[davyk31]

If you are striking, no offence, but grow up, take a sniff of reality and the current economic situations, admit its been too good for you for too long and get back to work and be glad you have a job.

Those of us in the private sector and particularly construction where I work have lived with job cuts, insecurity, massive pay decreases, no large employer contribution to pensions, much less holidays, much less sick days if any paid for etc etc. We see the times as they are and the 1950s approach of "all out" boys is so not the right approach. Accept things may not be as good as they have been for ever, negotiate and get on with it.

There ........... that's better now.

[jjbirch530d]

all i can say before the grammar patrol come here and state my post is i wish i had a pension when i hit 65, and have a steady wage every month, if nothing comes in i go out and find work,
all i say it get rid of all them spoilt brats and bring in all the students that cant get jobs

[xenon]

+1

Going on strike is really going to help (NOT). As the government says, it won't make the slightest difference. (how could it?)

As davyk31 says, those of us with proper jobs have had worse pension schemes for years that the public-sector is being offered now.

this is about right << link

[xenon]

Originally Posted by jjbirch530d

all i can say before the grammar patrol come here and state my post is i wish i had a pension when i hit 65, and have a steady wage every month, if nothing comes in i go out and find work,
all i say it get rid of all them spoilt brats and bring in all the students that cant get jobs

forget grammar police - read your post back and see if it makes any sense at all. I can't make head nor tail of any of your posts.

[MEGA]

James: Your posts never used to be as bad as this pre ban. Sort it out, before I re-introduce you to the man train.

Topic: I'm not on strike, because I'm not a homosexual, or a frenchman, or a french homosexual.
I work for a living and accept that in difficult times the government needs to take steps to avoid us going the way of Portugal, Greece or Italy. I appreciate that we should be thankful that we have a government trying to balance the books rather than just win popularity contests, and am thankful that the tories got in: Because another term of labour (funded by the unions) government would have put us in a worse state than any of the eurozone members by now.
The depressing thing, is we'll get one term of a pure conservate government after this, and then Labour will get back in and give free money to everyone. Oh, you seek assylum? Come on down! You want benefits for your 15 children who don't live in the UK? That seems fair! You want a 7% payrise even though we only have the budget for 2%? Fair enough. How will we pay for it all? Why not impose another 20p tax on fuel! No one will mind that; cars are evil!

To go on strike because your job isn't quite cushty enough, when so many companies in the private sector have folded or imposed redundancies is pathetic. These guys should be thankful for their careers. Personally I'd give written warnings on the grounds of truancy to anyone who went on strike, and then if they ever did it again they'd be out on their asses. See how fair they find the benefit system.

[xenon]

^^ +1 again.

[KadeSdad]

At least there was no school traffic this morning

[parapaul]

Flame suit on.

I'm a paramedic. Have been for 12 years, since I left university. It's not a badly paid job, but its not great either. I've worked 9 out of those 12 Christmas days, and 8 new years - either new years eve or new years day, or both. My eldest kid is 7 and I haven't spent a Christmas day with him yet because I've been at work.

There are ZERO benefits to public sector jobs. No perks, no bonuses, nothing.

One of the only benefits - that was offered, in writing, when I joined - was the NHS pension. Something guaranteed to pay out when I reached 65, after more than 40 years of picking up pissheads every weekend and carrying fat bastards down stairs every single day. The agreed contribution was a fixed % of my salary every month.

So, now they want me to pay more every month, and work until I'm 67, for NO extra in return? Thanks, Cameron.

And if you bear in mind we've had a pay freeze for the last 2 years - no cost of living pay rise - and the gubberment have just imposed a 1% cap on next year's pay increase, it all sounds a bit shit, quite honestly.

For those who are against this, just on principle - if YOUR employer suddenly said they were cutting your agreed pension benefits, and you'd be taking home less every month, how impressed would you be?

[xenon]

Originally Posted by parapaul

For those who are against this, just on principle - if YOUR employer suddenly said they were cutting your agreed pension benefits, and you'd be taking home less every month, how impressed would you be?

Not at all impressed. But it's been happening in industry for years. Everyone in our company took a 5% cut last year.

EDIT - having said that, Paul, I'm not unsympathetic to your situation. It's harsh, and you do (very much) a "proper" public-sector job. It presumably boils your piss too when half these on strike have got made-up jobs in the first place.

[mowflow]

I started quite a successful thread about this a while back (last time the moaning gits went on strike). The public sector need to get real, the old argument of private sector employees getting paid more so the cushy pension compensates just doesn't ring true anymore. Wages are comparable more or less across the board when you compare like for like roles. They generally get more holidays, guaranteed incremental rises that are not based on performance and in most cases are less likely to be held accountable since very few operate on a profit/loss basis.

I'm no particularly a fan of the current government but I do agree with the measures they are taking to reduce some elements of the public sector in an attempt to make it more efficient. The only problem is that come next election labour will get back in and will just put us back in the shit by rapidly growing the public sector again in an attempt to massage the unemployment figures.

