Non-RFT on 17" SE

man33sh · 04-16-2011, 08:56 PM

Time for my rear tyres to go...Thinking of swapping all 4 tyres to non-RFT's...Even on 17" and SE suspension I think the ride is crashy, feels like car skips over ruts, tramlines and if not on a completely smooth road the car feels like it wanders all over the place...So thinking about giving non-RFT's a go

Anybody done this on an SE suspension with 17" alloys? Been reading threads about it and a bit worried about handling becoming poor coz currently on SC2 runflats, if the road is perfect, it does feel very grippy.

Any advice and opinions much appreciated.

Cheers

Pwalo · 04-17-2011, 03:40 PM

Hi, I changed my tyres on my E91 325d SE last year. The cars handling characteristics instantly became much more progressive and the ride over bumps improved. The car still wanders over whitelines and cambers and that was after a 4 wheel alignment. The rfts are so damned heavy that the dampers don't cope well with bump rebound and just boing back from compression. Just bought a set of Eibach pro kit springs and Bilstein B6 dampers to try and sort the thing out as it still does it on non RFT's. Doesn't lower the car much and apparently just give a controlled quality ride - will feedback on Thursday as Iam doing it on Wednseday night.

man33sh · 04-18-2011, 06:09 AM

What size alloys are you using?

mrwindymiller · 04-18-2011, 09:32 AM

Recently dumped the 17" Bridgestone runflats in favor of Uniroyal Rainsport 2 (XL) non runflats.
The difference is like night and day, gone is the crashing and thumping over bumps and the road noise has reduced dramaticaly.
I do find the turn in has lost a little sharpness when having a little "spirited" drive but this is only really noticed on a perfectly smooth road.
The car also feels much more planted, no wandering, tramlining or the need to constantly correct the steering when it's a touch windy.
Wet driving is hugely improved, I found the Bridgestones gave very little feedback in the wet with them loosing grip very easily, the Uniroyals however provide superb feel and are far more progressive.

Getting rid of the runflats has made the car how it should have come from the factory, civilised but fun.

JaySTee · 04-18-2011, 10:57 AM

I went from 16" with run flats to 17" with non run flats. I find the ride roughly the same so in your case i'm sure it will improve.

man33sh · 04-18-2011, 11:56 AM

Thanks for the replies...

Looks like its going to be Non-RFT's for me...thinking of giving the Falken FK 452's a go...

Em135eye · 04-18-2011, 12:03 PM

I have Conti Sport Contact 3 non RFTs on mine - 17" alloys but M Sport suspension. Rides very well indeed and can be flung round corners at a grin inducing pace.

man33sh · 04-18-2011, 12:40 PM

Cant seem to source the FK 452's...Looking at SC3's now....

Anybody heard of http://www.rotationuk.com/...SC3's going there for £88.55 per conrner inc of VAT without fitting...On Event tyres they are going at £116 a corner and Camskill £105!

man33sh · 04-18-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335diesel

I have Conti Sport Contact 3 non RFTs on mine - 17" alloys but M Sport suspension. Rides very well indeed and can be flung round corners at a grin inducing pace.

Loved the SC2 RFT's in terms of grip...Hoping the SC3 non-RFT's will be even better...

F31-340i · 04-18-2011, 01:14 PM

I am still running 17" nonRFT with MSport suspension and it handles like one of these round the twisties.....

...though the ride is nice and soft.

An SE will be even softer - with even less precise handling - but some like them like this so its down to personal choice. From what you say it sounds like you may prefer it softer too - so go for it.

JaySTee · 04-19-2011, 07:06 AM

A lot of people say how soft the SE suspention is but I don't find it that soft and the ride not that great even with 17's and nrft's. Maybe my dampers are on the way out or something. I have never tried an Msport so have nothing to compare to. My previous car was a Scirocco (current model) with 3 damper settings and lower profile tyres, even on the hardest setting I think the ride was actually better than my E91.

How long do dampers generally last? My car is on 76k, spose it could also be down to bushes...

