[colt9987]

I have used the search function and maybe I am just looking for some hope but here it goes...

I have had my car at the dealer numerous times since I got it with 35k miles. I have had warranty work done such as HPFP etc. and the entire time I have had an intake and a secondary cat delete. I have never had an issue once. Lately I have had smoke from my tailpipes. I took it the first time, they assure me it is not the turbos and it is the fuel injectors. I change those out. Same problem. Take it back and they tell me it is the oil filter housing gasket and one other gasket. I change those. They again tell me they extensively checked the turbos and they are fine. I have spent about 2500 bucks at this time getting these things done not at the dealer. I take it back a third time, they finally agree with me and say IT IS the turbos, but they are denying to fix them because of my air intake and secondary cat delete. I am beyond livid. Am I completely out of hope? How can I take it there numerous times and they never say one word about my intake and now all of a sudden when a big problem comes around, deny me.

[Wedge1967]

With the turbos, they have guidelines they have to follow and if I'm not mistaken the regional service manager will inspected the car before they approve replacement. If it truly is your turbos, I would put everything back to stock and take it to another dealership.

[GetSomeE92]

Pretty sure it is their burden to show how an intake and secondary cat delete would cause the turbos to fail. Don't roll over about it, demand that they explain that to you. While aftermarket modifications can void your warranty, I believe the law is that the dealer has to show how the aftermarket modification caused the broken part to fail.

Check out this link, it may help you: Magnuson-Moss Act

EDIT: Under the provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, an automotive dealership/carmaker cannot void your warranty because your vehicle has been modified with aftermarket parts. They (the manufacturers) have to prove that the failure was the direct result of the installed aftermarket part. If they just tell you your warranty is voided, they are in violation of this law.

[Wedge1967]

Originally Posted by GetSomeE92

Pretty sure it is their burden to show how an intake and secondary cat delete would cause the turbos to fail. Don't roll over about it, demand that they explain that to you. While aftermarket modifications can void your warranty, I believe the law is that the dealer has to show how the aftermarket modification caused the broken part to fail.

Check out this link, it may help you: Magnuson-Moss Act

I don't disagree and I have also read this, but with the class action, they included that any performance mods would void the coverage. So they will look for anything and everything you have done to your car... So back to stock and try again. Then I would open a case with BMWNA.

[Patrick303]

It's gonna be a big grey area. It's a stretch to say that either of your mods caused turbo failure, but if they really want to push they could say the aftermarket filter isn't BMW approved and could have let larger particles into the compressor housing....or that the cat delete reduced backpressure which isn't BMW spec. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a your word vs theirs.

I agree with the other guy about taking the mods off and taking to a different dealership if possible.

BTW, if your car is under warranty and the work you listed included HPFP, injectors, oil filter housing, and a gasket...how the hell did that equal $2500 out of pocket??? Most if not all of that work should be covered under warranty.

[GetSomeE92]

Originally Posted by Wedge1967

I don't disagree and I have also read this, but with the class action, they included that any performance mods would void the coverage. So they will look for anything and everything you have done to your car... So back to stock and try again. Then I would open a case with BMWNA.

I definitely don't disagree with returning the car to stock when taking it to the dealer. But I can't imagine that an intake and secondary cat delete would ever cause turbos to fail. If anything, helping them inhale and exhale easier should extend their life.

You do bring up a good point about the settlement regarding the extended turbo warranty, though. I'm not sure what that says, so I can't really comment on it.

[colt9987]

Originally Posted by Patrick719

It's gonna be a big grey area. It's a stretch to say that either of your mods caused turbo failure, but if they really want to push they could say the aftermarket filter isn't BMW approved and could have let larger particles into the compressor housing....or that the cat delete reduced backpressure which isn't BMW spec. Hopefully it doesn't turn into a your word vs theirs.

I agree with the other guy about taking the mods off and taking to a different dealership if possible.

BTW, if your car is under warranty and the work you listed included HPFP, injectors, oil filter housing, and a gasket...how the hell did that equal $2500 out of pocket??? Most if not all of that work should be covered under warranty.

The hpfp was done under warranty twice... The gaskets and injectors were out of pocket because I'm over 50k and those were the two diagnosis that they gave me the first two times I took it in.. The dealer total was 4500 for both trips combined but I took it somewhere else and got it done for 2500 total

[Sparky68]

Wouldnt the secondary cat removal allow the turbos to work harder?[surely thats the point of doing it] or am i mistaken? I can see there point of view, you have changed the way the turbos behave and may have caused more wear in doing so. Hopefully i am barking up the wrong tree and you are covered.

[colt9987]

I feel that after giving me two wrong diagnosis and asking me to pay them $4500 (I got them done for $2500 elsewhere) to get those done when the ENTIRE time I was telling them I thought it was the turbos and they assured me I was wrong and the turbos are fine that they should do these out of goodwill. Especially when the intake could not in any way cause this (per some research on here) and the secondary cat delete is after the turbos anyway!