At least the roads were nice and quite today and it was good fun sticking two fingers up at all the picket lines I passed and shouting "get back to work you ungreatful c*nts" out the car window.

[MEGA]

Originally Posted by mowflow

At least the roads were nice and quite today and it was good fun sticking two fingers up at all the picket lines I passed and shouting "get back to work you ungreatful c*nts" out the car window.

I hope you actually shouted this. Good stuff.

[creepy coupe]

I haven't had a cost of living rise for two years, my pension pot has taken a kicking to the tune of - 9% and we all know that will be extrapolated over time.

I have to work away at shows and presentations and don't get extra for it. But you know what? I see what's happening around me, the shite state of the country and Europe, and i think I'm lucky to have a job.

The problem with Public sector job, is that years ago they were "jobs for life" and today they're not, there is no such thing. It's just some of us have woken up and realised it.

[davyk31]

Paul, I do understand some of your points but claiming you haven't had a pay rise in two years is pathetic, most in industry have seen pay freezes for 4 or 5 years and VERY often pay cuts or redundancy. Also saying you need to work to 67 is not valid, we will all have to do that under new regulations.

As regards working Christmas and New Year, you would have known that was an option when you chose your career. Because you have worked so many in the past few years have you volunteered for these days, was there any extra pay for doing so?
What would the average number of sick days be for a Paramedic, I bet its much more than private sector. Also how many days holiday do you get in a year, I get a total of 28 which includes all bank holidays.

As regards your pension, we are in dramatic times that no one predicted therefore it is completely unreasonable to assume that a pension deal signed up to at the start of your career will still be fully appropriate 40 years later. And how much does your employer pay into your pension, mine pays 1% of salary per annum, there is no point in me trying to get more at the minute as i understand the times we are in and am glad to still be working in a Company where many competitors have failed a long time ago.

Its all about being real, private sector workers rarely seem to operate in that world. Let me quote you an example I still find unbelievable in the Car Registration office. My dealer put in a Cherished Transfer for me a few years back, it was returned because he omitted to put the Chassis number on the form. It was on the log book attached to the application and also on the DVLA system but the whole thing was packed up and returned to dealer to then all be re-processed when he made the correction. A simple bit of sense on the part of the clerk could have sorted it out, dealer made an issue of it and was told by the person's senior manager that it wasn't their job to fill in that box and the person was right to reject it. Jobsworth people all of them protecting their little kingdoms by having many many lines of managers all looking after their little parts. If a clerk had acted as such in a private company they would have had the sense to know they were being petty and would have been right to expect disciplinary action against them.

[davyk31]

Also remember that due to the fact most of us in small private companies have private pensions these have also taken a hammering due to recession. The value of pots has fallen so we also have to pay in a lot more to get back what we expected or what a financial advisor told us we would get when we signed up to the pension.
So we need to strike over this point, all out boys, not sure who is to blame, perhaps global economics, perhaps God, or perhaps we just yet again are realistic and accept things as they are rather than get fired up by a Union.

Also how many public sector workers on strike will have to work harder tomorrow to make up for the lost day, none I guess. If I was off today no-one would do my work and I would have to do it tomorrow. Public workers who don't cook a school dinner today will just return tomorrow as normal, or a clerk processing say registration applications will simply add a day to the timescale for processing.

Love the approach of get to back to work you lazy ba****ds.

[Kerr]

They are not getting much support are they?

Sadly I think everyone has been hit by the recession and they have to accept they too have to fall into line with the real world. None of the changes are any worse than most workers have had to suffer.

It's also very unfair to strike especially at this time of year. Again the average worker has had to take a day off work or pay extra childcare that with Christmas around the corner they can ill afford to.

[mowflow]

Originally Posted by parapaul

Flame suit on.

I'm a paramedic. Have been for 12 years, since I left university. It's not a badly paid job, but its not great either. I've worked 9 out of those 12 Christmas days, and 8 new years - either new years eve or new years day, or both. My eldest kid is 7 and I haven't spent a Christmas day with him yet because I've been at work.

There are ZERO benefits to public sector jobs. No perks, no bonuses, nothing.

One of the only benefits - that was offered, in writing, when I joined - was the NHS pension. Something guaranteed to pay out when I reached 65, after more than 40 years of picking up pissheads every weekend and carrying fat bastards down stairs every single day. The agreed contribution was a fixed % of my salary every month.

So, now they want me to pay more every month, and work until I'm 67, for NO extra in return? Thanks, Cameron.

And if you bear in mind we've had a pay freeze for the last 2 years - no cost of living pay rise - and the gubberment have just imposed a 1% cap on next year's pay increase, it all sounds a bit shit, quite honestly.

For those who are against this, just on principle - if YOUR employer suddenly said they were cutting your agreed pension benefits, and you'd be taking home less every month, how impressed would you be?

