Spark Plug DIY Disaster (Beware of the Schwaben Socket) and rough idle

bavaddict · 10-19-2011, 10:03 PM

Hi All:

Just did my spark plug DIY(which turned out to be a disaster). See details below and yes its kinda a long

By the time I got to cylinder # 5 (second closest to the firewall) my cheapo made in china Schwaben socket (purchased from a sponsor here) decided to shatter its thin slimy magnetic o ring. Moreover, I only found out that it was broken after I had removed the spark plug from cylinder # 6. To top it up since the magnetic ring had shattered, spark plug # 6 fell off somewhere at the bottom of the chassis. After much looking around under the hoist i decided to give up and hope it will fell off.

Next, I managed to send a automotive camera/scope down the two chambers #5 and #5 and pick up all the bits and pieces with its magnetic attachment. I found the chamber to be pretty carbon'd up. Is it normal for these motors? This is my first time seeing the internals so hopefully someone can confirm.

Now to put the plugs back on I removed the shattered magnetic o ring and the brass ring that holds it in place and jigged up a thick rubber sleeve (from another spark plug socket) in and managed to put the plugs back in.

Here is the pic of the tool gone wrong

. All the pieces of magnet I could collect/have are lumped up and hanging at the front. The rubber sleeve i took from another socket can be seen inside.

Here are my plugs 1 through 5 (Right to Left). I think they look ok, given that 30,000 out of 80,000 KM were on a tune. What do you think?

Now I am having weird idling issues where motor just revs up from its normal 650rpm to 800-900rpm range. After getting a scan to see what the computer may have logged, there is no misfire or any other codes recorded.

As a precaution I took the plugs and coils out again and re seated them again and made sure all the cables were placed correctly. I noticed that all plugs seem to be firing at the least.

My injectors and HPFP were replaced 4 months ago via BMW recall, so I dont' think it can be injectors. Additionally, I have attempted to reset adaptation values via key in on position and holding start button till all lights come on > holding gas pedal for 30 seconds > pressing the start button again while holding gas pedal. But same issue, after she is warmed up rpm keep fluctuating from 650rpm sweet spot to 800-900rpm on ideal.

NOTE: I am out of warranty

Any advice what I can do next? I have searched and it seems some have replaced injectors while others are still searching.

Thanks.

Will335i · 10-19-2011, 10:07 PM

Slightly off topic but what size is the socket?

mithiral67 · 10-19-2011, 10:10 PM

Changed mine 3 weeks ago after 35k miles. The plugs looked similar. The biggest thing I noticed between the two was the gap on the old plugs were much larger thant the new ones. Like the metal had been corroded away.

bavaddict · 10-19-2011, 10:12 PM

Its 14 mm socket but not your standard hex but a 12 point socket and thinner profile.

bavaddict · 10-19-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mithiral67

Changed mine 3 weeks ago after 35k miles. The plugs looked similar. The biggest thing I noticed between the two was the gap on the old plugs were much larger thant the new ones. Like the metal had been corroded away.

Did you have any rough idling issues after? Did you use the genuine BMW plugs OR Bosch OEM replacement (which was my case)?

mithiral67 · 10-19-2011, 10:36 PM

I used the oem kit from Tischer. I had random blips were i "felt" a blip in rpms, but no real movement. Its settle down now and I dont notice it.

ren · 10-20-2011, 12:41 AM

I had the same blips after I replaced my plugs. I tried resetting adaptations but it did not help. It would start with a few blips, and then the engine would raise the idle rpm to 850 or so until I restart the engine. I never had codes.
Lately, after 5k miles, I haven't noticed the blips any more. I don't know what has changed. I used the replacement plugs without the BMW logo.

taylors335 · 10-20-2011, 01:07 AM

shoulda bought the SNAP-ON TOOLS socket !!!!

335i E92 · 10-20-2011, 05:09 AM

(Like your post mines a bit of an essay)

I replaced my plugs just over a year ago and immediately the car developed a rough idle.

On idle the car will misfire and shake / shiver every 5 seconds or so. When this happens and when the car is warm the rev’s will jump from the normal 600rpm to 750rpm and hold there until I restart the car. It as if the ECU raises the tick over as if to try to compensate for the misfires. Not once over the last year had my car thrown a code to indicate where the problem lies. My symptoms are all at idle, not once has it misfired under load.

Rough idles on the n54 are quite common and I have spent the last year trawling countless threads to try to find a solution.