Em135eye · 04-19-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///ajd

I am still running 17" nonRFT with MSport suspension and it handles like one of these round the twisties.....

...though the ride is nice and soft.

An SE will be even softer - with even less precise handling - but some like them like this so its down to personal choice. From what you say it sounds like you may prefer it softer too - so go for it.

You must be mildly masochistic. Ride plenty firm enough on 17s with RFTs and handling excellent. Or yours might be broken?

F31-340i · 04-19-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335diesel

You must be mildly masochistic. Ride plenty firm enough on 17s with RFTs and handling excellent. Or yours might be broken?

Not broken - I just prefer the handling, reduced roll & particularly the steering on 18s and 19s. The ride is harder but still OK for me.

Em135eye · 04-19-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///ajd

Not broken - I just prefer the handling, reduced roll & particularly the steering on 18s and 19s. The ride is harder but still OK for me.

Really?

You've never mentioned it before

F31-340i · 04-19-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Really?

You've never mentioned it before

Swiller · 04-19-2011, 04:39 PM

18s 162 ellipsoid with non runflats (ps2) on an se works very well for me, the only thing i miss about runflats is the way it handled like it was on rails in sharp corners. I had rfts on 17s before and found the ride to be ok with some juddering when going over potholes as the real downside.
Am tempted to go with rfts on the 18s when i need a tyre change as the cornering isnt quite the same on non rfts.

man33sh · 04-20-2011, 06:02 AM

Hmm

...I do like the handling on the RFT's as well...Guess you cant have it both ways...Going to give the non-RFT's a try anyway otherwise it will always play on my mind!

Em135eye · 04-20-2011, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///ajd

Looks at your Porker - massive wheels, ultra low profile rubber.

Then look at these and tell the drivers they are missing out on some turn in and reduced roll with their old fashioned high profile tyres...

ALF_E90 · 04-20-2011, 10:05 AM

I'm a bit late to this (too much time driving for work, not enough in front of a PC!) but have an SE Touring originally on 18" staggered runflats, now on 17" non-staggered non-RFT.

The difference in ride quality is significant, the steering feel is a lot better, the handling in general seems to have benefitted from the lighter weight. There have been no disadvantages except a tiny bit on the looks front. E9X 3 series are not exactly lookers anyway so that's not a big issue to me. The ride is still pretty firm - distinctly sporty by some other manufacturer's standards - even with SE trim and non-RFT so don't worry about it becoming too soft. For our (pretty appallingly surfaced) British B-roads it seems ideal, even verging on still too stiff.

Around £100 a corner for premium rubber and having the same tyre size front and rear are big plusses for me as well, given the miles I do.

I did drive a loan 318d recently that handled better than my car on smooth roads (it was a low mileage facelift saloon on RFT) but that was not the tyres - it felt better than mine when mine was on RFT. I put that down to the other factors - it being a facelift model, and a saloon, and presumably having a lighter lump up front.

man33sh · 04-20-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF_E90

Around £100 a corner for premium rubber and having the same tyre size front and rear are big plusses for me as well, given the miles I do.

Which tyre and tyre size are you using? Have you noticed any difference in term of wear rate of the tyres?

My SC2 RFT's on the rear (225/45/17) gave me about 7500 miles at most and its time to change already!! Wonder if I should get my suspension checked out or maybe I should drive more carefully?

F31-340i · 04-20-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Looks at your Porker - massive wheels, ultra low profile rubber.

I whipped off one of the rear Fuchs last week whilst having a poke around - as a forged 16" wheel it was incredibly light - felt like half the weight of one of the 19"s! It also has tall 50 section tyres.

Despite this, the handling is great, but the ride is really quite crashy and hard - it's notable that the BMW on 19"s rides better than the 911 on 16"s. Spring rates (or rather torsion bar diameter

) and dampers play a part in the compromise.

One has basically 1960s (or earlier) suspension technology of course.

