[jap01]

Hello all, I am still very new to the forums.

Ideally I would love to purchase a 330d Auto (245bhp) but current prices are still around the 19k mark. I can get a 320d for around 12k/13k for the facelift which is within my Budget.

I understand the 320d Auto kicks out 177bhp which I have driven, Its a great car and goes well. But I know i would like a little more ....

I understand that a remap on the 177bhp can yeild around 215bhp? Which seems like a great solution to the above issue.

The question I have relates to the Auto gearbox and the remap on the 2.0d, I have read that some people have had issues with the torque on the gearbox?

Has this been resolved, was this a mapping issue or a gearbox issue?

Does the 330d Auto and the 320d Auto share the same Auto box?

Thanks all !

[SO8]

My understanding is the box is different and far stronger in the 330d.

I had a 320d 177 and remapped it via Superchips to 215bhp. The box, however, didn't like it ... so I put it back to standard.

I am a bit biased now having a 330d (LCI - 245) but it is a whole lot nicer than my remapped 320d was ... far smoother ... and quicker.

[hollpe]

I had issues with rumbling & vibration through the drive train when I tried both a re-map & tuning box. As S08 says its basically because the auto box on the 320D isn't as strong as that in the 6 cyl diesels & gets near to its max torque output even as standard.

In the end I opted for the BMW performance kit, which came with an uprated torque convertor. I've done about 50k with the kit on now & haven't had any of the issues I had with the remaps & tuning box previously.

[jap01]

Hi guys thanks for the information, i have the following questions:

Whats LCI?

How much is the bmw performance kit?

[Ermos]

Hello Jap01,

To begin with LCI means "Life Cycle Impulse" a model update or refresh.

320d (assuming you are talking about E90LCI or E92/3) has the GA6HP19Z auto gear box by ZF, "a six speed low torque version".
330d has the GA6HP26Z auto gear box also by ZF, the "high torque version".

The GA6HP19Z as manufacturer claims has an input torque range of 258-298 lbs/ft (350-403 Nm) [safety limits??]. The same 6 speed gearbox of 320d and 335i! The difference is their torque converter.

The problem with remapping the auto 320d is the higher than 400 Nm torque figures usually quoted by tuners.
BMW Performance takes the N47 engine from 177 to 197bhp and torque from 350 to 390 Nm BUT they have to change the torque converter model Q126 with S126 (the one that is used by E92/3 LCIs with 184bhp and 380 Nm), which is taking the cost to 00s more. I think I was quoted 2500 Euros in Cyprus.

[jap01]

Thanks for the information

Sounds like I need to look at a manual then If i want a remap.

There isnt any point in spending thousands, I would save up for a 330d!

[chrisbmwcy]

Originally Posted by Ermos

Hello Jap01,

To begin with LCI means "Life Cycle Impulse" a model update or refresh.

320d (assuming you are talking about E90LCI or E92/3) has the GA6HP19Z auto gear box by ZF, "a six speed low torque version".
330d has the GA6HP26Z auto gear box also by ZF, the "high torque version".

The GA6HP19Z as manufacturer claims has an input torque range of 258-298 lbs/ft (350-403 Nm) [safety limits??]. The same 6 speed gearbox of 320d and 335i! The difference is their torque converter.

The problem with remapping the auto 320d is the higher than 400 Nm torque figures usually quoted by tuners.
BMW Performance takes the N47 engine from 177 to 197bhp and torque from 350 to 390 Nm BUT they have to change the torque converter model Q126 with S126 (the one that is used by E92/3 LCIs with 184bhp and 380 Nm), which is taking the cost to 00s more. I think I was quoted 2500 Euros in Cyprus.

Ermo,

While i was browsing the forums I came accross your post.

You seem you have studied a lot this issue

I was worried about the torque converter as well on mine.

I went for a remap on mine and the ECU was locked for reading and writting.
They wanted to remove the ECU, send it to Germany, send it back and install it back to ther car. So I chose a tuning box from DTUK which gave impressive results.

I had no issues with my Auto Gearbox and the Tuner of the Box claims up to 220 bhp. I saw a dyno from another member with the same tuning box on his 120d (177bhp) that run 217 bhp.

At the end what did you do with yours? Did you go for the BMW Performance Kit?

[scotty02uk]

im in the same boat, and have recently got a 320d. BMW performance tune - they change the torque converter in the auto box, and install a 600w fan. Is it worth getting a tune from an external company and taking the risk?, also most of them tune to 440nm of tq and the 320d gearbox is rated to 400nm. I have sent an email to superchips asking if they can do a custom tune that does not exceed the gearbox limits, hope to get a reply soon. have tried finding an uprated gearbox torque converter with no luck

[blackrabbit]

I have just had my 320d remapped by emaps. and WOW, I am on a manual box but the power is amazing. No issues at all to report......Other than a big grin!

[EQUANT]

Originally Posted by Ermos

they have to change the torque converter model Q126 with S126 (the one that is used by E92/3 LCIs with 184bhp and 380 Nm)

I'm in the same boat - BMW power kit. I was just wondering, any idea what is the max torque for the newer torque converter? couldn't find this information anywhere. The same TC is on the newer, 184HP, which are taken to 420Nm via the BMW PPK, so i guess this TC should hold more torque than the original but ... how much?