From doing so much re-search my conclusion is that people experience these shakes & shivers on idle for many different reasons so there isn’t a one off single explanation or fix. Some found a fix with new injectors, other are saying new HPFP or coils.

Since I changed my plugs for the 1st time at 40k miles 12 months ago I immediately got this rough idle. To try to rectify the rough idle I’ve had the below changed, none of which solved the issue.

• X2 further sets of plugs
• X6 New Coils
• X6 Injectors
• X1 Low pressure fuel sensor
• A full engine out head off decarb and rebuild.
• Countless adaptation resets

The biggest clue that you and I have is that this happened IMMEDIATELY after changing the plugs. Because of this please don’t make the same mistake as I did by swapping everything out. I’m out of warranty now but luckily for me most of the above I managed to get under goodwill.

Yours and my problem is DEFINATLEY related to the plugs. Both rough idles have happened once swapping out the original plugs that had eroded away considerably.

Situation:

When you then change the heavily eroded original plugs for brand new ones the ECU struggles to adapt to the difference in plug gap. Even after resetting every single adaptation know to the n54 the ECU still can’t adjust itself enough to rectify the idle misfire.

Remedy:

When fitting new plugs re-gap them to something close to the eroded originals.

I’m booked in to my local Indy to get my plugs gapped out very slightly next week. After going though the mill of swapping everything out over the last year I’m going back to the part that caused the problem in the 1st place ‘THE PLUGS’.

I’ve read a few threads on here that have discussed this as a fix to this rough idle. I just wish I had spent more time in that area when trying to find a fix instead of swapping everything out

If I can help anyone else from going through the same torment as me then it will at least have been worth something.

I’ll let you know the results next week.

Possibly the longest post I’ve ever written. Lol!!

geterdone · 10-20-2011, 06:24 AM

Your suppose to take the magnet out.

G0FNDM3 · 10-20-2011, 07:29 AM

Good info guys. I'm looking to change my spark plugs and coils sometime next month. BTW how do you regap these type of plugs?

335i E92 · 10-20-2011, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLKLYZ

Good info guys. I'm looking to change my spark plugs and coils sometime next month. BTW how do you regap these type of plugs?

In the same way as a normal plug i would have thought, although with it having 3 prongs it'll be a fairly tedious job. I'm booked in next Friday to get it done so i'll let you know how i get on and how they do it

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335coupe2007

I have heard from many sources that youre supposed to get the spark plugs coded to your car?! and the only people who can code it is either bmw or indy shops with a machine called an Autologic machine? I dont know much about these cars ( honestly) thats why im on this site to learn. Did you happen to get your plugs coded OP just out of curiosity because i noticed u didnt mention that!!.. ( i guess im really wondering what would happen if you didnt get your plugs coded before installing it?!) hmm.

I've had every possible adaption reset at both the main dealer and my local indy with no success.

scottp999 · 10-20-2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335coupe2007

I have heard from many sources that youre supposed to get the spark plugs coded to your car?!

No coding for plugs or coils, just for the injectors.

kaigoss69 · 10-20-2011, 08:36 AM

WTF, should I have the dealer change my plugs? I have already bought them...

BMWsky · 10-20-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

WTF, should I have the dealer change my plugs? I have already bought them...

No need, if you have the correct tools and 20 extra minutes you're golden.

335i E92 · 10-20-2011, 08:41 AM

As in my above post I've tried every posible fix so the gapping of the spark plugs is my last resort and most likley fix.

I recently bought a BT cable so i could try the below MR5's adaptation reset. It didn't work for me but it has worked for some. Probably worth ago if you have a BT cable before you try the regapping.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386376

335i E92 · 10-20-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

WTF, should I have the dealer change my plugs? I have already bought them...

As scottp999 said, only injectors need coding.

boom · 10-20-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335i E92

(Like your post mines a bit of an essay)

I replaced my plugs just over a year ago and immediately the car developed a rough idle.

On idle the car will misfire and shake / shiver every 5 seconds or so. When this happens and when the car is warm the rev’s will jump from the normal 600rpm to 750rpm and hold there until I restart the car. It as if the ECU raises the tick over as if to try to compensate for the misfires. Not once over the last year had my car thrown a code to indicate where the problem lies. My symptoms are all at idle, not once has it misfired under load.

Rough idles on the n54 are quite common and I have spent the last year trawling countless threads to try to find a solution.

