[nany82]

8/1: see page 2 for lengthy but complete update. Thanks to all!!!

UPDATE coming soon, sorry been super busy with this situation, and my regular life. Just want to say thanks for all the input and support!!!

Hi All,

I could really use some advice/opinion. I would have been introducing myself as the owner of an new ordered Le Mans Blue 335xi, M Sport Package. However, yesterday when I go to take delivery on the car, I noticed white specks (looks almost like water stains) in many places underneath the first layer (clear coat?). Some areas of the car are worse than others. I will try to attach pictures later, but you can't really see since its a camera phone.

Breakdown:
I arrived at the dealer and saw the car briefly in the service area dropoff (indoors). Inside you could not see any imperfections, and it was just about ready. So, my CA brings me in to sign all the paperwork (finance agreement, trade-in, pay down payment). Once we were done, he gave me the keys and told me to move it to just outside the indoor service area in the shade so we can begin the "tutorial"(intro to the car and all the features). Once the outdoor natural lighting hit the car, I gave it another look and that's when this nightmare began. I saw all the spots in different areas of the car and its not superficial because no amount of rubbing/cleaning takes it off.

I brought it to my CA's attention and he was dumbfounded and stated he didn't see that inside either. So the manager comes, and at first they wanted me to bring the car back during the week, but after taking pictures and really looking into the matter, I refused to even drive the car off the lot. They took pictures as well. They were closing and the manager was acting like he didn't have a loaner, but they found one (beat up and dirty as all sin) and gave me that, while they try to resolve the issue (whatever it is). No one seemed to know immediately, but they gave me (at my request) a "WE OWE" slip stating that the car will be re-detailed under the clear coat! As I understand it, the paint still has to "cure" and should not be touched. Wouldn't this involve buffing, wet sanding or polishing? Also, wouldn't this qualify as a repair/bodywork? If so, I don't want to spend my hard-earned money on a refurbished/fixed car when I waited 7 weeks for a factory fresh, customized-to-my-liking vehicle.

They told my family who was with me to please be patient and they will fix it or BMW will, even if they have to get a new car out. Right now I'm leaning towards the new car, but should I be getting it for a less price? Since now I'm looking at another 2 month wait and the 2012s are here or almost here and technically the car (2011) will be a year old already. Plus, all this inconvenience. Maybe they should be giving me a 2012 at the price I got (It was an good, not great deal, from what I'm told)? I also traded in an STi (which I've had nothing but bad luck with) and I am definitely not taking back. Am I entitled to the loaner until I get my car? Otherwise I have no car. I'm sooooooo frustrated right now.

The loaner car is a joke not just compared to what I ordered but just as a car in general. There isn't one panel that isn't damaged, it smells bad and is DIRTY . I have always kept a clean car whether it was my corolla, 318i, or STi. Hand wash only and 3-4 times a month. Even when I've borrowed a car from a friend/family I take it to the wash!

Again, I already went through all the paperwork (signed contract/finance agreement, left total down). I just never drove it off the lot. So I guess what I need is ideas on how to approach the situation, so I'm protected and ready. Any experience, ideas, opinions, and/or advice is GREATLY appreciated. Sorry for the session .

PICTURES: https://picasaweb.google.com/nany82/July232011

[SteveH]

Pics

[nany82]

I will post pics once I get home, they aren't the best, they are from a cell phone, but the best way to describe the spots is they look like dry water stains and it's underneath the top layer. Also, to add insult to injury, a family member just passed by and saw my car baking in the sun, after they promised it would be kept indoors. I told them I garage my cars!

[DocVoxel]

Tell them you want a new car and to be compensated for the inconvenience. The paperwork has probably not even been transmited to BMW yet. If you get any flack, contact BMW and/or an attorney. Under no circumstances should should you accept a damaged vehicle or one that has been repainted.

[DocVoxel]

As a former detailer, there is no way to remove imperfections trapped beneath clear coat. Either what you are seeing is within the clear coat and can be clayed/compounded out or is beneath the clear coat (less likely) and is a factory defect or the result of some work that was done at the port or at the dealers body shop (if the car suffered transport damage). Damage beneath the clear coat involves prepping and refinishing the panel.

[DocVoxel]

Furthermore, there is no need to wait to try to correct as factory paint is already cured at delivery.