[E92TTKING]

turbos are under recall until 82K miles.
Just say you have white smoke and some wastegate rattle.

Go to a different dealer, this one is obviously fucked if they are denying for an intake and sec cat delete LOL

[eric@helix]

Going to a different dealer with the car stock is your best bet. As stated above the MM warranty act may help you if you are willing to go to the litigious mats against your dealership, but it would be a long hard, and potentially expensive fight.

If you are lucky, they have not noted your modifications on your repair orders (which are uploaded to the BMW mother ship via your key). If they have, the regional rep will know about your mods, wherever you take the car. Good luck.

[DallasBoosted]

You can always threaten to file suit in small claims court. Usually the jurisdictional limit in that type of court is 5 or 10 thousand dollars, but the cost of the turbos will be less than this. It will cost them that much to have their corporate counsel defend the claim, and the burden of proof is very different in small claims than in a district court type setting.

Yes, I am a lawyer.

Edit: I see you're in Dallas. You probably took it to BMW of Dallas. Those guys are idiots. Take it Classic or Autobahn in Fort Worth.

[Clarkson]

I would be worried that they would turn me in for modifying emissions. That's a pretty steep bill and hard to get out of.

[BoostedE90]

Unfortunately there have been a few posts about dealers voiding warranties because of the secondary cat delete or even because of an aftermarket exhaust which have no secondary cats.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124357

This is also a good read. I know it deals with the waste gate & HPFP lawsuit but in your case it is still a maintenance/warranty claim: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626977

The important part is this...

...Per the terms of the original New Vehicle Limited Warranty, BMW NA will not provide warranty
coverage to any Settlement Class Vehicle containing modifications or alterations to the
turbocharger or its wastegates (software, hardware or otherwise), or evidencing other conditions
not normally covered under the original New Vehicle Limited Warranty applicable to the
Settlement Class Member's Settlement Class Vehicle.
TIS : Dealer Communication System Message Page 1 of 2
http://www.bmwtis.net/tiscode/dcs/dc...asp?pk_id=1955 12/23/2011
Modifications excluded from warranty coverage include any aftermarket parts that affect the
turbocharger system.

Unfortunately that last sentence covers a lot of grey area.


*TIP - when searching use the advanced search from Google and point it to e90post cause you can do much more with it. The search function on the forum is very generic*

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by DallasBoosted

I see you're in Dallas. You probably took it to BMW of Dallas. Those guys are idiots. Take it Classic or Autobahn in Fort Worth.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! Not the first time I've seen/heard that! I always had my warranty work done at Classic.

[colt9987]

I talked to the dealer service manager this morning. He now tells me that what they MEANT to say was that IF it was my waste gates that caused the turbo failure, then the intake could have voided my warranty. But it in fact WAS NOT the waste gates that are effed, its the actual turbo, so my car wouldn't be covered under the warranty anyway. Thoughts on this?

[colt9987]

Originally Posted by DallasBoosted

You can always threaten to file suit in small claims court. Usually the jurisdictional limit in that type of court is 5 or 10 thousand dollars, but the cost of the turbos will be less than this. It will cost them that much to have their corporate counsel defend the claim, and the burden of proof is very different in small claims than in a district court type setting.

Yes, I am a lawyer.

Edit: I see you're in Dallas. You probably took it to BMW of Dallas. Those guys are idiots. Take it Classic or Autobahn in Fort Worth.

Car is at Classic FYI.

[BoostedE90]

Originally Posted by colt9987

I talked to the dealer service manager this morning. He now tells me that what they MEANT to say was that IF it was my waste gates that caused the turbo failure, then the intake could have voided my warranty. But it in fact WAS NOT the waste gates that are effed, its the actual turbo, so my car wouldn't be covered under the warranty anyway. Thoughts on this?

According to this he is correct.

[colt9987]

Unfortunately I saw this too haha. Guess I am SOL and going to have EVEN MORE out of pocket. Anyone have a good american daily driver recommendation? haha

Originally Posted by BoostedE90

According to this he is correct.

[BoostedE90]

If you could figure out a way to induce some rattle then you're covered. I am still baffled as to how BWMNA can say they will only replace a turbo if it failed because of the wastegate?

I guess they consider turbo failure normal wear and tear?

[spiike32]

This is exactly why you take everything off before going to a dealer. There are no "lenient dealers" and when shit hits the fan, they claim warranty is voided.

Also there wasn't a "recall" on turbos, they extended the warranty on the turbos. So if your warranty is voided, per my service advisor that I just asked, then the extended warranty on your turbo is also voided.

If I were you, take you car back from Classic and go to another dealership totally stock. The effort to demod and remod is worth it.

[335xi Kevo]

If the worst is to happen, vagras has a cheap turbo upgrade sub $1600 I believe. Might be worth looking into. I hope u stick it to Stealership though.

I don't understand why most dealers deny service, the techs are being compensated for the work. Most are paid by the job, I wouldn't "rat" on a fellow enthusiast.