[gdawg20001]

I recently called a local dealership in NJ to check prices on the intake cleaning and walnut shell blasting and was informed that the service is no longer offered.

They stated that BMW had came out with a new way of cleaning the valves through a chemical process that the car burned off. They said this service was $150 and may need to be repeated multiple times depending on the buildup.

I asked the rep which service he preferred or thought did the best job and he said he hasn't actually been able to visually inspect any cars after the chemical process so he couldn't comment either way.

What do you guys think about this?
Should I give it a try or look for a dealership who still performs the walnut shell blasting?

I'm not convinced this chemical service would be as effective and with no visual inspection to confirm we are basically left with how the car "feels" for results...

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by gdawg20001

I recently called a local dealership in NJ to check prices on the intake cleaning and walnut shell blasting and was informed that the service is no longer offered.

They stated that BMW had came out with a new way of cleaning the valves through a chemical process that the car burned off. They said this service was $150 and may need to be repeated multiple times depending on the buildup.

I asked the rep which service he preferred or thought did the best job and he said he hasn't actually been able to visually inspect any cars after the chemical process so he couldn't comment either way.

What do you guys think about this?
Should I give it a try or look for a dealership who still performs the walnut shell blasting?

I'm not convinced this chemical service would be as effective and with no visual inspection to confirm we are basically left with how the car "feels" for results...

If you have significant build-up, chemical cleaning will not work.

Neil

[MilehighM3]

It's a simple fogging service. Induce a fog of an induction system agent into the intercooler pipe and run the car around 3k rpms to draw the chemicals in as well as possible. It's more effective at lower mileage, if its done about every 20k it does quite well. If you already have build up, it will improve the drivability but only slightly compared to the walnut shells. It's not as effective as walnut shell blasting. Your advisor is probably trying to save you out of pocket expense. The truth of the matter is maybe they don't offer it, but walnut shell blasting is BMW's required method of cleaning when there are symptoms relating to carbon build up. That being said, it sounds like you're after a better solution, not a quick or partial fix. I've done both services on the same car and the results are quite different. I'll see if I can dig up some pics, but the fogging service is best done at lower mileage. I'm just assuming you're getting up there in miles, so forgive me if I took your post out of context.

[gdawg20001]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

It's a simple fogging service. Induce a fog of an induction system agent into the intercooler pipe and run the car around 3k rpms to draw the chemicals in as well as possible. It's more effective at lower mileage, if its done about every 20k it does quite well. If you already have build up, it will improve the drivability but only slightly compared to the walnut shells. It's not as effective as walnut shell blasting. Your advisor is probably trying to save you out of pocket expense. The truth of the matter is maybe they don't offer it, but walnut shell blasting is BMW's required method of cleaning when there are symptoms relating to carbon build up. That being said, it sounds like you're after a better solution, not a quick or partial fix. I've done both services on the same car and the results are quite different. I'll see if I can dig up some pics, but the fogging service is best done at lower mileage. I'm just assuming you're getting up there in miles, so forgive me if I took your post out of context.

Exactly! Although I'm open to saving money whenever possible, I'm also looking for the best solution.

And yes I'm getting up there in miles... 2007 @ 74k

[marv85]

Originally Posted by gdawg20001

Exactly! Although I'm open to saving money whenever possible, I'm also looking for the best solution.

And yes I'm getting up there in miles... 2007 @ 74k

That's exactly where I'm at! Taking my car to the dealer for valve cleaning this Saturday (if I find an appointment)...

[vasillalov]

I've opted for doing it myself some time soon. I am planning on doing a chemical treatment combined with some good manual labor scrubbing. I am also going to try a steam pressure cleaner for softening any caked up stuff I see.

[secretsquirrel]

Chemicals without elbow grease won't do much.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I've opted for doing it myself some time soon. I am planning on doing a chemical treatment combined with some good manual labor scrubbing. I am also going to try a steam pressure cleaner for softening any caked up stuff I see.

Steam won't do it. You need something with pea (polyetheramine).

Neil

[rader1]

I do intake port cleaning on large bore diesels at work almost every week and I can honestly say that diesel fuel and a pressure washer works GREAT. I don't think it's a viable option on the N54 due to not being able to close the valves on all the cylinders at the same time but it does work.

[e92ben]

So it's $150 bucks for a BMW labeled chevron with techron hahaha

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Steam won't do it. You need something with pea (polyetheramine).