[nany82]

Originally Posted by DocVoxel

Tell them you want a new car and to be compensated for the inconvenience. The paperwork has probably not even been transmited to BMW yet. If you get any flack, contact BMW and/or an attorney. Under no circumstances should should you accept a damaged vehicle or one that has been repainted.

Thanks for the input!

[nany82]

Ok so, I called to make an appointment with the GM. Also, my CA text me that the car looks great. I asked him what did they determine the spots to be and how the repair was done, and he replied that maybe the wax they applied was bad and they redid it by hand. I remind him that the spots were WITHIN the clear coat and he now says it was on top, NOT TRUE, I have different pics that show left over wax on seams but on flat surfaces there was shine on top of spots. It could not be rubbed/cleaned off, plus the "WE OWE" states spots WITHIN clear coat.

ANY more suggestions/tips on how to approach the situation? Thanks in advance!

[Jake.M18]

Ive seen this time and time again its the paint on the car its the sensitivity of the clear coat on these cars and most likely the spots you were seeing where just water spots. I worked in the delivery department at BMW and i saw this all the time if im correct you could see like a glaze of water spots on the top of the paint which from my experience is no big deal just have them clay bar the car and apply paint protection or perform a three step buff. When the cars come off the trucks they are checked in PDI and then sent to detail and a detail is nothing but a wash and wax nothing more. Sometimes even waxed poorly. Just recommened the clay bar and paint protection to them but dont pay for it and if tht doesnt work then it is a defect from the factory. Hope tht helps keep us posted.

[nany82]

Thanks for the input. The thing is that the spots that appeared to be water spots, were visibly under the surface/first layer, which I'm guessing is the clear coat. I will post pics as soon as I get home, but you could see a gloss/shine over the spots. There was also wax on the seams and you can see the texture and it was ON TOP of the clear coat. And when I tried cleaning the spots with a cloth, they still wouldn't come off. The dealership had to keep the car because I was definitely not taking it off the lot like that. EVEN they acknowledged the spots were within the clear coat (on paper) and now they are saying it wasn't.

[Jake.M18]

Well i recommend you see what they do trust me no dealership is going to take a whole new car and repaint or clear coat the car its just not worth the cost. Be optimistic if they say they got it out check and see if not just get a another one and tell thm to rush it cause they can.

[ddogg35]

It sounds like you need a good independant detailer, paid for by BMW of course, to fix the paint for you.

[nany82]

https://picasaweb.google.com/nany82/...eat=directlink

[nany82]

Thanks to those who already responded. Anyone else with advice? I am trying to figure this out by Monday.

[Lezam]

Don't accept anything less than perfection for the car you just bought.... you're giving them good money for the privilege

[DocVoxel]

Tell them to keep it and get you new car. Looks like contaminant under clear. Nothing anyone is going to do short of repaint and that is unacceptable on new car.

[JunkStory]

At first I thought you were talking about water spots, but after looking at the pictures, I see a defective product. Definitely not acceptable. Maybe fine on a Honda civic or a Hyundai, but not a BMW.

[SpainBimmerology]

What dealership?

[nany82]

Thanks for the support guys, but does anyone have any ideas on how to approach the situation. I will meet with the GM hopefully tomorrow. I just don't want them to try to BS me and win.

I guess I want to know what you guys would say if it were you talking to the GM.

I don't want to directly name the dealership and put them on blast just yet.

[CJ421]

Yeah wow. You might post this in the detailing forum and see what pros say.

The paint doesn't need time to cure, it is baked at the factory and is ready to go.

On way or another it sounds like the dealership is treating you fairly, giving you a loaner and trying to fix it. If it really is a problem with the paint, then that's the factory's fault obviously, not the dealer's.

[DocVoxel]

I was a professional detailer for years, and still do my own vehicles. From the look of the photos, you have a defective paint job. DO NOT ACCEPT THE VEHICLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. A reputable dealer should make the same determination, have BMW inspect it and order/locate you a new car while they provide you with a loaner. I wouldn't accept the car even if it was in the clear and could be compounded out as the damage is too diffuse. You ordered a NEW car with a factory finish, period.

[toxik]

what's the point of that BMW VPC centers they have at the port if they let a car like this through?