[Armen52]

I have an early 330i, delivered in June of 2005. I had only one software update sometime in late 2005. I should probably figure out how to check the version of the software in the car and add that here. I will do that later today.

I just got an AT&T-branded (Cingular) Motorola RAZR V3xx when my V3 bit the dust and it does not work properly with my car. The phone will connect to the car when I pair them but after that they don't connect again. If I go through the pairing process again, then they're talking again. If I watch the name of the phone in the BT screen in the car, I see a checkmark appear just for a split second next to the phone's name, then it goes away again; that indicates to me that they are trying to connect but failing.

Also, I do not have iDrive in the car.

This is incredibly annoying. Does anyone know if a software update will cure this problem? It sounds like the latest 335's are working just fine with this phone.

On a side note, I cannot believe how incredibly annoying and disappointing it is that a $40K+ car cannot connect to most phones when a $40 Bluetooth headset can. Seriously disappointing.

[Armen52]

I looked through the forums and I have not yet been able to find a way to determine what version of the software (is it called Progman on non-I-Drive cars?) is installed on my car. Not to mention which, I cannot tell if a newer version would fix the issue or not. Seems like it should given the apparent compatibility with the newer 335's but who's to say for sure.

Also, does anyone know how I can get access to the following technical service bulletins (TSB)? They seem like they might be related and I really would like to know what I am talking about if/when I ask the dealer to help me out with this thing.

852505 Unable to pair or reconnect Bluetooth
840506 Diagnosis of Bluetooth handset complaints
610305 Software errors corrected with progman
090906 Progman 21.0 software errors
840906 Bluetooth inoperative, TCU FC# A379 or 79
841006 BMW Assist or Bluetooth inoperative, TCU FC# A373

On the TSB thread it seems like the earlier TSB's are available as links but why not the latest ones?

Lastly, a lot of the talk about updated software revisions is about fixes for the I-Drive / sat-nav. What if anything has been updated for cars without the nav since the emissions update in late 2005?

JSpira? A lil help here?

[firstkill]

have you done the tcu update yet?

the next time you take ur car into service they will probably do it and reload the most current progman so that may take care of your bluetooth problem.


fk

[Armen52]

My car was just in for service a couple of weeks ago and they did not offer to do any software updates. I am afraid I am going to have to ask for it so I am trying to go in there with a specific complaint or TSB to point them to so that they will do it for me under warranty.

[Roowah]

Originally Posted by Armen52

I have an early 330i, delivered in June of 2005. I had only one software update sometime in late 2005. I should probably figure out how to check the version of the software in the car and add that here. I will do that later today.

I just got an AT&T-branded (Cingular) Motorola RAZR V3xx when my V3 bit the dust and it does not work properly with my car. The phone will connect to the car when I pair them but after that they don't connect again. If I go through the pairing process again, then they're talking again. If I watch the name of the phone in the BT screen in the car, I see a checkmark appear just for a split second next to the phone's name, then it goes away again; that indicates to me that they are trying to connect but failing.

Also, I do not have iDrive in the car.

This is incredibly annoying. Does anyone know if a software update will cure this problem? It sounds like the latest 335's are working just fine with this phone.

On a side note, I cannot believe how incredibly annoying and disappointing it is that a $40K+ car cannot connect to most phones when a $40 Bluetooth headset can. Seriously disappointing.

I believe that this may possibly be a problem with not only the car, but the phone. I have a V3xx as well, but have found that it is not as completely compatible with the BMW system as was my old v557 or older V3. The V3xx has the next generation software in it, so that may be part of the problem. It's a different operating system. I've occasionally experienced a problem with it pairing to the car and then disconnecting, and what I've had to do was shut down the phone and restart it, which seems to work. Other differences in functionality between the V3xx and my v557 (the software is the same as the old V3), was that it would beep through the speakers to notify me if I had a voicemail message. Also it would ring for an incoming call while paired, which was helpful if I was outside my car but still connected to it. I could know if someone is trying to reach me.

I wish I had a better answer for you.

[Armen52]

Yeah I realize they are not exactly the same phone but I was holding out hope that since it is Motorola that things would work.

