[AWBimmer]

Apologies for those of you over at EvoT.. but here goes nothin'..

Spoke to car audio specialists today..

Audison Connection sli4 (OEM speaker to RCA adaptor)
Focal 100KRS components
Earthquake Slim line subs (under seats)
Custom fitted box for my 2 x 10” boot subs and another good solid Amp to run these.

Total: £1300 all in fitted.

I’m on a mission to do the majority of it myself but a few questions for you gents of the wider audience..

1. Are focal 100krs much different to Focal 100vrs and are they any good??
2. Any other speakers / components that you can recommend?
3. Should I bother replacing rear shelf speakers?
4. Where best to buy earthquake subs?
5. I was told by another company locally (Edge Performance) that they would recommend MTX RE-Q (in substitute of the Sli4) – wondering if you guys could give me more guidance as to what I am supposed to actually be looking for in these gadgets? ....

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/pro...-adaptors.html

6. As I already have a 4 chn amp which will power my new 2 front speakers, and 2 subs below seats, I’ll need a new solid sub to power the 2 subs in the boot should I go down this route, what would you recommend, nothing too expensive but the lowest end either.

7. Finally, would you say connecting the Sli4/MTX RE:Q a DIY job or not?

Really appreciate all your help! Pics will follow so get advising!

Oh and sorry for so many Q’s but I bet your last penny there are going to be others who will find this info usefully 

[B33M3R]

Hi

First off I wouldn't part with any money until you've had a good research on the Audio Section. There are some experts on here that will steer you in the right direction but you're asking alot of questions which are well covered with a quick search!

Broadly speaking that's a good amount of money for not much equipment. I've not heard of the ReQ or SLi devices but looking at them they don't seem to do very much other that either converting speaker outs to RCA or boosting up a bit of bass? I may be wrong.

First off research what system your starting with. There are three main levels here in the UK. 'base' which will be the basic no amp, no tweeter system. 'Hi Fi' which I think is now called 'Business' over here? Or 'Logic 7' called 'Harmon Kardon' here. Each will take you in a different direction as each need a different approach.

I suspect you probably have the basic system I did if so here's my guide to get you started.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954

The Focal KRS 100's are very good in my opinion but there are a good amount of other options out there.

Good luck

[AWBimmer]

Hey,
I am actually going to be using your DIY post as a guideline.. it's fantastic!
I have the most basic setup (Basic/Professional) so no tweeters as standard.

When I order my stuff, do I need to get the cables etc or do these plug n play cables come with the equipment? (your DIY says something about harnesses?)..

Also, what did you use as line outs, presuming you stuck with your OEM H/U? (i.e. how did u connect your OEM H/U to everything??) I notice in your DIY you took apart some of the center console.. I don't think I'll need to do that, or would I?

Thanks for your DIY btw. Oh before I forget, whats the JBL MS8 for? I just need good front components, some kick ass slimline subs under seats all connected to my OEM H/U and the relevant cables. If later down the line I decide to add in boot subs then I'll do that too but I don't want to take apart the OEM H/U if I have the choice.

Thanks buddy.

Originally Posted by B33M3R

Hi

First off I wouldn't part with any money until you've had a good research on the Audio Section. There are some experts on here that will steer you in the right direction but you're asking alot of questions which are well covered with a quick search!

Broadly speaking that's a good amount of money for not much equipment. I've not heard of the ReQ or SLi devices but looking at them they don't seem to do very much other that either converting speaker level to RCA or boosting up a bit of bass? I may be wrong.

First off research what system your starting with. There are three main levels here in the UK. 'base' which will be the basic no amp, no tweeter system. 'Hi Fi' which I think is now called 'Business' over here? Or 'Logic 7' called 'Harmon Kardon' here. Each will take you in a different direction as each need a different approach.

I suspect you probably have the basic system I did if so here's my guide to get you started.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954

The Focal KRS 100's are very good in my opinion but there are a good amount of other options out there.

Good luck

[AWBimmer]

Oh, I found JBL MS8 in the states on ebay for about £320.. any ideas if that will work or will I have problems re: power / output etc..

[B33M3R]

Originally Posted by AWBimmer

Oh, I found JBL MS8 in the states on ebay for about £320.. any ideas if that will work or will I have problems re: power / output etc..

Hi

Sorry if this formats a bit all over the place, I'm sneaking a post on the iPhone whilst pretending to watch a romantic movie with the wife.

There is an issue with the 'base' system in that it outputs a heavily tweaked EQ to make up for the cheap speakers and lack of tweeters. If you replace the speakers with something else they will probably sound poop. If not poop then not as good as they should. This needs to be corrected so you get a 'flat' output to use for your new components. Some cars could have their headunits recoded from 'base' to 'Hi Fi' which made the headunit output a 'flat' signal instead of the tweaked one however the newer cars can't do this anymore.