From doing so much re-search my conclusion is that people experience these shakes & shivers on idle for many different reasons so there isn’t a one off single explanation or fix. Some found a fix with new injectors, other are saying new HPFP or coils.

Since I changed my plugs for the 1st time at 40k miles 12 months ago I immediately got this rough idle. To try to rectify the rough idle I’ve had the below changed, none of which solved the issue.

• X2 further sets of plugs
• X6 New Coils
• X6 Injectors
• X1 Low pressure fuel sensor
• A full engine out head off decarb and rebuild.
• Countless adaptation resets

The biggest clue that you and I have is that this happened IMMEDIATELY after changing the plugs. Because of this please don’t make the same mistake as I did by swapping everything out. I’m out of warranty now but luckily for me most of the above I managed to get under goodwill.

Yours and my problem is DEFINATLEY related to the plugs. Both rough idles have happened once swapping out the original plugs that had eroded away considerably.

Situation:

When you then change the heavily eroded original plugs for brand new ones the ECU struggles to adapt to the difference in plug gap. Even after resetting every single adaptation know to the n54 the ECU still can’t adjust itself enough to rectify the idle misfire.

Remedy:

When fitting new plugs re-gap them to something close to the eroded originals.

I’m booked in to my local Indy to get my plugs gapped out very slightly next week. After going though the mill of swapping everything out over the last year I’m going back to the part that caused the problem in the 1st place ‘THE PLUGS’.

I’ve read a few threads on here that have discussed this as a fix to this rough idle. I just wish I had spent more time in that area when trying to find a fix instead of swapping everything out

If I can help anyone else from going through the same torment as me then it will at least have been worth something.

I’ll let you know the results next week.

Possibly the longest post I’ve ever written. Lol!!

I'd bet money that you've got a bad circuit in your dme.

GeorgiaTech335coupe · 10-20-2011, 10:15 AM

IMO I wouldn't regap the plugs. Think about how many people have changed their plugs out with the stock gap and their cars run fine. I'd be willing to be that it is an adaptation issue, that may work itself out over a little time.

Another thing to consider - a wider gap may help give a smoother idle, but how is that going to affect combustion during WOT at 6000+ rpm?

335i E92 · 10-20-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boom

I'd bet money that you've got a bad circuit in your dme.

I thought this and even had a full DME reset to BMW's latest software version, car still had a rough idle when finished.

Also the rough idle was immediately after changing the plugs, it would need to unbelievably unlucky that i suddenly gained a bad ECU circuit the second i changed the plugs?

Tzu · 10-20-2011, 10:28 AM

Find Dzenno's therad about misfiring. He had a misfire in cyl 5 I beleive, which he spent many many $$$ trying to fix. The solution was to gap the plugs. Albiet, I'm sure his was exaggerated by the high power he was making.

335i E92 · 10-20-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335coupe

IMO I wouldn't regap the plugs. Think about how many people have changed their plugs out with the stock gap and their cars run fine. I'd be willing to be that it is an adaptation issue, that may work itself out over a little time.

Another thing to consider - a wider gap may help give a smoother idle, but how is that going to affect combustion during WOT at 6000+ rpm?

Agreed, it does seem odd that most get new plugs with no issue.

However the fact is there are plenty out there in my boat that very much have the issue straight after a plug change from original plugs that all adaptation (inc stratification) have not fixed, even after 1000's miles past the reset.

I agree also that you need to air caution when gapping them that you don't gap too far as this will cause problem during hi rev's & boost. When i get mine re-gapped next week they will be only be adjusting them a fraction to se if there is any improvement at all. If we show an improvement then were on the right line and will adjust further to a gap that eradicates the misfires completely.

I'm booked in next Friday so this theory will either be proven or written off. I'm also running a tune (375 bhp) so will know pretty quickly if its effecting higher levels of boost when re-gapped.

I'm happy to be the guinea pig here!!

