[driverman]

I want to remove minor to moderate swirls, scratches and watermarks from the cars in my family and end up with great finishes. I'll leave the heavy stuff to the pros.

I'm seeking recommendations from the pros. Is this a good starter package for someone that's serious about doing a good job?

- Porter Cable 7424XP
- Lake Country 5" and 3.5" DA backing plates
- Lake Country 5.5" CCD pads (yellow, orange, white, green, blue)
- Lake Country 4.0" CCD pads (orange, white green)
- Menzerna SIP, Power Finish, Super Finish and Final Polish
- HighLine Meter II (paint thickness gauge)

I thought a lot about whether or not to purchase a paint thickness gauge. Since I want to know how much paint I've got to work with, I've tentatively decided to get the economical HighLine Meter II. It's less than $300. I can't justify a Defelsko gauge.

I realize I need a lot of practice. I'll start on my daughter's old Civic, which needs lots of work. I'll then move to my wife's car. Then, if all goes well, I'll (VERY carefully) tackle light scratches on my E90.

Your advice will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

[Black Sheep]

I am starting to get into this also,

I went with
-Clay Bar
-Porter Cable 7424xp
-LC (Orange,White,Blue) 5.5 w/ Backing plate
-M105 & M205

I'm going to make the switch to Menzerna once I get more practice. Wanted to get some cheaper stuff to use on the cars I'm practicing on. Pick up some Pad lube while your at it

[Bobble]

I'd lose the 5.5 yellow and green pads and substitute a couple red pads for lsp application. If you need more cut than the orange foam can give it would be wise to step up to some surbuf pads instead of the yellow foam (they just don't cut that much than orange). IMO you can also lose one of the Menz polishes if you're doing just your own cars. Again IMO I'd only buy 203,106F and 85RD or in product names Power finish, Super Finish, Final Finish, Again if you need the cut of SIP you might want to consider Megs 105/205 followed by Menz 85RD and that combo is significantly less expensive than the four Menz polishes. Again this is all with the statement of leaving the heavy stuff to the pros although 105 is a pretty abrasive polish that should remove most marring, anything more than that requires a rotary and some serious skill neither of which I have.

[driverman]

Originally Posted by Bobble

I'd lose the 5.5 yellow and green pads and substitute a couple red pads for lsp application. If you need more cut than the orange foam can give it would be wise to step up to some surbuf pads instead of the yellow foam (they just don't cut that much than orange). IMO you can also lose one of the Menz polishes if you're doing just your own cars. Again IMO I'd only buy 203,106F and 85RD or in product names Power finish, Super Finish, Final Finish, Again if you need the cut of SIP you might want to consider Megs 105/205 followed by Menz 85RD and that combo is significantly less expensive than the four Menz polishes. Again this is all with the statement of leaving the heavy stuff to the pros although 105 is a pretty abrasive polish that should remove most marring, anything more than that requires a rotary and some serious skill neither of which I have.

Thanks Bobble. Makes sense. Here's the revised list sticking with Menzerna:

- Porter Cable 7424XP
- Lake Country 5" and 3.5" DA backing plates
- Lake Country 5.5" CCD pads (orange, white, blue, red)
- Lake Country 4.0" CCD pads (orange, white, red)
- Menzerna Power Finish (PO203S), Super Finish (PO106FA) and Final Polish (PO85RD)
- HighLine Meter II (paint thickness gauge)

[Envious Eric]

Scratch those pads altogether!!! The CCS pads SUCK (I assume you mean CCS, not CCD). The pockets re-introduce prodcut at times when you dont need it forcing you to continue polishing. Get the LC flat pads instead: orange, white, black, blue. Get some surbuf pads as well. I highly recommend 4 of the surbuf and orange, 3-4 white, 2-3 black, 1-2 blue. Its easier to just swap pads than it is to sit there and clean them out before re-using.

polishes:
meguiars 105
menzerna 203
menzerna 85rd

Combine those polishes with those pads and you shouldnt have any issues finding the right combo!

[dday]

Paint thickness gauge seems a bit overkill for a weekend detailer.

[driverman]

Originally Posted by Envious Eric

Scratch those pads altogether!!! The CCS pads SUCK (I assume you mean CCS, not CCD). The pockets re-introduce prodcut at times when you dont need it forcing you to continue polishing. Get the LC flat pads instead: orange, white, black, blue. Get some surbuf pads as well. I highly recommend 4 of the surbuf and orange, 3-4 white, 2-3 black, 1-2 blue. Its easier to just swap pads than it is to sit there and clean them out before re-using.

polishes:
meguiars 105
menzerna 203
menzerna 85rd

Combine those polishes with those pads and you shouldnt have any issues finding the right combo!

Thanks for your input.

I saw many different kinds of pads on Lake Country's site, including some for DA polishers. I then Google'd Porter Cable 7424XP kits. Every kit I saw came with the CCS pads except Detalied Image. So on one hand, Lake Country recommended special pads (not CCS) for DA polishers and Detailed Image kits came with flat pads. On the other hand, all the other kits I found came with CCS pads.

Some of the kits come with 6.5" pads; others come with 5.5" pads.

[Envious Eric]

with a PC, you want the smaller 5.5" pads as you will get better results since the machine oscillates. the bigger the pad, the longer the throw, the more surface area will be "touched, but not polished" (outer edges).