You should sort this out first before you spend money on expensive speakers and amps.

There are several ways to do this but the most popular way of doing it is by adding a DSP like the MS8 or Audison Bit One. For me after my research I chose the MS8. This can take the high level output of you headunit, flatten the signal and the optimise it for your own setup. It can output eight channels and is very versatile. I would have a look into this but they are quite expensive. Bare in mind anything you order from the states on EBay will incur UK Vat and import duty as well so £300 plus postage will turn into £500 + so watch out!

There is alot of potential with the MS8 for expanding, eg adding a centre and powering the rears as I have. It can control all your crossovers and set up time alignment as well.

The harness in my guide is made by forum member 'Technic' and is plug and play. It takes all the outputs including a remote turn on to the boot and then back behind the headunit to mate back up with the cars loom. No cutting required. You would need to remove the head unit for this but it's easy!

The MS8 has both high level and RCA outputs as well. It concerns me neither shop you've approached has mentioned the need to sort the EQ out

[AWBimmer]

Thanks man, much appreciated. I hope the wife didn't suspect a secret affair, albeit with the e90 domain!

So are there any other alternatives to the MS8 or Audison Bit 1? How does the MS8 connect - please forgive the amateur nature of my questions but best I know everything before buying, like you have rightly said. Is there a less expensive option to the Audison/MS8 that can do the job well?

[B33M3R]

Originally Posted by AWBimmer

Thanks man, much appreciated. I hope the wife didn't suspect a secret affair, albeit with the e90 domain!

So are there any other alternatives to the MS8 or Audison Bit 1? How does the MS8 connect - please forgive the amateur nature of my questions but best I know everything before buying, like you have rightly said. Is there a less expensive option to the Audison/MS8 that can do the job well?

Hi

With the caveat of I'm not an expert, here's my advice!

The issue with the tweaked EQ on the 'base' HU is a bit of a pain really.

The standard 'base' system has no amp so the HU powers the speakers directly. It has a high level output and no RCA's. So you're starting with a high level speaker output with a custom EQ for the standard speakers.

You could feed this into an amp with a high level input and use that to power your system but the tweaked EQ will remain and you run the risk of it sounding bad. This would still be the case if you used an adaptor to convert the HU output to RCA so you would be no better off at that point.

The shops you have spoken to haven't really addressed this.

Like I've said some people have ignored this EQ issue, upgraded and been happy with the results.

For me I knew it would be an issue and the advice from the most of the longstanding audio experts on here has always been to rectify this before upgrading.

I suppose the first thing to give consideration to would be the Alpine upgrade.

The earlier kits deal with the EQ issue by having an amp that reversed or modified the EQ to suit the new speakers that come with the kit. I haven't heard anyone complain about the improvement these kits give over standard but the bar is pretty low to begin with.

The current Alpine kits require the HU to be recoded and there is debate as to whether this actually does anything as it's been reported the new HU's won't recode.

I've also read about a couple of people who've have issues with PDC and Gong volumes with the new kit which BMW can't sort out, but this might just be an isolated issue. The kits aren't really that cheap either.

When I approached my local dealer about recoding the HU to 'Hi Fi' in order to get it to output a flat signal they had not done it before, didn't know if it would work and wanted £100 to try it.

If you're someone who is accustomed to twin 10" subs in the boot I doubt the Alpine upgrade will float you're boat. You could start with that and build on it but I wouldn't recommend it as like I've said it's not cheap and the money could be better used elsewhere.

If to begin with you are looking to add a decent set of components, some SWS's under the seats and a trunk sub(s) you could do this with a four, five or six channel amp or a combination. Eg. a four channel powering the front components and under seats then a one or two channel for the trunk sub(s).

In answer to the cheapest way to deal with the tweaked EQ other than changing out your HU (bare in mind you will likely lose PDC, Gongs and bluetooth where fitted), sticking to equipment from the UK at least, I initially considered the JL Audio Cleansweep. Allot of people use this and there are lots of threads on it. There's also YouTube videos on how to set it up.

This will take the high level output from your HU and flatten it. I believe it remains high level so you would still need to feed it into an amp that takes a high level input but that's no problem.

It has no DSP function other than to normalise (flatten) the signal, that I'm aware of so you would use the crossovers of whatever amps you fit and the limited bass/treble of your HU to set up the system.

In the US there is a make of amps called Zapco which have a built in DSP but they're not sold here and I've never found any online.

