About DP CELs

533ogetnom · 08-20-2007, 01:11 AM

not sure if this has been touched on in the various threads as i have not read them fully, if so ignore it, but anyway:

i was talking to someone today because it came up, and he gave a good explanation as to why its not triggering a CEL, he was talking about how the 2 senors arent compared often since its a turbo car the varying boost makes it impossible to compare the two the majority of the time as compared to an NA car where the values are easily predictable

this means a wider range and a longer time required out of that range before a CEL is triggered

now the one guy who did throw a CEL said it was after cruising for a long time at part throttle, without me even saying that, the guy i was talking to said it in so many words that thats how you would probably trigger one

thought i would pass it on

M&M · 08-20-2007, 01:18 AM

That actually sounds about right.

NYCGarbagePrince · 08-21-2007, 10:52 AM

that was me. And Cels are thrown no matter what. They are stored and later appear they are rarely immeadiate unless its a serious problem. (which has yet to occur) What I am getting is Limp mode when applying partial throttle and not generating boost for extended periods of time. The codes you do get with DPs are O2 codes and efficiency codes. i clear them every 2-3 days.

533ogetnom · 08-21-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

that was me. And Cels are thrown no matter what. They are stored and later appear they are rarely immeadiate unless its a serious problem. (which has yet to occur) What I am getting is Limp mode when applying partial throttle and not generating boost for extended periods of time. The codes you do get with DPs are O2 codes and efficiency codes. i clear them every 2-3 days.

that exactly what i just said, when the turbos are on boost there is no way for the car to take measurements and compare them because the values are far far far to varied to predict

when your off boost your like an NA car and the values are again possible to predict (but still take a lot longer im sure since your never really fully off boost if your part throttle)

what proof do you have that the codes are stored when your not getting a CEL?

NYCGarbagePrince · 08-21-2007, 11:17 AM

Because that is how the computer checks for anomalies. Nothing has changed within my car in a 36 hour span but if the light was to come on as soon as there was a problem it would be on immeadiately. It wouldnt be off for a while and then come back. Hell i have had Cel pop up when pulling into my driveway just before i turned it off. When i turned the car back on the Cel dissapeared and later that day reappeared. If it was as you said an immeadiate response to a problem then it would appear instantaneously.

533ogetnom · 08-21-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

If it was as you said an immeadiate response to a problem then it would appear instantaneously.

where did i say that? i no longer have a clue what your talking about

1clean335i · 08-21-2007, 11:19 AM

He does get CEL's... thats why he said he has to clear them every 2-3 days....

NYCGarbagePrince · 08-21-2007, 11:21 AM

Well you are saying when i run the car out of boost (partial throttle) at its leanest the CEL would immeadiately come on. But it doesnt. It comes on after the car has been running for an extended period of time. That is what i am saying. I apologize i reread what you posted and how i responded. I didnt mean it like that.

533ogetnom · 08-21-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

Well you are saying when i run the car out of boost (partial throttle) at its leanest the CEL would immeadiately come on. But it doesnt.

i did NOT say that, go re read i said the exat opposite, i said this is where you have the most CHANCE of triggering a CEL but even in this situation it would take a while given that the car is still partially on boost, but that is the situation where the values will be most uniform and comparable

NYCGarbagePrince · 08-21-2007, 11:29 AM

Alright, I understand what you are saying now.

stressdoc · 08-21-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

What I am getting is Limp mode when applying partial throttle and not generating boost for extended periods of time.

Ledzep? No comment?

A418t81 · 08-21-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

that was me. And Cels are thrown no matter what. They are stored and later appear they are rarely immeadiate unless its a serious problem. (which has yet to occur) What I am getting is Limp mode when applying partial throttle and not generating boost for extended periods of time. The codes you do get with DPs are O2 codes and efficiency codes. i clear them every 2-3 days.

So you go into limp mode at partial throttle with the UR pownpipes? Also, you are throwing codes for cat efficiency, but not CEL because of them?