Em135eye · 04-20-2011, 02:39 PM

Ajd - I love your 911. Total classic. So there.

Man - I switched to non RFTs well before my insipid RFTs were worn and got through the rears in 8k miles. This alarmed me so got them laser aligned (inner edge wear was very evident) and they they new set (CSC3s) are lasting much better plus the car is smoother.

I think most people should look at laser alignment for a car like an E9* with it's serious negative rear wheel camber - the cost pays for itself many times over in more evenly worn tyres.

04-16-2011, 08:56 PM	#1
man33sh Enlisted Member 9 Rep 49 Posts Drives: E92 330D Auto Join Date: May 2010 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Non-RFT on 17" SE Time for my rear tyres to go...Thinking of swapping all 4 tyres to non-RFT's...Even on 17" and SE suspension I think the ride is crashy, feels like car skips over ruts, tramlines and if not on a completely smooth road the car feels like it wanders all over the place...So thinking about giving non-RFT's a go Anybody done this on an SE suspension with 17" alloys? Been reading threads about it and a bit worried about handling becoming poor coz currently on SC2 runflats, if the road is perfect, it does feel very grippy. Any advice and opinions much appreciated. Cheers
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04-17-2011, 03:40 PM	#2
Pwalo Private 10 Rep 87 Posts Drives: 118d m sport Le Mans blue 2009 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Guisborough iTrader: (0)	Hi, I changed my tyres on my E91 325d SE last year. The cars handling characteristics instantly became much more progressive and the ride over bumps improved. The car still wanders over whitelines and cambers and that was after a 4 wheel alignment. The rfts are so damned heavy that the dampers don't cope well with bump rebound and just boing back from compression. Just bought a set of Eibach pro kit springs and Bilstein B6 dampers to try and sort the thing out as it still does it on non RFT's. Doesn't lower the car much and apparently just give a controlled quality ride - will feedback on Thursday as Iam doing it on Wednseday night.
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04-18-2011, 06:09 AM	#3
man33sh Enlisted Member 9 Rep 49 Posts Drives: E92 330D Auto Join Date: May 2010 Location: London iTrader: (0)	What size alloys are you using?
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04-18-2011, 09:32 AM	#4
mrwindymiller Private 5 Rep 85 Posts Drives: E60 535d M Sport Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Rothwell iTrader: (0)	- Recently dumped the 17" Bridgestone runflats in favor of Uniroyal Rainsport 2 (XL) non runflats. The difference is like night and day, gone is the crashing and thumping over bumps and the road noise has reduced dramaticaly. I do find the turn in has lost a little sharpness when having a little "spirited" drive but this is only really noticed on a perfectly smooth road. The car also feels much more planted, no wandering, tramlining or the need to constantly correct the steering when it's a touch windy. Wet driving is hugely improved, I found the Bridgestones gave very little feedback in the wet with them loosing grip very easily, the Uniroyals however provide superb feel and are far more progressive. Getting rid of the runflats has made the car how it should have come from the factory, civilised but fun.
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04-18-2011, 10:57 AM	#5
JaySTee First Lieutenant 17 Rep 390 Posts Drives: E91 320d SE Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Devon, UK iTrader: (0)	I went from 16" with run flats to 17" with non run flats. I find the ride roughly the same so in your case i'm sure it will improve. __________________
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04-18-2011, 11:56 AM	#6
man33sh Enlisted Member 9 Rep 49 Posts Drives: E92 330D Auto Join Date: May 2010 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the replies... Looks like its going to be Non-RFT's for me...thinking of giving the Falken FK 452's a go...
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04-18-2011, 12:03 PM	#7
Em135eye Banned 177 Rep 4,302 Posts Drives: M135i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South West iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW M135i 5 door [0.00]	I have Conti Sport Contact 3 non RFTs on mine - 17" alloys but M Sport suspension. Rides very well indeed and can be flung round corners at a grin inducing pace.
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04-18-2011, 12:40 PM	#8
man33sh Enlisted Member 9 Rep 49 Posts Drives: E92 330D Auto Join Date: May 2010 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Cant seem to source the FK 452's...Looking at SC3's now.... Anybody heard of http://www.rotationuk.com/...SC3's going there for £88.55 per conrner inc of VAT without fitting...On Event tyres they are going at £116 a corner and Camskill £105!