[Black Sheep]

Originally Posted by Envious Eric

with a PC, you want the smaller 5.5" pads as you will get better results since the machine oscillates. the bigger the pad, the longer the throw, the more surface area will be "touched, but not polished" (outer edges).

[driverman]

I've done more research. Here is my new list:

- Flex XC3401 VRG polisher
- Lake Country 6.5" pads (orange, white, gray, blue)
- Menzerna Power Finish (PO203S), Super Finish (PO106FA) and Final Polish (PO85RD)

How's it look?

I dropped the aggressive pads and polishes because I want to leave the heavy stuff to the pros, at least for now. I THINK I can get by without a PTG because I won't be removing much clear coat. Is this a good assumption with careful use of orange pads and PO203S?

I know. I know. The Flex is overkill for a weekend detailer, but I love nice tools. I'll do a little extra work to pay the difference.

Many thanks to everyone.

[twinturboa51]

Originally Posted by driverman

I've done more research. Here is my new list:

- Flex XC3401 VRG polisher
- Lake Country 6.5" pads (orange, white, gray, blue)
- Menzerna Power Finish (PO203S), Super Finish (PO106FA) and Final Polish (PO85RD)

How's it look?

I dropped the aggressive pads and polishes because I want to leave the heavy stuff to the pros, at least for now. I THINK I can get by without a PTG because I won't be removing much clear coat. Is this a good assumption with careful use of orange pads and PO203S?

I know. I know. The Flex is overkill for a weekend detailer, but I love nice tools. I'll do a little extra work to pay the difference.

Many thanks to everyone.

Looks like a better kit than you had before! Flex is a nice machine, i have only used it once though

[RevC]

5.5 pads, NOT CCS! reg LC pads orange,black,white,blue and you're good.
i like menzerna but don't get into it until you know what you're doing. start with m205/105 if you need heavy correction.

[Envious Eric]

Originally Posted by RevC

5.5 pads, NOT CCS! reg LC pads orange,black,white,blue and you're good.
i like menzerna but don't get into it until you know what you're doing. start with m205/105 if you need heavy correction.

menzerna works better than 205 IMO

To the OP, you dont need 203, 106, and 85rd. 203 finishes down like 106, so you can go 203 > 85rd. you may not even need to follow up with 85rd if you dont want to as it finishes down pretty well!

I agree though, get the 5.5" flat pads from detailed image here

[driverman]

Originally Posted by Envious Eric

menzerna works better than 205 IMO

To the OP, you dont need 203, 106, and 85rd. 203 finishes down like 106, so you can go 203 > 85rd. you may not even need to follow up with 85rd if you dont want to as it finishes down pretty well!

I agree though, get the 5.5" flat pads from detailed image here

Thanks for the tips. If I get the Flex XC3401 VRG, I'll have to get 6.5" pads.

[Raman335i]

Originally Posted by driverman

Thanks for the tips. If I get the Flex XC3401 VRG, I'll have to get 6.5" pads.

I'm in the same boat, did you make your order yet? What'd you end up getting?

[driverman]

Originally Posted by Raman335i

I'm in the same boat, did you make your order yet? What'd you end up getting?

I just ordered the following from Detailed Image:

- Flex XC3401VRG 2 Step Menzerna Package (Menzerna SIP (PO83) + Super Finish (PO106FA), 2 LC orange + 2 LC white)
- Menzerna Micro Polish (PO85RD)
- Lake Country Black - 6.5 inch
- Lake Country Blue - 6.5 inch
- Lake Country Green - 6.5 inch

I had a few questions and Greg from DI was very helpful.

[x3man1994]

Get some surbuf bads too.

[dday]

Originally Posted by x3man1994

Get some surbuf bads too.

have you personally used them? I'm not trying to rag on you too hard here, but just a couple weeks ago you were asking tons of detailing advice here. Lately you seem to respond to every single detailing post, recommending products. If you haven't used something personally it's not really helpful.

[cracker123]

I also got the Flex VRG 4" backing plate. So you can get smaller pads. Also Lake Country Gold Pad for sealant application.

http://www.autogeek.net/gold-da-pad.html
http://www.autogeek.net/flex-xc3401-...ing-plate.html

[driverman]

I will do the same. Thanks.

[ScheerSpeed]

No need for a paint gauge if you are using a PC machine

[driverman]

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

No need for a paint gauge if you are using a PC machine

Thanks ScheerSpeed. I've enjoyed viewing the detailing jobs you've posted over the years.

This gives me an opportunity to ask a pro about paint thickness and how much we can safely remove. Based on my research (not actual experience) ....

- New cars come with 100-180 microns of paint, including primer, color and clear coats.
- The clear coat is 35-50 microns.
- Most auto manufacturers recommend that a maximum of 8 microns of clear coat be removed to protect against UV damage. One article suggests 12 microns can be removed.
- Light compounding removes 1-2 microns. Heavy compounding removes about 3 microns.

Given all of that, a new car can handle 3-4 heavy compoundings over its life. If we work on our own car that we bought new, we'll know the history of the car. But if we work on someone else's car or a car we bought used, we won't know the history of the car. Doing a moderate or major paint correction on such a car without a paint thickness gauge seems risky.

What do the pros think? They've learned by actual experience.

Many thanks.

NOTE: I started a new thread (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569934) on paint correction and its effects on clear coat thickness.