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      04-27-2011, 09:51 AM   #1
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Reliability with more boost

Hi forum, Ive been a long time lurker and have done a fair amount of research on all of the tunes.
However my main goal with a tune is reliability, I have warranty until august and then cpo for another 2 years(my car is an 07).
I do realize that more power=more stress on the engine, but what would you guys(hopefully people with experience answer this) consider a safe and reliable boost for a stock car?
I really like the features/ functionality of the procede, and on Shivs site he says uou could expect stock lile reliability if you maintain your car regularly, is this true?
Should I just get a jb+ or something more mild since I really dont want to damage anything.

Please dont leave any immature comments, yes I did search, but wanted to ask personaly.
Thank you
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      04-27-2011, 09:53 AM   #2
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i think that a lot of people run tunes with many mile son their cars. as long as the boost isnt to high and it tapers off a bit at the shift it should be ok in terms of longevity.
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      04-27-2011, 10:14 AM   #3
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I dont think the answer is Jb+ since its "mild".

You would be better off with a full tune and just keeping the boost conservative. I believe Shiv is right, especially cause he has one of the hardest abused tracked 335 out there today with excess of 80+K miles tuned.

Cobb Procede Jb4 Pick your poison. Let me know If I can help you anyway.
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      04-27-2011, 10:16 AM   #4
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There is no "safe and reliable boost" without taking into account other parameters like timing advance. If you need top reliability get a good flash (like GIAC), because the timing advance is adapted to the higher boost. With piggybacks it's a hit-and-miss thing, although very few engines had blown up to date.
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      04-27-2011, 10:21 AM   #5
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I seriously doubt it is going to have stock reliability. There is a reason I switched from procede. I had alot of half engine lights and so forth. Also, it seemed to run hotter on the dyno with procede compared to cobb as well. I understand that the cobb makes less power but I feel the afr's had something to do with the extra heat produced by the procede. Hope that helps
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      04-27-2011, 10:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momstmg78 View Post
I seriously doubt it is going to have stock reliability. There is a reason I switched from procede. I had alot of half engine lights and so forth. Also, it seemed to run hotter on the dyno with procede compared to cobb as well. I understand that the cobb makes less power but I feel the afr's had something to do with the extra heat produced by the procede. Hope that helps

If you are making more power on the PROcede (which you were) the likelihood of more engine heat is physics.

As far as as your check engine light problems. Ive never had ANY in 2 years from any tune.

99% of problems are end user or maintenance issues (plugs sparks coil or fuel pump).

What were the CEL for? If it was misfire from AT that problem has been resolved.

I just rather see people fully educated then getting half the story.

Cobb is a good tune. Not saying it isnt. We sell a lot of them.
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      04-27-2011, 10:34 AM   #7
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I want people educated also. I never said the extra power didn't have anything to do with, just that the afr's add to the problem. Hope that helps


Also no more half engine lights since I switched to cobb.

Last edited by momstmg78; 04-27-2011 at 10:41 AM..
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      04-27-2011, 10:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momstmg78 View Post
I want people educated also. I never said the extra power didn't have anything to do with, just that the afr's add to the problem. Hope that helps
My last car had supercharger added on aftermarket. I had 200+ degree intake temperatures. My air fuel were 11.5 across the board. Just saying AFR is not really the problem as long as the car isnt knocking. Feeding these small turbo's at 100,000+ RPM over spinning them is going to generate more heat then if you were to spin the considerably less to make the 13 PSI a Cobb stage 1 makes on the top end. I think you had a well thought out theory, but it really hold no water.

My AFR are in the 12's (which is solid for a DI car).

what were the engine lights for though?
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      04-27-2011, 10:45 AM   #9
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I'm not talking about iat's, when I say it get hot I mean the cats smelled like they were burning up with the procede compared to the cobb( that has something to do with afr's). Hope that helps
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      04-27-2011, 10:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momstmg78 View Post
I'm not talking about iat's, when I say it get hot I mean the cats smelled like they were burning up with the procede compared to the cobb( that has something to do with afr's). Hope that helps
So maybe you referring to EGT's then if you think you were burning up the cats. You keep avoiding some of my questions. So I'll just drop the subject since you dont want to tell the whole story. Good luck with the car though.
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      04-27-2011, 10:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tscdennab View Post
There is no "safe and reliable boost" without taking into account other parameters like timing advance. If you need top reliability get a good flash (like GIAC), because the timing advance is adapted to the higher boost. With piggybacks it's a hit-and-miss thing, although very few engines had blown up to date.
I'm the last person to start a tuner war and it's the last thing i want to do but are you serious? Yes, some piggybacks advance timing and ignition control and some don't...but it's far from hit-and-miss??? Just pick the one that has it and the one that doesn't. Define reliability..how do you know GIAC is the most reliable fo them all. Have you done a spreadsheet outlining engine wear, blown engines, engine knock etc?
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      04-27-2011, 11:05 AM   #12
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Yeah which afr's will cause higher egt's. Make since? Also the boost between the 2 wasn't that much differnt but when you add high afr's with more timing your going to get more power which is not safe in my book.

