Hey shiv,just a though

grkm3 · 04-19-2007, 02:15 PM

I havnt been in a tuned 335 yet but it got me thinking.With all that low end grunt does the car feel weird losing torque as you rev it?My brother has a tuned s4 and I hate how you feel it lose torque after the low peak.

could you maybe make a map that has the car build torque like a supercharged M3?That way the car will make more and more torque as you rev it and always feels faster with the revs.

It would be eisier to launch the car also with lower torque down low.

I drew a quick paint shop over one of your dynos and threw in some maps I would be intersted in.

check it out

DanMardik · 04-19-2007, 02:17 PM

hmm, more like a naturally aspirated feel....

grkm3 · 04-19-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanMardik

hmm, more like a naturally aspirated feel....

exactly...because once you feel that torque your always going to want more lol...but if you never get that huge low end rush but let the car build it with revs it will feel faster like a NA pull.

bmwzimmer · 04-19-2007, 02:27 PM

I like it just the way it is. It's fantastic for normal day to day driving

CoralRedPlz · 04-19-2007, 02:28 PM

shiv's product just enhances the engine, im pretty sure it cant change it completely like that. and for daily driving, the way it is is way better.

sstarch1 · 04-19-2007, 02:32 PM

I think he COULD map enginer response to mimic such a curve, but ask your self this, why would ANYONE want to limit the torque on their car, just so it "feels" faster? when in reality, you know it could actually BE faster...?

bmwzimmer · 04-19-2007, 02:34 PM

If I wanted less power, I'd get a 328

grkm3 · 04-19-2007, 02:38 PM

to the guys that dont like it..Its not about a peak numbers from 1-3k that I can brag about...Its about having a car feel more like a NA car and not have you wanting more torque in the mid and upper range.

I havnt been in a car with a procede but the stock car feels flat like an NA car

the procede gives the car huge torque down low and basically falls on its face past 5k

I would rather have the car build up it power band with revs(like the stock car does)and you would be suprised that the car would be quicker because it will get traction down low.

grkm3 · 04-19-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

If I wanted less power, I'd get a 328

do you have a procede in your car?

sflgator · 04-19-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanMardik

hmm, more like a naturally aspirated feel....

It's funny b/c one of the negatives of NA engines like the Nissan/Infiniti VQ is its lack of low-end TQ; you really need to wind it up to ~ 4k+rpm to feel the TQ on the G35, 350Z, etc. So, when BMW came out with the 335i and its N54 FI tt engine with major TQ all the way down low from 1,500rpm - 5,000rpm (and of course, the PROcede extends that TQ to 6k rpm), everyone applauded.

Personally, I think having a good amount of TQ down low and through most of the rpm band is absolutely amazing (and I came from a G35 and FX35 with the VQ engine)!

If you haven't already had the opportunity, I'd suggest you try to take a ride in a PROcede-equipped 335i, and see if you rethink your position.

merritt · 04-19-2007, 02:42 PM

If you want to move the torque peak, (without changing engine internals) use bigger turbos. Peak torque occurs with peak volumetric efficiency. How about this?

2.6 L inline 6 motor with big single GT42R turbo.

bmwzimmer · 04-19-2007, 02:44 PM

Ouch, Turbo Lag!!!!

grkm3 · 04-19-2007, 02:46 PM

lol I was just searching around and read some info on the latest MAP it is exactly what im asking for.less torque down low and more in the mid range lol

ArmyBimmerDude · 04-19-2007, 02:47 PM

2.6 L inline 6 motor with big single GT42R turbo.

Nissan?

sflgator · 04-19-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grkm3

lol I was just searching around and read some info on the latest MAP it is exactly what im asking for.less torque down low and more in the mid range lol

Well, sort of...in the latest PROcede v1.4 s/w, Shiv did add more TQ at 3k rpm and a little less at 2k rpm, but you still have A LOT of TQ down low.