That really leaves DSP's like the JBL MS8, Audison Bit One and Alpine PXE-H650. There are probably others but these are the main ones I've seen referred to.

Of these the MS8 in most people's opinion (including mine) ticks the most boxes and is supposed to be idiot proof in achieving the best sound with little or no knowledge. I've not seen a negative review of it.

If you were to use this for example with a 'Technic' harness you would plug the harness in behind the HU and run it's cables to the MS8 (more than likely in the boot). The harness has all the wires labelled and it's very easy to wire up.

Power and earth hook ups are exactly the same as you would for an amp.

The MS8 will be the heart of your system, take the tweaked EQ and not only flatten the signal but by using a binaural headset during the setup process create a new EQ based on your cars environment, set up your crossovers, add time alignment for the various seating positions and allow you to setup bass, mid range, treble, speaker levels, sub volume etc. It also has a fully customisable manual EQ for when you get clever.

It could, on it's own power your 'base' system as it is, you could just add some tweeters up front and your subs in the trunk with an additional amp. That I'm sure would be a dramatic improvement within budget with plenty of scope for expansion.

Some people have used it to power after market speakers though, it has 8 channels rated at 18 watts RMS at 4 ohms. I'm using it on my Vibe rears and centre channel and they sound great.

There's not enough to power the SWS's or the Focal's on its own but like I've said if you're adding trunk subs you could keep the under seats standard initially and run them as mid bass instead.

SWS's probably would be an overkill if you are running twin 10's as well.

I've read the standard under seats perform well as mid bass and that would be a big saving right there as SWS's aren't cheap.

[kaishang]

Originally Posted by B33M3R

I've also read about a couple of people who've have issues with PDC and Gong volumes with the new kit which BMW can't sort out, but this might just be an isolated issue. The kits aren't really that cheap either.

Have you had any problem with the MS-8 and the PDC beeps? I have read threads over on the audio branch with people with MS-8s who have lost their beeps.

I'd consider installing the MS-8 (I already have the HiFi system with tweeters and rear amp) but not if it means losing the PDC beeps, plus I'm not confident I could find anyone to install it and program it properly.

I really should have coughed up the extra £400 for the Harmon Kardon/Logic 7.

[B33M3R]

Originally Posted by kaishang

Have you had any problem with the MS-8 and the PDC beeps? I have read threads over on the audio branch with people with MS-8s who have lost their beeps.

I'd consider installing the MS-8 (I already have the HiFi system with tweeters and rear amp) but not if it means losing the PDC beeps, plus I'm not confident I could find anyone to install it and program it properly.

I really should have coughed up the extra £400 for the Harmon Kardon/Logic 7.

Hi, I have no issues with the PDC beeps, lights on chimes / warning bongs, Sat Nav or handsfree volume.

All volumes remain fully adjustable via the iDrive and are exactly as before. I think the reason people might have lost them is because they haven't fed the rear channels from the HU into the MS8 and only used the fronts outputs as the MS8 manual states.

If you do this you will not hear some of the above as they are played through the rear channels (apparently)

The only issue there is, is a slight echo on the handsfree if you have the volume too high in the car during a call. Basicaly if the person you are speaking to will hear their own voice repeated as they talk.

The reason for this is owing to the fact the MS8 affects the OE time alignment so it interferes with the hands free noise cancelation.

This has been reported in different makes of car after fitment of an MS8 so not specific to BMW. I did read somewhere that there may be a software update before too long to sort this.

[AWBimmer]

Woah, thanks very much for your detailed input.. certainly helps and I'll make sure I look into your suggestions when reconfiguring my audio setup man. I'm heading to an audio specialist nr london over the wknd so see how I get on and what equipment I chose.. will post up soon as - but again, thank you - that must have taken time to type up, no doubt!

u heading to santa pod next month? I'm still considering as things are always last minute with me lol.

Originally Posted by B33M3R

Hi

With the caveat of I'm not an expert, here's my advice!

The issue with the tweaked EQ on the 'base' HU is a bit of a pain really.

The standard 'base' system has no amp so the HU powers the speakers directly. It has a high level output and no RCA's. So you're starting with a high level speaker output with a custom EQ for the standard speakers.

You could feed this into an amp with a high level input and use that to power your system but the tweaked EQ will remain and you run the risk of it sounding bad. This would still be the case if you used an adaptor to convert the HU output to RCA so you would be no better off at that point.

The shops you have spoken to haven't really addressed this.

Like I've said some people have ignored this EQ issue, upgraded and been happy with the results.

For me I knew it would be an issue and the advice from the most of the longstanding audio experts on here has always been to rectify this before upgrading.

I suppose the first thing to give consideration to would be the Alpine upgrade.

