[Tallest]

Reposting my original post from here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=780762


I thought I would would share my thoughts after recently selling my nice 325i Montego, capping off ca 5 year ownership of 2 different E90s. I hope my experience may be somewhat useful to those of you considering diesel vs petrol dilema.

In a word: Diesel!
All in all, if you have to choose between the two, take the 320d. Yes, the 325i has smooth engine, and no diesel shake means virtually rattle-free interior in a 5 year old car but... 320d fuel consumption is much much better, 320d in town performance is NOT inferior to 325i - and for pure feel of the thing, I prefer the very honest bare bones 320d to the pretty well specced 325i.

So a somewhat easy victory I would say for 320d after my long-term test of both of them. The 320d cost me 41% less to own per km compared to 325i (and I actually felt it).

What's the running costs like?

TiAg 2006 320d Auto, km driven: 60000 (end 2007-2011)

COSTS
Repairs: 2260 EUR
Oil changes etc and wash: 1500 EUR
Cosmetic: 2230 EUR
Fuel: 6240 EUR
TOTAL: 12230 EUR / 3057 EUR per year / 20 cents per km

Repairs
- 2x Halogen light bulbs - 30 EUR for 2
- stabilizer arm front right (hit a pothole) - 40 EUR OEM + labour --- caused tyre wear (see next)
- 1 summer tyre (bubble) - 100 EUR
- alignment done x3 times 120 EUR
- 2 sets of winter tyres 1200 EUR
- broken wire in gearbox lever - won't switch to Sport - 60 EUR wire soldiering
- wipers (x2) - 100 EUR
- engine diagnostics on turbo - software update 60 EUR
- brake disks (Brembo front) warped - 300 EUR
- brake pads rear and front - 200 EUR inc sensor
- windshield replaced 3 times (stone chips, in general poor quality Pinkilton glass) - (free - insurance)
- steering column lock - errors - cleared - never came back (free)
- coil (1x) and fogging sensor interior went bad - not fixed, car sold, new
buyer took care of it

Service
- oil changes + filters (x4)- ca 1000 EUR
- ca 500 on polish, detail overall, chemical cleaning of cloth interior once

Mods
- 17in 161 wheels + tyres = 1500 EUR
- exhaust tip OEM - 60 EUR
- tint - 150 EUR
- interior trim CF wrap - 60 EUR materials, DIY
- painted door handles - 200 EUR (wow, what was I thinking)
- BMW mobility kit + other trunk auxiliaries (jack etc) - 200 EUR
- Black matte grilles non OEM - 60 EUR

PS. That "new car smell" went away around 45000 km mark and I think silver is best color for E90 body style - car looks bit bigger and smarter, and you see all the lines well, especially that ridge along the doors. Blue color hides it too much. Plus silver is low maintenance color.

PICS:
Motion

Still

Interior


Montego 2007 325i Auto, km driven: 10000 (2012)

COSTS
Repairs: 460 EUR
Oil changes etc and wash: 400 EUR
Cosmetic: 380 EUR
FUEL: 2210 EUR
TOTAL: EUR 3425 (year) / 34 cents per km

Repairs
- wipers - 45 EUR
- rear suspension trailing arms replaced 200 EUR
- rear brake pads replaced + sensor 120 EUR
- alignments 40 EUR
- xenon bulb (60 EUR for 2, one still kept - so 30 EUR count)

Service
- oil change (250 EUR)
- polish and detail - 150 EUR

Mods
- swaped rims (17 rims for OEM 18 with good tyres) - 300 EUR
- OEM double exhaust tips - 80 EUR from USA
- M3 spoiler (free from vendor)
- taped license plates for clean look (free)

PICS:
Motion

Still

Interior


What about depreciation?
60% depreciation on 325i from new to 5 years old
55% depreciation on 320d from new to 5 years old

I think an honest and simple BMW is more true to its roots and makes more sense economically. The 320d new was ca 33000 EUR and 325i new was around 42500 EUR - both were sold for around similar prices of 15-17 thousand EUR being 5 years old and depreciation is much worse on 325i - it's a reason why I dont buy cars new.

Both cars were leases, and were sold at above residual so I got some money back - definitely recovered all spent on mods and then some, but nothing crazy to write home about.


PPS
While I appreciate what BMW tried to do with 325i, i.e. give entry level 6 cyl engine, I think it is a flop to some degree. It's too weak to deliver the thrills and it keeps you aware of the amount of fuel it gulps in process of somewhat gingerly moving you along. 320d on the other hand is just so willing, punchy and never makes you care about fuel consumption. Yes you need to baby the turbo a bit and not shut it off after spirited driving and the coils go on these cars but all in all - it's such a lovely car to own and much cheaper.