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04-18-2011, 01:14 PM	#10
F31-340i Colonel 160 Rep 2,475 Posts Drives: BMW 340i Touring Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ... iTrader: (1)	I am still running 17" nonRFT with MSport suspension and it handles like one of these round the twisties..... ...though the ride is nice and soft. An SE will be even softer - with even less precise handling - but some like them like this so its down to personal choice. From what you say it sounds like you may prefer it softer too - so go for it. __________________ 340i F31
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04-19-2011, 07:06 AM	#11
JaySTee First Lieutenant 17 Rep 390 Posts Drives: E91 320d SE Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Devon, UK iTrader: (0)	A lot of people say how soft the SE suspention is but I don't find it that soft and the ride not that great even with 17's and nrft's. Maybe my dampers are on the way out or something. I have never tried an Msport so have nothing to compare to. My previous car was a Scirocco (current model) with 3 damper settings and lower profile tyres, even on the hardest setting I think the ride was actually better than my E91. How long do dampers generally last? My car is on 76k, spose it could also be down to bushes... __________________
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04-19-2011, 04:39 PM	#16
Swiller First Lieutenant 9 Rep 322 Posts Drives: 330i Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: London iTrader: (0)	18s 162 ellipsoid with non runflats (ps2) on an se works very well for me, the only thing i miss about runflats is the way it handled like it was on rails in sharp corners. I had rfts on 17s before and found the ride to be ok with some juddering when going over potholes as the real downside. Am tempted to go with rfts on the 18s when i need a tyre change as the cornering isnt quite the same on non rfts.
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04-20-2011, 06:02 AM	#17
man33sh Enlisted Member 9 Rep 49 Posts Drives: E92 330D Auto Join Date: May 2010 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Hmm ...I do like the handling on the RFT's as well...Guess you cant have it both ways...Going to give the non-RFT's a try anyway otherwise it will always play on my mind!
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04-20-2011, 10:05 AM	#19
ALF_E90 Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 280 Posts Drives: E91 330i - see classifieds... Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Winchester iTrader: (0)	I'm a bit late to this (too much time driving for work, not enough in front of a PC!) but have an SE Touring originally on 18" staggered runflats, now on 17" non-staggered non-RFT. The difference in ride quality is significant, the steering feel is a lot better, the handling in general seems to have benefitted from the lighter weight. There have been no disadvantages except a tiny bit on the looks front. E9X 3 series are not exactly lookers anyway so that's not a big issue to me. The ride is still pretty firm - distinctly sporty by some other manufacturer's standards - even with SE trim and non-RFT so don't worry about it becoming too soft. For our (pretty appallingly surfaced) British B-roads it seems ideal, even verging on still too stiff. Around £100 a corner for premium rubber and having the same tyre size front and rear are big plusses for me as well, given the miles I do. I did drive a loan 318d recently that handled better than my car on smooth roads (it was a low mileage facelift saloon on RFT) but that was not the tyres - it felt better than mine when mine was on RFT. I put that down to the other factors - it being a facelift model, and a saloon, and presumably having a lighter lump up front.
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04-20-2011, 02:39 PM	#22
Em135eye Banned 177 Rep 4,302 Posts Drives: M135i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South West iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW M135i 5 door [0.00]	Ajd - I love your 911. Total classic. So there. Man - I switched to non RFTs well before my insipid RFTs were worn and got through the rears in 8k miles. This alarmed me so got them laser aligned (inner edge wear was very evident) and they they new set (CSC3s) are lasting much better plus the car is smoother. I think most people should look at laser alignment for a car like an E9* with it's serious negative rear wheel camber - the cost pays for itself many times over in more evenly worn tyres.
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