10-19-2011, 10:03 PM	#1
bavaddict Lieutenant 54 Rep 443 Posts Drives: F32 435i MPerf Edit Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Coast iTrader: (0)	Spark Plug DIY Disaster (Beware of the Schwaben Socket) and rough idle Hi All: Just did my spark plug DIY(which turned out to be a disaster). See details below and yes its kinda a long By the time I got to cylinder # 5 (second closest to the firewall) my cheapo made in china Schwaben socket (purchased from a sponsor here) decided to shatter its thin slimy magnetic o ring. Moreover, I only found out that it was broken after I had removed the spark plug from cylinder # 6. To top it up since the magnetic ring had shattered, spark plug # 6 fell off somewhere at the bottom of the chassis. After much looking around under the hoist i decided to give up and hope it will fell off. Next, I managed to send a automotive camera/scope down the two chambers #5 and #5 and pick up all the bits and pieces with its magnetic attachment. I found the chamber to be pretty carbon'd up. Is it normal for these motors? This is my first time seeing the internals so hopefully someone can confirm. Now to put the plugs back on I removed the shattered magnetic o ring and the brass ring that holds it in place and jigged up a thick rubber sleeve (from another spark plug socket) in and managed to put the plugs back in. Here is the pic of the tool gone wrong . All the pieces of magnet I could collect/have are lumped up and hanging at the front. The rubber sleeve i took from another socket can be seen inside. Here are my plugs 1 through 5 (Right to Left). I think they look ok, given that 30,000 out of 80,000 KM were on a tune. What do you think? Now I am having weird idling issues where motor just revs up from its normal 650rpm to 800-900rpm range. After getting a scan to see what the computer may have logged, there is no misfire or any other codes recorded. As a precaution I took the plugs and coils out again and re seated them again and made sure all the cables were placed correctly. I noticed that all plugs seem to be firing at the least. My injectors and HPFP were replaced 4 months ago via BMW recall, so I dont' think it can be injectors. Additionally, I have attempted to reset adaptation values via key in on position and holding start button till all lights come on > holding gas pedal for 30 seconds > pressing the start button again while holding gas pedal. But same issue, after she is warmed up rpm keep fluctuating from 650rpm sweet spot to 800-900rpm on ideal. NOTE: I am out of warranty Any advice what I can do next? I have searched and it seems some have replaced injectors while others are still searching. Thanks. Last edited by bavaddict; 10-19-2011 at 10:22 PM..
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10-19-2011, 10:07 PM	#2
Will335i The Engineer 27 Rep 331 Posts Drives: AW 07' 335i Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis MO iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 335i e92 [1.00]	Slightly off topic but what size is the socket?
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10-19-2011, 10:10 PM	#3
mithiral67 That guy 120 Rep 5,740 Posts Drives: 2015 Cayman GTS Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago Burbs iTrader: (4) Garage List 2015 Porsche Cayman ... [0.00]	Changed mine 3 weeks ago after 35k miles. The plugs looked similar. The biggest thing I noticed between the two was the gap on the old plugs were much larger thant the new ones. Like the metal had been corroded away.
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10-19-2011, 10:12 PM	#4
bavaddict Lieutenant 54 Rep 443 Posts Drives: F32 435i MPerf Edit Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Coast iTrader: (0)	Its 14 mm socket but not your standard hex but a 12 point socket and thinner profile.
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10-19-2011, 10:36 PM	#6
mithiral67 That guy 120 Rep 5,740 Posts Drives: 2015 Cayman GTS Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago Burbs iTrader: (4) Garage List 2015 Porsche Cayman ... [0.00]	I used the oem kit from Tischer. I had random blips were i "felt" a blip in rpms, but no real movement. Its settle down now and I dont notice it.
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10-20-2011, 12:41 AM	#7
ren Captain 62 Rep 840 Posts Drives: 2024 X7 M60i Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: U.S. iTrader: (8)	I had the same blips after I replaced my plugs. I tried resetting adaptations but it did not help. It would start with a few blips, and then the engine would raise the idle rpm to 850 or so until I restart the engine. I never had codes. Lately, after 5k miles, I haven't noticed the blips any more. I don't know what has changed. I used the replacement plugs without the BMW logo.
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10-20-2011, 01:07 AM	#8
taylors335 Major 29 Rep 1,183 Posts Drives: Space Grey 08 335i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: san diego iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 335i [7.00]	shoulda bought the SNAP-ON TOOLS socket !!!!
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10-20-2011, 05:09 AM	#9