I never had a chance to sample the manual version, but ideally I'd spec these for a perfect E90 (if you want a used one one):

• Comfort seats (my back hurts from sports)
• cloth (perfect for winter which we have a lot of)
• Xenons (halogens are crap)
• Cruise control with braking function
• Rain sensor
• folding rear seats (or Touring version really)
• 18 in wheels (handling and looks and less tramline than on 17s)
• heated seats
• Split armrest
• Automatic
• Using Iphone aps for naviagation (not MAPS!) so never missed iDrive
  

If you got questions shoot away, happy to answer. Hopefully my running record helps someone in buying the car used - I think it's phenomenally reliable model.


TL: DR - compared 320d to 325i in similar age, would pick 320d on superior power to fuel economy balance, and better residuals, despite much better equipment on 325i.

[xPETEZx]

Nice comparison!

I wonder what difference it would make if the 2 cars had been manual?

I image the Diesel suits the auto better, and the petrol would suit the manual better.

I have a 325i, and I know what you mean about it sometimes not delivering all that much go. However I find if you make sure you are in the right gear and keep the revs high it really really go's.
I am glad I have not driven any of the more powerful versions of this car as it would just make me want them!

I did however drive the 325i right after the 320d, and the 325i won me over straight away.
Both where manuals though. Just loved the engine note and how easily it picked up revs.

In terms of costs, the fear of the 177bhp engine kept me away from the 320d. Too many stories of timing chains snapping for my liking.
Coulden't stretch the budget for a 184bhp version otherwise I might have ended up in a 320d too

[wallsmk2]

Tested both back to back when I bought mine and driven many incarnations of the BMW diesel since. In my opinion, the only advantage the diesel has is fuel economy, admittedly it is a great advantage if you're pootling around town, but on the motorway the gap narrows massively.

Whenever I get back into my baby 6 pot, the engine makes it feel like a tiny weeny bit of luxury. To me, the noise and the refinement of a diesel engine hasn't improved greatly from old trusty 1.9 golf tdi. I have owned many diesels and they were great, but I don't think I'll ever go back to one especially if the 10p fuel price gap remains.

[HighlandPete]

I've looked at the linked thread and note the two cars were run for different periods and totally different mileage. So although not debating the actual running costs of each, it isn't quite a level playing field for long term costs. From how I see it (have lots of years looking at statistics) it is skewed towards the longer period of ownership of the 320d. But obviously still cheaper.

The 320d does make a lot of sense, and fuel costs do have a big part to play for most motorists, in choosing which engine to live with.

HighlandPete

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I've looked at the linked thread and note the two cars were run for different periods and totally different mileage. So although not debating the actual running costs of each, it isn't quite a level playing field for long term costs. From how I see it (have lots of years looking at statistics) it is skewed towards the longer period of ownership of the 320d. But obviously still cheaper.

The 320d does make a lot of sense, and fuel costs do have a big part to play for most motorists, in choosing which engine to live with.

HighlandPete

Yup, not saying it's a clean comparison.

I owned 320d much more than 325i. I think still 6 years in both cars combined gives me some sort of good comparison. I also did most of driving in town in the end and felt that for that 320d was very nice.

I had a 163 HP 320d guys, not 177 - is 163hp more reliable? It never missed a beat, sans the coil.

For fuel comparison I used SAME price per liter, to keep things simple and also to make sure that all these big fluctuations in recession etc are smoothed out.

As you noted, I sold cars shortly after recession we had, which means I'm actually not selling at best prices, so depreciation is not nice either...

PS. I repost here the full post from that thread so no need to click and go anymore.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by xPETEZx

Nice comparison!

I wonder what difference it would make if the 2 cars had been manual?

I image the Diesel suits the auto better, and the petrol would suit the manual better.

I have a 325i, and I know what you mean about it sometimes not delivering all that much go. However I find if you make sure you are in the right gear and keep the revs high it really really go's.
I am glad I have not driven any of the more powerful versions of this car as it would just make me want them!

I did however drive the 325i right after the 320d, and the 325i won me over straight away.
Both where manuals though. Just loved the engine note and how easily it picked up revs.

In terms of costs, the fear of the 177bhp engine kept me away from the 320d. Too many stories of timing chains snapping for my liking.
Coulden't stretch the budget for a 184bhp version otherwise I might have ended up in a 320d too

Well, I agree 325i manual might be much better bet. The auto and 2.5l engine is just not a good match.