I work in software development so I feel like I can say this with a modicum of authority on the topic: I think it is flat out ridiculous that you would end up in a situation where a phone will pair with the car on intial paring but follow-up connections cannot be established. That is simply a result of shoddy software on either or both sides.

At this point I am just holding out hope that someone with experience with either the service bulletins for the car, the electronics/software itself, or with dealer/factory connections in general can help me find a way to get the latest software on my car under warranty which will hopefully resolve things.

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by Roowah

The V3xx has the next generation software in it, so that may be part of the problem. It's a different operating system.

That's incorrect. All the P2K (ie motorola native) phones have the same "operating system". The applications and modem vary between phones.

Originally Posted by Roowah

I've occasionally experienced a problem with it pairing to the car and then disconnecting, and what I've had to do was shut down the phone and restart it, which seems to work.

The big interoperability issue with the V3xx bluetooth is that it's the first Mot phone (in the US, anyway) to support eSCO audio mode; this has been known to cause issues with some devices which don't support eSCO, especially when connecting or disconnecting. These issues are mostly shaken out, and there have been a few releases of the V3xx software shipped. If both your phone and your headset/carkit support eSCO it substantially reduces the crackliness of the audio. FWIW, I've never had any issues with my v3xx and my e92, but I have the most recent SW version on my v3xx.

Originally Posted by Roowah

Other differences in functionality between the V3xx and my v557 (the software is the same as the old V3), was that it would beep through the speakers to notify me if I had a voicemail message.

This should still be the case on the v3xx. Do you have a non-Silent alert set for voicemail? Any alert that you set will get replace by a "beep" if it happens during a call.

Originally Posted by Roowah

Also it would ring for an incoming call while paired, which was helpful if I was outside my car but still connected to it. I could know if someone is trying to reach me.

This is actually a bug that was fixed; the older phones could not discriminate between a bluetooth headset and a bluetooth carkit, so it treated all bluetooth devices as headsets and alerted through the bluetooth device and the loudspeaker. The V3xx does not do this for carkits, only headsets (as intended)... sorry

[Armen52]

I think I may be having the eSCO problem as you've described since I can see the car and phone trying to connect to one another automatically (bluetooth light flashing on the phone and check mark appearing next to phone name for a split second on the car), but they fail every time.

Could you tell me what version of flash/flex your V3xx is running? Is it an AT&T branded phone or an unlocked phone you bought from a non-carrier. Also if you know what version of Progman your car is running that would also be very helpful.

[Roowah]

Sorry it took so long to get back to the discussion and awakening an old thread...I was out of town for a number of days and away from any online access.

tintivilus - Thank you for your suggestions. I've responded below:

Originally Posted by Roowah
Other differences in functionality between the V3xx and my v557 (the software is the same as the old V3), was that it would beep through the speakers to notify me if I had a voicemail message.

This should still be the case on the v3xx. Do you have a non-Silent alert set for voicemail? Any alert that you set will get replace by a "beep" if it happens during a call.

I do have a non-silent alert set for voicemail, but I still don't get a "beep" through the car's speakers when one comes in. Any other suggestions?

Originally Posted by Roowah
Also it would ring for an incoming call while paired, which was helpful if I was outside my car but still connected to it. I could know if someone is trying to reach me.

This is actually a bug that was fixed; the older phones could not discriminate between a bluetooth headset and a bluetooth carkit, so it treated all bluetooth devices as headsets and alerted through the bluetooth device and the loudspeaker. The V3xx does not do this for carkits, only headsets (as intended)... sorry

Too bad about this....this is one bug that I found very useful. Is there a way to "trick" the phone into thinking it's connected to a headset, not a carkit? Is there a big difference between the two?

The big interoperability issue with the V3xx bluetooth is that it's the first Mot phone (in the US, anyway) to support eSCO audio mode; this has been known to cause issues with some devices which don't support eSCO, especially when connecting or disconnecting. These issues are mostly shaken out, and there have been a few releases of the V3xx software shipped. If both your phone and your headset/carkit support eSCO it substantially reduces the crackliness of the audio. FWIW, I've never had any issues with my v3xx and my e92, but I have the most recent SW version on my v3xx.