Neil

Thanks. I'll give it a try and see anyway. If it does not work as planned, I'll just double my scrubbing efforts. I'll probably end up using a gun brush attached to a power drill on a low-rpm high-torque setting.

[E90SoFlo]

I did the "chemical" method a week ago, and it DID not do anything near the same job that the "walnut" blasting does, OFC, BMW charges $500+ for it, I paid $150 for the "chemical" cleaning.

We then used pipe cleaning brushes and scrubbed for a few hours and it cleaned them up.

If you have the availability to do the walnut cleaning for a reasonable price, DOIT!

If not, the other method can work, but you need to manually scrub with a brush of some kind.

BTW. 07' E90 - 90k Miles.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Thanks. I'll give it a try and see anyway. If it does not work as planned, I'll just double my scrubbing efforts. I'll probably end up using a gun brush attached to a power drill on a low-rpm high-torque setting.

Exactly. BG products have the best PEA content. They have a nice 2 stage chemical process, or you can also buy the BMW injector and induction system concentrate at your local dealer which works fairly well also. they chemical method works best with the valves hot. Hotter the better but the smell isn't the greatest or probably the best thing to be breathing in. Walnut shells are the best by far.

[Tzu]

Steam WILL loosen the gunk layer, not the carbon deposits underneath.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

Exactly. BG products have the best PEA content.

Link please?

[Fundahl]

We use BG products on our HVAC fleet vehicles and they are the Real Deal!

[MDORPHN]

FWIW, found this elsewhere. FWIW, most manufacturers (with exceptions such as Redline) no longer list PEA on their MSDS.
______________

Until recently BG 44K, Chevron Techron Concentrate, Gumout Regane Fuel System Cleaner, Amsoil P.I. Performance Improver Concentrate, and Redline SI-1 (among others) listed polyether amines on their Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) in proportions varying from approximately 25% to 50%. Most of these products no longer list PEA on their MSDS, having changed their terminology to disguise the precise nature of their products' constituent components. Whether PEA is still contained in those products is a matter of uncertainty. As of this writing Redline's SI-1 MSDS still specifies that the product contains 30-50% PEA. Consequently it is one of the few remaining fuel system cleaner products that undoubtedly does contain PEA in significant quantity.

________________

Neil

[ar design]

Originally Posted by e92ben

So it's $150 bucks for a BMW labeled chevron with techron hahaha

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Link please?

Here's a link to BG's page on fuel system cleaning. There is a 2 part kit PN 271 & 272 that is used for best chemical manual cleaning. I've found that a bunch of zip ties work the best for this, just working them around while the cleaning agent is working.

http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair2.html

As for the PEA content, I have gained a decent amount of basic knowledge from various vendors trying to sell me on their products. Including some hands on demos of various companies including Redline, BG, MOC, and Valvoline. We found that the Redline and BG products cleaned the best, but Redline doesn't offer the extensive product line that BG does. Apparently the company making the polyether amine for BG is the highest quality, and can only manufacture enough for BG and BG alone. That, I can find no evidence to support, other than my BG rep with whom I have a 12 year business relationship with. So I appologize for that in advance. The Redline products offer great cleaning power as well when added to the tank like a BG 44K, but they are not always easily found at retailers. Below is a link to the 44k information and it's basic properties/benifits. I found a link to a white paper on Redline's website about their SI-1 fuel system cleaner, but it's no longer funcitonal and I couldn't find much more data on a brief 15 minute google hunt. Hope this helps some though!

http://www.bgprod.co.uk/AutoProducts/Fuel&Air/BG44K.htm

[vasillalov]

RedLine states 30-50% PEA content:

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi... SI-1 6-11.PDF

[surrey 335i]

I am new here and have heard of walnut cleaning method on these cars but have never heard of this before.

could someone expain in simple terms what you are referring to?

presume its not taking cylinder head off and cleaning valves/ valve seat surface?

so what bits on the engine are we talking about cleaning?

[Spoolin335]

Actually steam does work, but it has to be superheated above saturation temperature. This is probably why it is not working. Most of the time you guys are using steam at saturation temperature, meaning its 100C. If the steam is superheated above 100C it is much hotter and considered superheated.

Superheated steam is used to remove carbon deposits in Primary Reformers in a cracking process.

Steam will defiantly work, if you can get it hot enough.