[wallsmk2]

I disagree, I reckon the 325i and the auto is a very good match. It makes perfect use of the silkiness of the engine and is really relaxing around town, but also due to the lack of torque (which is why it doesn't feel that fast) the auto helps by changing optimally. I agree, when in gear at say 70, I really want the auto to kick down an extra gear to give more oompf but when you look at the speedo the speed increases rapidly but without all hell breaking loose as happens with the big diesels.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by wallsmk2

I disagree, I reckon the 325i and the auto is a very good match. It makes perfect use of the silkiness of the engine and is really relaxing around town, but also due to the lack of torque (which is why it doesn't feel that fast) the auto helps by changing optimally. I agree, when in gear at say 70, I really want the auto to kick down an extra gear to give more oompf but when you look at the speedo the speed increases rapidly but without all hell breaking loose as happens with the big diesels.

I guess i prefer the on-off nature of the diesel more. So for me, on highway is where 325i was superior - the car would just keep on going where diesel is struggling, overtaking was very easy and due to no crazy torque, i could punch it in winter knowing it's not gonna wheelspin at 100kmh (diesel could on slippery roads).

The 320d I drove in town in end of its term a lot, and then made sure to do some odd long highway blast to get DPF back to good order. It was better car in town, no question in mind about it. I felt that i had no use for 325i high end power with city limits of 50kmh. :S off the traffic light i didn't see much difference, and merging into lanes was easier in 320d due to its in gear pull too.


Oh and I once tried the 330xd as well (touring). now THAT is diesel craziness. I really liked it!

[dotmit]

Interesting comparison. I never even considered a 320d when I was buying my car.

I had a spreadsheet and assigned a score to various different cars on my list. Among these were a Jaguar XK, a Porsche 993, several BMWs (1 and 3) and even an Aston Martin.

Basically the E93 came out as the top scorer in all the different engine variants, and I didn't care whether it was a 325i or d, 330i or d or 335i. Actually for me the 325d was the top scorer followed by the 330d and then 330i, 325i and 335i. This is because I had assigned points based on all kinds of personal criteria. Point is the E93 came above everything else.

After that I looked at running costs and coming from an E46 325i I had decided that if the running costs were even slightly higher I wouldn't mind the car, as it wasn't an issue for me.

In the end I bought a 325i because it had the right level of optional extras I wanted. I wasn't fussed which engine variant as long as the options list was right, and funnily enough many of the options you have listed as your ideal ones are the ones that were on my list

I don't regret buying my 325i at all. The only problem I've had with it is that I think the BMW Approved Used scheme should include an update to the navigation maps and I have filed a complaint with BMW about this.

I don't think I would have been as happy with a diesel. For me it's more about smoothness and how relaxing it is to drive and the 325i auto is fantastic around town. I don't even bother using the steptronic mode, it's a really nice cruiser...

I learnt a long time ago not to look at the price of petrol or I'll weep a little every time I fill up!

[A_P]

What!! NO aston jag or porsche? even to own for a year then by the BM?

[dotmit]

Originally Posted by A_P

What!! NO aston jag or porsche? even to own for a year then by the BM?

99% of my driving is in town. Just didn't make sense. The Aston gives 9mpg, and the Jag 14mpg. Both have very limited space for passengers (well, the Aston has none really) and rear seat passengers feature regularly in my car. Also the Jag is absolutely huge. Not only do you have very little cabin space but the car is as long and wide as an aircraft carrier and therefore very difficult to park, and there are already several width restrictions I know of that the BMW only just fits through with the mirrors folded!
The Porsche was great on paper but I'd forgotten how spartan they are in the cabin. I just couldn't see myself driving one regularly, not having all the creature comforts I was used to in my E46 let alone an E93.

Also, and this might sound weird, but they lost their appeal once I realised I could afford to buy and run them...

[A_P]

hmm all valid points i guess. just wouldve been nice.

[Phil325i]

A few years ago I would have agreed with the 'diesel is best' argument, but having been a diesel driver for nearly 20 years and having just switched to petrol, I don't think the case is as clear cut as it once was.

Sure, if you have a company car and your driving consists of pounding the Motorways, then it's a no-brainer. But four factors made me change.

1. The purchase price difference
2. The increasing pump price differential in favour of petrol
3. The closing mpg gap between petrol and diesel cars
4. The way fitting DPFs has introduced an unacceptable burden on the driver.

By No. 4 I mean the way, to clear my DPF, I had to find a piece of road where I could drive for 10 miles or so within a fixed rev band (who wants to do that?!).

I'm loving the smooth power delivery, quiet tickover and 40+mpg on the run from my 325i.

Just my five penn'orth...

[Tallest]

You get 40mpg in 325i?? Details? )