On a side not. It's funny how vendors on here are so quick to denote what someone has experienced
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      04-27-2011, 11:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momstmg78 View Post
I'm not talking about iat's, when I say it get hot I mean the cats smelled like they were burning up with the procede compared to the cobb( that has something to do with afr's). Hope that helps
The "burning cat smell" just means you have never really been that hard on the car. When I first installed the procede in September last year after buying my CPO. Robert@Vishnu was driving it and after the first 10-15 pulls we stopped and the windows were down. He says you smell that? Yea it stinks but its because the car had never been raged. It was the first time the system got "hot" as you put it and it was all the factory oils and smells burning off (a sort of break in smell is what robert called it).

Nothing to worry about at all. Since then I've never smelled anything even after many 30 min hard canyon runs. Yea any tune will produce more heat like Jeff said its just physics. I've never had any issues with the procede since I installed it. Cats also operate off of high heat. The hotter they are the more oxygen they give off. The likely hood of you melting you cat is far fetched.
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      04-27-2011, 11:17 AM   #14
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Afr's were around 15 until after 5k rpms, while cobb was at 12.5 afr as early as 2.5k rpms. You can say what you want to but 15 afr at 5k is not good. That and all the half engine lights is why I switched. If I didn't have problems I wouldn't have switched.
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      04-27-2011, 12:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420 View Post
The "burning cat smell" just means you have never really been that hard on the car. When I first installed the procede in September last year after buying my CPO. Robert@Vishnu was driving it and after the first 10-15 pulls we stopped and the windows were down. He says you smell that? Yea it stinks but its because the car had never been raged. It was the first time the system got "hot" as you put it and it was all the factory oils and smells burning off (a sort of break in smell is what robert called it).

Nothing to worry about at all. Since then I've never smelled anything even after many 30 min hard canyon runs. Yea any tune will produce more heat like Jeff said its just physics. I've never had any issues with the procede since I installed it. Cats also operate off of high heat. The hotter they are the more oxygen they give off. The likely hood of you melting you cat is far fetched.


So you took the vendor's word that everything is fine on a product they sell?
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      04-27-2011, 12:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momstmg78 View Post
Yeah which afr's will cause higher egt's. Make since? Also the boost between the 2 wasn't that much differnt but when you add high afr's with more timing your going to get more power which is not safe in my book.

On a side not. It's funny how vendors on here are so quick to denote what someone has experienced
I have every right as a vendor to discuss, ask questions, and educate just like anyone else in here. If you want to bring up the subject a 3rd time of your CEL then explain what the CEL were. Otherwise dont bring them up as its not beneficial to anyone in the community doing research. People would like ot know what they are getting into if there is something substantially wrong?

Did you look into the AFR problem? Was it even a problem? did you contact the tuner? Were you on the latest maps? Miles? Modifications? Recent REcalls? software? Plugs mileage? Injectors Replaced?

These are all common questions that need to be answered when diagnosing a problem.

I send out dozens of emails a day to people, for troubleshooting, for free..... trust me I've heard it all.

Its unfortunate your experience but it doesnt go along with the norm. People are quick to post the bad but never the good around here.

2 years CEL free, 17-18 PSI here.

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 04-27-2011 at 12:24 PM..
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      04-27-2011, 12:33 PM   #17
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simple starting point would have been to read the codes and troubleshoot from there to determine if it was plugs, HPFP, O2 sensor codes (which may cause AFR problems) or other.
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      04-27-2011, 12:36 PM   #18
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Just got word that Enrita just did a track day at the N-ring and another one at Misano (italy). He was running 15psi without meth on upgraded turbos. No codes, absolutely no issues and according to his text, it ran "extremely strong". That's two track days and a 5000km round trip from where he lives in Sweden. On the street, he runs 17-18psi with meth. I think he is still en route so he will probably post up more details when he gets back home.

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      04-27-2011, 12:49 PM   #19
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I've been fully modded and tuned for over 35K miles and have never had one issue with my car that can be completely related to running more boost. My stock turbos are still running strong, however, I finally have a seal leaking oil. Like any turbo system, parts will eventually wear out and fail due to stress, and they may or may not fail faster when running more boost. I know guys who needed new turbos at 20k miles running completely stock, I'm very pleased I reached near 60k with only a minor issue on 1 turbo.
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      04-27-2011, 12:54 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momstmg78 View Post
I seriously doubt it is going to have stock reliability. There is a reason I switched from procede. I had alot of half engine lights and so forth. Also, it seemed to run hotter on the dyno with procede compared to cobb as well. I understand that the cobb makes less power but I feel the afr's had something to do with the extra heat produced by the procede. Hope that helps
What code were you getting? If you were having a problem I'm curious as to what code you actually got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post


So you took the vendor's word that everything is fine on a product they sell?
It's not even that I took his word. I know from experience from before when replacing cats on cars they would smell initially because they are breaking in. I've never once worried about it before. Robert went to school with me and we both are trained technicians. He was basically just telling me that I got a great car that never even got hot and this was its first time breaking in. Just two techs talking about the car. I'm not overly worried about my car or tune like a lot of people on here because I've seen first had what Shiv and Robert do to these cars and they literally beat the shit of them. If it can withstand all the torture they put the car through I know I have nothing to worry about. To many people baby their cars and worry about every little possible problem.
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      04-27-2011, 12:59 PM   #21
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Now that BMW and other car makers can easily detect a tune or over boost operation, you're warranty could be toast.
That is interesting. Can you post a link showing that BMW toasted someone's warranty because they detected an overboost operation?
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      04-27-2011, 12:59 PM   #22
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It's funny how once I switched to cobb the high afr's and cel's have not come back, so I would say it is tune related not car issues.
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