[sg335]

Has anyone with any of the software companies had any shut down/limp home mode experiences with this type of upgrade to the ECU at a road course? It is logical that with the extra boost, the car will run hotter and therefore reach critical temps sooner than stock? These symptoms may not happen on the street or the drag strip, but could appear with 30 minutes high rpm runs with a total of 2-4 hours of running in an 8 hour day.

The oil will run hotter so the oil cooler will have to work harder. So will the coolant which may not keep up with the radiator. And the IC will work harder. So far there is a solution to the IC by Spearco. But not the oil cooler and the radiator. My original idea was to run the car stock first to see how temps are, but I can't wait to order the ECU!

[edgarj]

This issue is one of the key features of PROcede V.2. He's (Shiv) adding an adaptation feature that attenuates the additional performance of PROcede when conditions approach the built-in failsafe limits so that "limp mode" opperation won't occur in track-level operation...... it will just scale back, in a transparent fashion, the augmentation somewhere between stock and full PROcede levels without triggering "limp mode". As the operating paramaters normalize, it scales back up to full performance with the same linear effect, so you dont encounter "steps" as it does it's job. Sounds awesome, so lets hope that beta testing is going as well as indicated and this adapation feature materializes along with the extra performance entailed in V.2.

[jon@themshop]

Originally Posted by edgarj

This issue is one of the key features of PROcede V.2. He's (Shiv) adding an adaptation feature that attenuates the additional performance of PROcede when conditions approach the built-in failsafe limits so that "limp mode" opperation won't occur in track-level operation...... it will just scale back, in a transparent fashion, the augmentation somewhere between stock and full PROcede levels without triggering "limp mode". As the operating paramaters normalize, it scales back up to full performance with the same linear effect, so you dont encounter "steps" as it does it's job. Sounds awesome, so lets hope that beta testing is going as well as indicated and this adapation feature materializes along with the extra performance entailed in V.2.

So it won't go into limp mode but if necessary it will reduce power to less than stock levels so that oil and coolant temperature can drop down to within safe parameters?

[dxb335d]

therefore will start slowing the car, down, it will have less horsepower in such situations and the 911 you just passed will come flying back past as your PROcede starts holding back

[judec]

I think it was already discussed in some other thread, it is not like this, but even if it would be, what would be better - getting passed by that bad 911 swearing like there's no heaven, but with a chance to come back in a few moments, or getting limp and being passed anyway?

[Jonmartin]

Well a Procede 335 ran a 12-hour race at bathurst and they won with an almost completely stock car except tires and suspension I think so uh that should tell you what you want to know.

[ritesh]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

Well a Procede 335 ran a 12-hour race at bathurst and they won with an almost completely stock car except tires and suspension I think so uh that should tell you what you want to know.

Wasn't there talk of updated oil coolers or something along those lines as well on those cars?

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Two BMW 335s are racing, right now, in the famous Bathurst 12HR Product Car endurance race. And closing in on hour 7 (~145 laps!!), both cars are still in one piece!! Not only are they doing well, one of them (Gary Holt's #20) set the fastest time of day. Unfortunately, a fuel leak sidelined it temporarily but it came back with a vengance. It's currently in 2nd place, just behind a Subaru STI spec C. The other 335 is not too far behind and is also cutting super quick laps.

Check it the live results: http://www.bimf.com.au/live_results.asp
And some updates: http://www.bimf.com.au/latest_news.a...=16&Pagecat=16

For those who don't know, Bathurst is a famous race attracting privateers and factory teams alike. Mazda, Subaru, Mitsu, etc,. all struggle to see their cars win the race for a whole year's worth of bragging rights. It's awesome to see two privateer 335s doing so well. The cars are largely stock. Very minimal prep is allowed. The BMWs must run stock peak boost pressures (~0.7bar), stock radiator, etc,. The only cooling work that was done to the cars were removal of the AC condensor and a larger oil cooler.

Power mods, on both cars, consist of full exhaust (no cats) and, of course, PROcedes!! During the tuning, we were very nervous about turbo longevity since our 335s have miniature version of Evo turbos that usually only last 5-6hrs during racing conditions before blowing up. But so far, so good. Keeping any car together for 7hrs (and still going) is quite an achievment. Let's hope they can get through the next 5hrs and get a podium finish!!

[RiXst3r]

not intercoolers... they had upgraded oil coolers... i see you just updated your post, you got it

[judec]

intercoolers were not available atm, maybe they were not even alowed, who knows? Whatever, U shouldnt have any issues related to procede and if your oil temp jumps too high during heavy abuse on track, U know what to look for before the next race...