I believe you just exceeded my technical knowledge. I'm not sure what eSCO is.

Although I don't claim to be a specialist in the inner workings of my phone (see above's comment) I do remember reading the information I mentioned regarding the new software and operating system on howardforums. Also, PC Magazine (and I'm definitely not saying they are the gospel) had this to say about the V3xx: Review date 3-12-07.

"Every bit of the V3xx's software has been rewritten, too. It's a much faster phone than the RAZR, in part thanks to its zippy 314-MHz ARM9 processor, a big jump from the 40-MHz ARM7 CPU in most RAZRs."

Basically, it is more than a change with the applications between the V3, v557, and V3xx.

In any case, thanks again for your help!

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by Armen52

I think I may be having the eSCO problem as you've described since I can see the car and phone trying to connect to one another automatically (bluetooth light flashing on the phone and check mark appearing next to phone name for a split second on the car), but they fail every time.

Could you tell me what version of flash/flex your V3xx is running? Is it an AT&T branded phone or an unlocked phone you bought from a non-carrier. Also if you know what version of Progman your car is running that would also be very helpful.

That doesn't sound like a SCO-related symptom, unless there's some kind of weird emergent behavior regarding the BMW bluetooth kits specifically. A Bluetooth Handsfree Profile actually has several different connections; the (e)SCO audio connection is only open when there's actually audio, and it times out and gets torn down after a period of inactivity. If you're having trouble with SCO link negotiation, the symptom is usually that it takes a long time to start hearing audio after (for example) answering a call. SCO negotiation happens after the initial connection is made, and its failure shouldn't cause the phone to drop entirely.

It sounds like you might have some other lower-level connection issue; the first suggestion I have would be to delete the connection from both the phone and the car and try re-pairing from scratch.

FWIW, the eSCO issues are generally with older kit. I'm not 100% clear about the gorey details, but the executive summary is that some kits marked future-use "reserved" capabilities as "supported" for reasons I can't begin to understand, and this can cause weird things to happen when a newer device tries to use one of those capabilties. I'd be *really* surprised if BMW equipment included such a blatant trigger for misbehavior.

Most Motorola phones are tested with BMW bluetooth by both Motorola/Continental and BMW itself. If there were any SCO or audio issues between the v3xx and the BMW kit I'm sure I would have heard about them if not experienced them firsthand.

since you asked: I don't know my progman version offhand (it should be the factory build from 10/2006 e92 production) but my phone s/w is R26111 96.B0.0B with minor modifications. It's probably later than what AT&T is shipping, but i doubt it'd be wildly different. I have an AT&T branded flex (again with minor modifications) but I haven't seen any issues with bluetooth on the baseline releases.

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by Roowah

I do have a non-silent alert set for voicemail, but I still don't get a "beep" through the car's speakers when one comes in. Any other suggestions?

That's weird. I'll experiment and see if I can reproduce the issue. Do you get a "beep" when you're using the phone away from the car (not with bluetooth)?

Originally Posted by Roowah

Too bad about this....this is one bug that I found very useful. Is there a way to "trick" the phone into thinking it's connected to a headset, not a carkit? Is there a big difference between the two?

No, there's really not. You could change this behavior by altering the car's response, but I imagine that's outside of your control

You could also set the phone to a vibrating profile (like vibe-and-ring or vibe-then-ring) and you'll still get the vibration on the phone even if the ringer's going to the car.

Originally Posted by Roowah

I believe you just exceeded my technical knowledge. I'm not sure what eSCO is.

Although I don't claim to be a specialist in the inner workings of my phone (see above's comment) I do remember reading the information I mentioned regarding the new software and operating system on howardforums. Also, PC Magazine (and I'm definitely not saying they are the gospel) had this to say about the V3xx: Review date 3-12-07.

"Every bit of the V3xx's software has been rewritten, too. It's a much faster phone than the RAZR, in part thanks to its zippy 314-MHz ARM9 processor, a big jump from the 40-MHz ARM7 CPU in most RAZRs."