Don't kid yourself on that.

grkm3 · 04-19-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflgator

Well, sort of...in the latest PROcede v1.4 s/w, Shiv did add more TQ at 3k rpm and a little less at 2k rpm, but you still have A LOT of TQ down low.

Don't kid yourself on that.

Is there any dynos of the v1.4 map...I read one thread but the guy just put up numbers with no pics.

I'm not kidding myself look at the plots I drew,there is plenty of torque down low.It just builds it in a liniar way.

HyperM3 · 04-19-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grkm3

Is there any dynos of the v1.4 map...I read one thread but the guy just put up numbers with no pics.

I'm not kidding myself look at the plots I drew,there is plenty of torque down low.It just builds it in a liniar way.

Ill try to post some next friday at the dyno day if they havent been posted by then.

sstarch1 · 04-19-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grkm3

the procede gives the car huge torque down low and basically falls on its face past 5k

By the Dyno graph you showed, the car has 300 ft-llbs of torque to the wheels untill 6000 RPM, i dont think that falls flat on anyone's face.

I really think a drive in a Procede will help clear this up for you..

sflgator · 04-19-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstarch1

By the Dyno graph you showed, the car has 300 ft-llbs of torque to the wheels untill 6000 RPM, i dont think that falls flat on anyone's face.

I really think a drive in a Procede will help clear this up for you..

Yes, the TQ drop-off on a stock 335i is at 5k rpm, but Shiv set the PROcede to give it greater TQ until 6k rpm where it drops off (redline is at 7k)....so, he actually gave the PROcede-equipped 335i more HP and TQ past 5k rpm, all the way to 6k rpm!

I agree that the OP needs to take a test drive in a PROcede-equipped 335i...I'm fairly confident he won't be questioning the TQ (through the rpm band) of the PROcede-equipped 335i after that.

BoostedBMW · 04-19-2007, 05:07 PM

Some bigger turbos would give you what your looking for. They would induce some lag, but would hit harder later in the RPM range. With two tiny turbos that were made to be lag free its hard not to get so much torque when they were made to do exactly that. If you want to change how the engine makes power, you have to change the hardware that is causing it.

Walked U · 04-19-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merritt

If you want to move the torque peak, (without changing engine internals) use bigger turbos. Peak torque occurs with peak volumetric efficiency. How about this?

2.6 L inline 6 motor with big single GT42R turbo.

Looks like vtech.

Shit thats fast

turbocoins · 04-19-2007, 06:40 PM

You would need a supercharger to build that power down low, or nitrous, or a larger block. The turbo has to build up exhaust gas pressure, so it doesn't give the down low grunt like a supercharger, even with a larger turbo.

No reason to limit what the turbo puts out in the higher RPMs, because you won't gain it back in the lower RPMs. Other than the above options, you're not going to get tremendous torque in the low RPMs with a 3.0 L motor.