335i E92 Captain 187 Rep 755 Posts Drives: M22 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manchester iTrader: (1)	(Like your post mines a bit of an essay) I replaced my plugs just over a year ago and immediately the car developed a rough idle. On idle the car will misfire and shake / shiver every 5 seconds or so. When this happens and when the car is warm the rev’s will jump from the normal 600rpm to 750rpm and hold there until I restart the car. It as if the ECU raises the tick over as if to try to compensate for the misfires. Not once over the last year had my car thrown a code to indicate where the problem lies. My symptoms are all at idle, not once has it misfired under load. Rough idles on the n54 are quite common and I have spent the last year trawling countless threads to try to find a solution. From doing so much re-search my conclusion is that people experience these shakes & shivers on idle for many different reasons so there isn’t a one off single explanation or fix. Some found a fix with new injectors, other are saying new HPFP or coils. Since I changed my plugs for the 1st time at 40k miles 12 months ago I immediately got this rough idle. To try to rectify the rough idle I’ve had the below changed, none of which solved the issue. • X2 further sets of plugs • X6 New Coils • X6 Injectors • X1 Low pressure fuel sensor • A full engine out head off decarb and rebuild. • Countless adaptation resets The biggest clue that you and I have is that this happened IMMEDIATELY after changing the plugs. Because of this please don’t make the same mistake as I did by swapping everything out. I’m out of warranty now but luckily for me most of the above I managed to get under goodwill. Yours and my problem is DEFINATLEY related to the plugs. Both rough idles have happened once swapping out the original plugs that had eroded away considerably. Situation: When you then change the heavily eroded original plugs for brand new ones the ECU struggles to adapt to the difference in plug gap. Even after resetting every single adaptation know to the n54 the ECU still can’t adjust itself enough to rectify the idle misfire. Remedy: When fitting new plugs re-gap them to something close to the eroded originals. I’m booked in to my local Indy to get my plugs gapped out very slightly next week. After going though the mill of swapping everything out over the last year I’m going back to the part that caused the problem in the 1st place ‘THE PLUGS’. I’ve read a few threads on here that have discussed this as a fix to this rough idle. I just wish I had spent more time in that area when trying to find a fix instead of swapping everything out If I can help anyone else from going through the same torment as me then it will at least have been worth something. I’ll let you know the results next week. Possibly the longest post I’ve ever written. Lol!!
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10-20-2011, 06:24 AM	#10
geterdone Private First Class 6 Rep 144 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Yukon, Oklahoma iTrader: (1)	Your suppose to take the magnet out. Last edited by geterdone; 10-22-2011 at 05:04 AM..
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10-20-2011, 07:29 AM	#11
G0FNDM3 Brigadier General 762 Rep 4,437 Posts Drives: E90 M3 AW Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: FT. Bragg, NC. iTrader: (28) Garage List 2007 335i [9.00]	Good info guys. I'm looking to change my spark plugs and coils sometime next month. BTW how do you regap these type of plugs? __________________ ModeCarbon V1 CF lip/PF AG CF SS ext./ARKYM CF Diffuser/OSS AE's/B&G Springs/CF Performance Spoiler/V2 Led Performance SW/Meisterschaft GT exhaust
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10-20-2011, 08:36 AM	#14
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 301 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	WTF, should I have the dealer change my plugs? I have already bought them... __________________ Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > ARC XDi 600/4 > JBL Gti 408 Mids & Vifa OT19 Tweeters; PG Ti2 1600.5 > Morel HCW-10 & IDMax 15
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10-20-2011, 08:41 AM	#16
335i E92 Captain 187 Rep 755 Posts Drives: M22 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manchester iTrader: (1)	As in my above post I've tried every posible fix so the gapping of the spark plugs is my last resort and most likley fix. I recently bought a BT cable so i could try the below MR5's adaptation reset. It didn't work for me but it has worked for some. Probably worth ago if you have a BT cable before you try the regapping. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386376
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10-20-2011, 10:15 AM	#19
GeorgiaTech335coupe Lieutenant Colonel 81 Rep 1,883 Posts Drives: Black BMW 335i coupe Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	IMO I wouldn't regap the plugs. Think about how many people have changed their plugs out with the stock gap and their cars run fine. I'd be willing to be that it is an adaptation issue, that may work itself out over a little time. Another thing to consider - a wider gap may help give a smoother idle, but how is that going to affect combustion during WOT at 6000+ rpm? __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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10-20-2011, 10:28 AM	#21
Tzu Lieutenant Colonel 29 Rep 1,551 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto iTrader: (1)	Find Dzenno's therad about misfiring. He had a misfire in cyl 5 I beleive, which he spent many many $$$ trying to fix. The solution was to gap the plugs. Albiet, I'm sure his was exaggerated by the high power he was making.
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