Basically, it is more than a change with the applications between the V3, v557, and V3xx.

yeah, that's an... interesting spin on things. It sounds like they might have cross-wired the v3m and the v3xx. For starters, if you google around you'll find plenty of sources for the v3xx using an ARM11, not an ARM9, and "314" is an oddly precise number for being totally wrong . As a UMTS phone, you'll see much more family resemblance between the v3xx and the E1000/E1070/v3x line of UMTS phones than with the straight GSM phones like the v3 or the 55x. There's surely some understandable fuzziness about what exactly comprises the "operating system" versus "applications" but saying "every bit" is new is quite an exaggeration. Lots has changed below the apps as well, but it's still a P2K (Motorola native OS/UI) phone with all the love/hate that inspires in users

[Armen52]

Okay so I thought I would update the thread with what seems to be a workaround I have found to get the phone working with my car.

I have consistently been able to get a good working connection (reproduced about ten times in a row now) between my E90 and the V3xx by following these steps:

1) Turn BT off before turning the car off and leaving
2) When returning to car, have phone's Bluetooth on and running, go to audio devices menu under Use Bluetooth.
3) Turn the BT on in the car
4) Immediately thereafter, choose the BMW device in the phone's menu, asking the phone to connect to the car

This seems to work without fail for me. I have not yet tried variations on these steps such as, what if I forget to turn the BT off before turning the car off, can I just turn it off and on and try to manually connect?

Once again this is between an AT&T-branded V3xx purchased at the end of May and my E90 *without* Nav running software most likely from late 2005 (CIP 19 or thereabouts I think).

[tlester]

Has anyone figured out anything more with this? Is a Progman upgrade the fix?

Is there any way to figure out which version of the Progman software I have in my E90?

Also... is there anywhere on the site to see what the most current version of the software is?

=Tom

[Armen52]

Well I followed the steps I posted in my last post and after approximately 5-10 times of connecting in this way, the phone finally started pairing itself automatically with my car without any problems.

Then I used iSync to synchronize my contacts as I usually do with my Mac. After I did this I again had to resort to the most complicated process from my last post. Its almost like they need to get re-acquainted after every time the phone is paired with anyone but the car.

This is pretty lame but I have learned to deal with it and I just don't synchronize the phone as often as I used to.

[tlester]

I wonder if it's because I have both my Mac and my BMW paired.....

I'll try un-pairing my mac and see what happens.

-Tom

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by tlester

I wonder if it's because I have both my Mac and my BMW paired.....

I'll try un-pairing my mac and see what happens.

-Tom

Not likely. I have my v3xx paired with my mac mini, ibook, Nokia 770 (web tablet), my e92, and any number of headsets and I've never had trouble connecting to the car. Even when I have multiple phones in and paired with the car (eg v3xx and Q9h) they play nice based on the priority list in the TCU.

(I like bluetooth )

[richlux]

Originally Posted by tlester

Has anyone figured out anything more with this? Is a Progman upgrade the fix?

Is there any way to figure out which version of the Progman software I have in my E90?

Also... is there anywhere on the site to see what the most current version of the software is?

=Tom

This is definitely a software issue. BMW has updated their software (progman) mid 2006 to fix lots of bluetooth issues. If you search, you will find lots of threads about people having bluetooth problems with older versions of Progman. I have a V3x and it works absolutely flawlessly with my July 2006 E90. I believe the biggest progman update for bluetooth came out around March 2006, but there have been lots of updates since. If you search the board, you can find talk about the latest version. I believe it's 26.02 or something like that.

Unfortunately, there is no way to tell what version you currently have, but if you have not had an update within the last year, you most likely have the buggy bluetooth version and most certainly have an old version. Call you're dealer now and get an update. Not only will this fix your bluetooth issues, but, if you have iDrive, you'll get cool new features such as new graphics and being able to search for places by name :-)

Rich

[tlester]

I have a 2007 328i that I purchased on June 31st 2007. I'd assume that I have a newer that 2006 Progman patch.

[richlux]

Originally Posted by tlester

I have a 2007 328i that I purchased on June 31st 2007. I'd assume that I have a newer that 2006 Progman patch.

You always get the latest version at the time your car is manufactured, so, assuming your car was built in June 2007, you would have whatever version was current in June 2007. From what I can tell, BMW updates the software every month or two, so you probably have close to the latest available.

Rich