04-19-2007, 02:15 PM	#1
grkm3 Lieutenant 22 Rep 455 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Hey shiv,just a though I havnt been in a tuned 335 yet but it got me thinking.With all that low end grunt does the car feel weird losing torque as you rev it?My brother has a tuned s4 and I hate how you feel it lose torque after the low peak. could you maybe make a map that has the car build torque like a supercharged M3?That way the car will make more and more torque as you rev it and always feels faster with the revs. It would be eisier to launch the car also with lower torque down low. I drew a quick paint shop over one of your dynos and threw in some maps I would be intersted in. check it out
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04-19-2007, 02:17 PM	#2
DanMardik Captain 17 Rep 729 Posts Drives: 08 INFINITI G37S Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (0)	hmm, more like a naturally aspirated feel.... __________________ *RIP 2007 335i Sedan*
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04-19-2007, 02:27 PM	#4
bmwzimmer Major 39 Rep 1,084 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 91 octane states iTrader: (0)	I like it just the way it is. It's fantastic for normal day to day driving
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04-19-2007, 02:28 PM	#5
CoralRedPlz restless 7 Rep 484 Posts Drives: Space Grey, Coral Red 335i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: around town iTrader: (0)	shiv's product just enhances the engine, im pretty sure it cant change it completely like that. and for daily driving, the way it is is way better. __________________ 335i space, coral/gray poplar, step, loaded, but with no AS, AC or rear shade. Front lip painted and installed and springs going on this week. pics coming soon.
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04-19-2007, 02:32 PM	#6
sstarch1 From Russia With Boost 37 Rep 1,076 Posts Drives: E92 335i - Vroom Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 335i [0.00]	I think he COULD map enginer response to mimic such a curve, but ask your self this, why would ANYONE want to limit the torque on their car, just so it "feels" faster? when in reality, you know it could actually BE faster...? __________________ 2007 BMW 335i - Delivered 9/8/06 Sparkling Grpahite with Black Leather/Aluminum Trim Premium Package, Sports Package, Comfort Access.
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04-19-2007, 02:34 PM	#7
bmwzimmer Major 39 Rep 1,084 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 91 octane states iTrader: (0)	If I wanted less power, I'd get a 328
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04-19-2007, 02:38 PM	#8
grkm3 Lieutenant 22 Rep 455 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	to the guys that dont like it..Its not about a peak numbers from 1-3k that I can brag about...Its about having a car feel more like a NA car and not have you wanting more torque in the mid and upper range. I havnt been in a car with a procede but the stock car feels flat like an NA car the procede gives the car huge torque down low and basically falls on its face past 5k I would rather have the car build up it power band with revs(like the stock car does)and you would be suprised that the car would be quicker because it will get traction down low.
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04-19-2007, 02:42 PM	#11
merritt enginerd 4 Rep 60 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Coupe Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0)	If you want to move the torque peak, (without changing engine internals) use bigger turbos. Peak torque occurs with peak volumetric efficiency. How about this? 2.6 L inline 6 motor with big single GT42R turbo. __________________ merritr.com turboneticsinc.com
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04-19-2007, 02:44 PM	#12
bmwzimmer Major 39 Rep 1,084 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 91 octane states iTrader: (0)	Ouch, Turbo Lag!!!!
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04-19-2007, 02:46 PM	#13
grkm3 Lieutenant 22 Rep 455 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	lol I was just searching around and read some info on the latest MAP it is exactly what im asking for.less torque down low and more in the mid range lol
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04-19-2007, 02:47 PM	#14
ArmyBimmerDude Major General 156 Rep 5,497 Posts Drives: Lola Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Georgia iTrader: (3) Garage List 02/2007 E92 335i [0.00]	2.6 L inline 6 motor with big single GT42R turbo. Nissan? __________________ 2007 E92 Montego Blue 335i
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04-19-2007, 05:07 PM	#20
BoostedBMW Moderator 134 Rep 6,775 Posts Drives: TiAg E92 335 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC iTrader: (14) Garage List 2003 S2000 [0.00]	Some bigger turbos would give you what your looking for. They would induce some lag, but would hit harder later in the RPM range. With two tiny turbos that were made to be lag free its hard not to get so much torque when they were made to do exactly that. If you want to change how the engine makes power, you have to change the hardware that is causing it. __________________ -Michael. Berlina Black S2000 CR is now in the garage l 19" Rial Daytona Race l KW V2 l Eisenhaus Race Exhaust l
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04-19-2007, 06:40 PM	#22
turbocoins Captain 18 Rep 749 Posts Drives: '08 Z06, '07 MKZ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warm Climate iTrader: (0)	You would need a supercharger to build that power down low, or nitrous, or a larger block. The turbo has to build up exhaust gas pressure, so it doesn't give the down low grunt like a supercharger, even with a larger turbo. No reason to limit what the turbo puts out in the higher RPMs, because you won't gain it back in the lower RPMs. Other than the above options, you're not going to get tremendous torque in the low RPMs with a 3.0 L motor.
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