...