[dxb335d]

if they have stock boost?? but have procede how are they making more power than stock, to make 370-400bhp you need higher boost

[judec]

they did not have stock boost, they had the procede. the rules of the race did not allow to use upgraded hardware which would affect performance, thus assuming U have stock turbos = U have stock boost pressures. They did not count with such an underboosted stock car like a 335i. Also they didnt count with a procede to cure this

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by ritesh

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
The only cooling work that was done to the cars were removal of the AC condensor and a larger oil cooler.

No change at all to the intake?

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

if they have stock boost?? but have procede how are they making more power than stock, to make 370-400bhp you need higher boost

Apparently, they could go to stock *peak levels* (maybe +2 psi or so). Plus more power can be made by advancing the timing, running leaner, for example.

[judec]

nono, they were running richer like stock, reliability insurance on the long race. Not bad idea cooling the turbos with a small surplus of unburned gas. Running lean would spare some fuel, but the result would be a pair of melting turbos, no way it would survive 12h @ WOT. BTW, cudos to Shiv, I guess it was his idea

[jon@themshop]

The race cars didnt have any cats either so less stress on the turbos.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by judec

Running lean would spare some fuel, but the result would be a pair of melting turbos, no way it would survive 12h @ WOT. BTW, cudos to Shiv, I guess it was his idea

leanER, not lean. It's part of tuning.

[dxb335d]

if they were running procede they would be running MORE boost!!!

just because the car may have stock turbos doesnt mean its running stock boost

no way could the car make anywhere near 370-400bhp @the crank without running higher boost, which you admitted by saying there running procede which raises boost pressure aswell as altering ignition and timing maps?!!

Carl

[DrDomer]

FWIW... I just spent the afternoon at Autobahn raceway in Joliet, Illinois. We drove 335i sedans with auto and oil cooler installed by BMW after assembled in Germany. Prior to oil cooler the cars would overheat in a half hour on a 1.5 mile track when driven at their limits in 80 degree weather. Today I drove the same car with oil cooler installed and after 1 hour of hot laps the car was at 300 degrees even with heater and defrost going full bore. Instructor says it's an issue, and they're working with BMW to resolve it. Straight from the horse's mouth.

[adc]

The key words about the Bathhurst tunes are "stock peak boost level" IMO.

If you take care to not exceed the peak boost, but tune the car to run stock peak boost level everywhere (with associated timing/fuel alterations), you will make a lot more power than stock.


To the OP: If running the car on track a lot, I'd definitely upgrade the oil cooler. Looking at the pictures, it's just a run-of-the-mill oil cooler, should not be difficult for a race shop to get you a bigger one, or to help you install it.

Another idea would be to run a 2nd OEM oil cooler on the other side of the car. All you'd need in this case are some oil lines and a custom bracket.

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by adc

The key words about the Bathhurst tunes are "stock peak boost level" IMO.

If you take care to not exceed the peak boost, but tune the car to run stock peak boost level everywhere (with associated timing/fuel alterations), you will make a lot more power than stock.


To the OP: If running the car on track a lot, I'd definitely upgrade the oil cooler. Looking at the pictures, it's just a run-of-the-mill oil cooler, should not be difficult for a race shop to get you a bigger one, or to help you install it.

Another idea would be to run a 2nd OEM oil cooler on the other side of the car. All you'd need in this case are some oil lines and a custom bracket.

I agree, as the stock oil cooler doesn't seem to be sufficient. Not sure how the cars survived 12 hrs at Bathurst. Must have had upgraded cooling systems.

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

FWIW... I just spent the afternoon at Autobahn raceway in Joliet, Illinois. We drove 335i sedans with auto and oil cooler installed by BMW after assembled in Germany. Prior to oil cooler the cars would overheat in a half hour on a 1.5 mile track when driven at their limits in 80 degree weather. Today I drove the same car with oil cooler installed and after 1 hour of hot laps the car was at 300 degrees even with heater and defrost going full bore. Instructor says it's an issue, and they're working with BMW to resolve it. Straight from the horse's mouth.

This is consistent with what others have seen, oil cooler helps but you can still get the car in Limp Mode when pushed hard on the track. Hopefully they get this worked out on future models.

[IMJUSS2NASTY]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

I agree, as the stock oil cooler doesn't seem to be sufficient. Not sure how the cars survived 12 hrs at Bathurst. Must have had upgraded cooling systems.

They had a bigger oil pan/cooler. Why would you doubt pro's that had actually tested the car for 12 hours. I feel extremely comfortable driving the car hard (as I do all the time)and do not expect any problems at all.