Sorry Paul but I just don't understand people who go into that kind of job and are surprised or complain about the days/hours they have to work, think the wage isn't great or the fact that they have to deal with ungreatful pissheads, fat bastards etc. It's common knowledge and information that is freely available. I'd also like to point out that I appreciate what you do but lets face it, the terms of public sector pensions just are not sustainable and they haven't been for quite some time.

The terms of nearly every contract of employment I've had have changed in some way shape depending on current situations during my career so far. The fact of the matter is that if I really didn't like what had changed I had 2 options. Put up with it or find another job.

Over the years I've had bonuses promised that never showed, profit share that never paid out, no pension contributions from any of my employers, responsibilities added to jobs without addition pay, a pay freeze (for 4 years), god knows how many hundreds of hours of unpaid overtime on weekends and evening, constant fleeting concern over not having a job...... this list could go on forever. I dare say this list could have been written or even added to by many of the private sector workers on here.

[briers]

Echo what everyone else has said, they need to live in the real world.

They want more money at a time when we don't have any to allocate. That's just stupid.

I took a voluntary pay cut a few years ago to protect the business I was in. Some of the other directors went without pay and several staff went.

People were loosing their jobs all around me or having their pay cut.

My brother is a teacher and he isn't striking because he knows it's a waste of everyone's time and money. Considering the state of the economy he knows he is lucky to be teaching and cares more about teaching than getting more in his pot.


To be honest if I had it my way I would sack the lot of them. There are thousands of people desperate to get work and these people want to take a day off to do their shopping. Costing the economy hundreds of millions perhaps, which it doesn't even have.

[davyk31]

Loose the Unions, they are only stirring all this up to keep themselves in an antiquated role. Align that with lazy public sector workers who are more than happy to take a day off with no further consequence for them and we end up with a pointless strike.

The complete lack of support from a vast majority of the population doesn't seem to mean much to them and will just mean they step up their pointless action even further.

And this does affect me too, my wife is a teacher and at work today.

[Jon D]

Accusing the strikers of being idle is a tempting and understandable sentiment for those of us in the private sector to resort to, but I'm quite sure that the vast majority are dedicated and hard working.
However, what they certainly are guilty of is that they're unrealistic and misled by a coterie of hard-line, dyed in the wool, blinkered union leaders, who are taking us in the same direction as Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain, and Ireland.
We're in a world recession and everyone, including public sector workers, has to accept that change is inevitable. They have to wake up to the fact that there simply isn't enough money.
The effect of schools being closed for a day probably won't have any great effect and, as it happens, there are no delays at the airports, but it won't have done our country's reputation any good.

[RCUK]

I dont get the strike at all - is it simply a chance to have a day off to do some xmas shopping before all going back to work tomorrow?

Do people really think its going to make any difference at all - or just make those who arent in the public services think 'there we go.. more proof its a gravy train'?

The publie sector often go on about unfair conditions poor pay etc ... I didnt realise they were being forced to work there.

Couldnt they just look for a job elsewhere if they dont like it ... though that would of course mean they dont get the insane flexiblity that they are used to and more holidays time then MP's and yep ... i can comment first hand as my dad has worked for the public sector for decades, and my wife does now - but they both know the benefitrs far outweight getting a job in the private sector - and neither are on strike today.

[davyk31]

As regards lazy public sector workers, I went to a meeting recently in our local council offices. Arrived at about 9.15am, literaly hardly a car in the carpark, so where are all the workers. Go past the same office at 5.00pm anyday and its empty again so it isn't that they are working late, go past 4.00pm on a Friday and its also empty, completely closed at weekends. Of course I forget, they all work flexi time but how many hours do they actually work. We all know honest people who work in public sector who admit it is an easy life and thats why they stay, yes some do work hard and are effective but it seems they are in the minority. You probably find its most of the under performers who are on strike because they couldn't care less. No grasp of how the real world works.

[M3-FAST]

Will be very interesting to hear the news tonight. I wonder if the story of the strikes will be counteracted by a story of record sales in the shops

I also want a day off to go shopping, but have had to book a day's holiday next week - I run my own business and have to worry about staffing levels etc in order to provide a service to my customers. Maybe some of her majestys 'servants' should concentrate on providing their service to the country instead of banging on about how tough their conditions are.

I have also had to keep our directors pay frozen in order to give mt staff a cost of living rise. My pension is also taking a cut, and will require more contributions if I want it to remain on track. I only have 20 days holiday a year + bank holidays - I can't work flexitime - I can't job share - I don't get free car parking (our local council are up in arms because they are now being expected to pay to park their cars....it used to be free until they built the plush new council offices on the car park ha ha)

Let's all see the real big picture - we have neighbouring countries who are going bankrupt! Cuts HAVE to be made in order to help the country long term. Everyone is living longer and the money simply is not there to fund that.