The earlier kits deal with the EQ issue by having an amp that reversed or modified the EQ to suit the new speakers that come with the kit. I haven't heard anyone complain about the improvement these kits give over standard but the bar is pretty low to begin with.

The current Alpine kits require the HU to be recoded and there is debate as to whether this actually does anything as it's been reported the new HU's won't recode.

I've also read about a couple of people who've have issues with PDC and Gong volumes with the new kit which BMW can't sort out, but this might just be an isolated issue. The kits aren't really that cheap either.

When I approached my local dealer about recoding the HU to 'Hi Fi' in order to get it to output a flat signal they had not done it before, didn't know if it would work and wanted £100 to try it.

If you're someone who is accustomed to twin 10" subs in the boot I doubt the Alpine upgrade will float you're boat. You could start with that and build on it but I wouldn't recommend it as like I've said it's not cheap and the money could be better used elsewhere.

If to begin with you are looking to add a decent set of components, some SWS's under the seats and a trunk sub(s) you could do this with a four, five or six channel amp or a combination. Eg. a four channel powering the front components and under seats then a one or two channel for the trunk sub(s).

In answer to the cheapest way to deal with the tweaked EQ other than changing out your HU (bare in mind you will likely lose PDC, Gongs and bluetooth where fitted), sticking to equipment from the UK at least, I initially considered the JL Audio Cleansweep. Allot of people use this and there are lots of threads on it. There's also YouTube videos on how to set it up.

This will take the high level output from your HU and flatten it. I believe it remains high level so you would still need to feed it into an amp that takes a high level input but that's no problem.

It has no DSP function other than to normalise (flatten) the signal, that I'm aware of so you would use the crossovers of whatever amps you fit and the limited bass/treble of your HU to set up the system.

In the US there is a make of amps called Zapco which have a built in DSP but they're not sold here and I've never found any online.

That really leaves DSP's like the JBL MS8, Audison Bit One and Alpine PXE-H650. There are probably others but these are the main ones I've seen referred to.

Of these the MS8 in most people's opinion (including mine) ticks the most boxes and is supposed to be idiot proof in achieving the best sound with little or no knowledge. I've not seen a negative review of it.

If you were to use this for example with a 'Technic' harness you would plug the harness in behind the HU and run it's cables to the MS8 (more than likely in the boot). The harness has all the wires labelled and it's very easy to wire up.

Power and earth hook ups are exactly the same as you would for an amp.

The MS8 will be the heart of your system, take the tweaked EQ and not only flatten the signal but by using a binaural headset during the setup process create a new EQ based on your cars environment, set up your crossovers, add time alignment for the various seating positions and allow you to setup bass, mid range, treble, speaker levels, sub volume etc. It also has a fully customisable manual EQ for when you get clever.

It could, on it's own power your 'base' system as it is, you could just add some tweeters up front and your subs in the trunk with an additional amp. That I'm sure would be a dramatic improvement within budget with plenty of scope for expansion.

Some people have used it to power after market speakers though, it has 8 channels rated at 18 watts RMS at 4 ohms. I'm using it on my Vibe rears and centre channel and they sound great.

There's not enough to power the SWS's or the Focal's on its own but like I've said if you're adding trunk subs you could keep the under seats standard initially and run them as mid bass instead.

SWS's probably would be an overkill if you are running twin 10's as well.

I've read the standard under seats perform well as mid bass and that would be a big saving right there as SWS's aren't cheap.

[AWBimmer]

JUST GOT TECHNIC's HARNESS in the post today

P.S (For sale the HiFi version of TECHNIC's HARNESS OE!! - bought off a forum member by accident as I dind't know there were diff harnesses for the HiFi setup :-( - PM for details - negotiable on price )

Technic is just an out right fantastic guy, both to do business with and in picking his brain! Thank you very much for all your help Technic and I'll be sure to post up some pics once I've done the install in a few weeks. Got too many things lined up for atleast the next 3 weeks, i.e. Work trip to Portugal next to next wknd

I can't wait to start installing the gear so stay tuned!

P.S. Technic thanks for clarifying the OE jumper cable scenarior for pre lci cars, saved me some ££ and furthermore, A LOT of hassle!

Credits due in the final chapter of this project.. you already know who you are

[fulcrum]

I think I have been flaffing over my audio upgrade even longer than you.

I am in much the same dilemma - decided on the Focals, SW8s, Technic harness and a 4 chanel amp - probably a Focal Solid or a Moscani Galden One.

I know I am going to need a signal processor but do not want to spend £600 so looking at the Bit Ten D (though I am not sure I need the D element).

What did you decide in the end?