I think i'd like a little more torque and i was thinking of a remap of the PPK ECU. Could that be done?

[QLD]

Originally Posted by Ermos

The same 6 speed gearbox of 320d and 335i!
The difference is their torque converter.

The problem with remapping the auto 320d is the higher than 400 Nm torque figures usually quoted by tuners.

BMW Performance takes the N47 engine from 177 to 197bhp and torque from 350 to 390 Nm BUT they have to change the torque converter model Q126 with S126, the one that is used by E92/3 LCIs with 184bhp and 380 Nm.

That is some excellent info... stuff I know is much sought after by people researching this issue.. cheers!

[Ermos]

Originally Posted by EQUANT

I'm in the same boat - BMW power kit. I was just wondering, any idea what is the max torque for the newer torque converter? couldn't find this information anywhere. The same TC is on the newer, 184HP, which are taken to 420Nm via the BMW PPK, so i guess this TC should hold more torque than the original but ... how much?

I think i'd like a little more torque and i was thinking of a remap of the PPK ECU. Could that be done?

We can safely assume that the S126 can cope with the added torque of 420Nm plus a safety margin (narrower than the original) but I'm not aware of the exact figure. Also note that the kit is not for the 520d Auto, don't know why.

The interesting thing is that it is used on the old GA6HP19Z (torque input quoted as 403Nm max) , which was also used in the 325d with a torque output 400Nm along with TC model T126, also assuming that the T model is more potent than S.

Now after 7/2011 (correct me if I'm wrong) they started using an upgraded N57 motor (325d) with an output of almost 430Nm, but they are now using the GA6HP26Z gearbox and the P121 TC.

Another fact is that for almost every motor there is a different TC but my knowledge can't justify why. It would be better if our cars could handle more torque at minimal cost - needless to change the TC. Maybe there are problems with the delivery pattern of torque produced from each engine. On the other hand it is just their way of keeping most of us away of tuning the engines.

I tend to believe that there are safety margins for higher torque figures from each of TCs but at the cost of a maybe higher probability for visits to the mechanic.

[QLD]

My only comment is that the ZF boxes changed in 2006/7 with uprated boxes and faster shift changes.

GA6HP19Z actually became the GA6HP21Z... with a 450nm rating.

BMW choose not to use this ZF badge, and instead call the uprated boxes from 2006/7 with their internal BMW coding of: GA6HP19ZTU


http://apps01.zf.com/zf.productDataB...n_EN_2006s.pdf


.

[Igotwood]

@scotty02uk.

Did you hear back from superchips? Interested in what they had to say!

[scotty02uk]

Yes, here is there response:

We have hundreds of mapped BMW’s using our software including one of our own company fleet and we haven’t had a single gearbox failure or breakdown in the 4 years we have been offering a modification for this engine.
We can provide you with a reduced output map if needed but that will generally compromise the low rpm performance improvements.
Kind Regards,

Michael Howard.

I have asked if they can do a 390nm tune on the bluefin units - awaiting reply

Also enquired about the BMW performance tuning kit , costs:

The tuning kit would cost £2075.00 to fit (£1215.00 parts and £860.00 labour - both inclusive of VAT).

[scotty02uk]

realoem has 2009 e90 320d lci gearbox =

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...93&hg=24&fg=05

But ZF shows this:

http://webcat-services.zf.com/index....2,14,1632,1614

http://www.apra-europe.org/dateien/d...chatronics.pdf

For UK cars - anyone else confused

[QLD]

Originally Posted by scotty02uk

But ZF shows this:

http://webcat-services.zf.com/index....2,14,1632,1614

That link is pure GOLD!!

Finally conclusive proof that the BMW 19Z boxes from 2006 onwards are actually 21Z's which are rated at 450nm.

s-w-e-e-t

[scotty02uk]

im still not convinced, on here it shows uk cars to have 400nm boxes for uk cars

https://www.parts.bmwgroup.com/index.htm

prob best to gtet under the car and check the actual transmission

[QLD]

Shows quite clearly on the ZF website (and they make the boxes) that you have the 21Z box.


.

[QLD]

If there was to be an issue with the older 2009 cars I'd say it is not in the tranny itself.. it is in the TC they use.

As posted above "torque converter model Q126 (400nm) is upgraded with the S126 (450nm), the one that is used by E92/3 LCIs with 184bhp and 380 Nm".

So whilst the 2006+ cars had the good 21z box... it seems they had a shitty TC - in the lci 2010 e92's they went with the uprated TCs (450nm) - the same ones they use as an upgrade for in the BMW PowerKits for the older cars...

[scotty02uk]

I emailed ZF and they came back with:

Good morning Richard,

It will either be a 6HP-19 or 6HP-26 transmission it will tell you on side of transmission.
Thanks
Simon

No mention of 6HP-21

[QLD]

Write back then and let him know what an idiot he is.

His own official website (technical database) which you provided a link to clearly shows they have the HP-21 box.

There is no doubt, there is no discussion - its a fact.