A418t81 · 08-21-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

that exactly what i just said, when the turbos are on boost there is no way for the car to take measurements and compare them because the values are far far far to varied to predict

when your off boost your like an NA car and the values are again possible to predict (but still take a lot longer im sure since your never really fully off boost if your part throttle)

what proof do you have that the codes are stored when your not getting a CEL?

Dude, WTF are you talking about? There's nothing special about a turbo as far as 02 sensors are concerned. There are lots of turbocharged cars out there that will throw a CEL no problem when you pull the cat. It has nothing to do with "not being able to predict" anything. The computer only looks for a minimum offset between the pre and post cat 02s. If its there, the cat is good, if not, CEL time.

Also, there's no "open loop" with the N54. It has stereo widebands and knows whats going on regardless of throttle angle/boost pressure, so that theory goes out the window.

533ogetnom · 08-21-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A418t81

Dude, WTF are you talking about? There's nothing special about a turbo as far as 02 sensors are concerned. There are lots of turbocharged cars out there that will throw a CEL no problem when you pull the cat. It has nothing to do with "not being able to predict" anything. The computer only looks for a minimum offset between the pre and post cat 02s. If its there, the cat is good, if not, CEL time.

Also, there's no "open loop" with the N54. It has stereo widebands and knows whats going on regardless of throttle angle/boost pressure, so that theory goes out the window.

okie doki then, YOU try and explain why everyone else is not getting CELs then

cn555ic · 08-21-2007, 08:39 PM

So if you get DP with the cats then no CEL should be thrown if thats what i am getting from you guys...I mean i want to mod but if those damn Cel keep popping up, then its no for me!!!

cn555ic · 08-21-2007, 08:42 PM

My car with the Procede gave me a limp mode once and i was pretty pissed off, but after that if never happened again...If adding DP as throwing cels, i rathar not even have that mod...I want my car to have no lights in the dash other than the normal icons

A418t81 · 08-21-2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

okie doki then, YOU try and explain why everyone else is not getting CELs then

Who isn't getting a CEL? The guy in this thread appears to be getting limp mode from his down pipes and he commented on codes.

533ogetnom · 08-21-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A418t81

Who isn't getting a CEL? The guy in this thread appears to be getting limp mode from his down pipes and he commented on codes.

hes one out of about 10 people getting it?

i should rephrase that, hes one person out of 10 people that i know of w/ DP w/ deleted cats whos actually getting a CEL

A418t81 · 08-21-2007, 09:06 PM

Gotcha. I am looking at the de-catted downpipes as well and have been trying to figure out if the DPs are causing CELs or not. Regardless, I don't have a good answer why the car doesn't throw a CEL when the cats are removed. Its federally mandated that the car does, could be some sort of glitch.

rideelement247 · 08-22-2007, 10:05 PM

is it true that if your car throw a CEL then the warranty is voided? it is somewhat my concern since im getting DP and exhaust from UR in a few days.

down4it · 08-22-2007, 11:10 PM

I am running custom made catless downpipes with procede and other mods (see sig) and i have no CEL's and i have been running the DP's for a month, procede for 3-4 months, my car to this day has never gone into limp mode or thown a single code...

CASHBY · 08-22-2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by down4it

I am running custom made catless downpipes with procede and other mods (see sig) and i have no CEL's and i have been running the DP's for a month, procede for 3-4 months, my car to this day has never gone into limp mode or thown a single code...

as well as mine! Never once thrown code or CEL and have catless DP's.

As mentioned in another thread you might throw a cell and get faulty 02 sensors if they are mounted in the wront position... you either want them on the top or side of the pipe and never on towards the bottom of the pipe.

Another thing is if you cross the 02 sensors... if you put the 02 sensor in the wrong downpipe... the black plug 02 sensor goes in to the longer DP and the Gray 02 Sensor goes in the shorter one... make sure that is right because youll throw a CEL if it is crossed.

08-20-2007, 01:11 AM	#1
533ogetnom Banned 102 Rep 1,760 Posts Drives: 335coupe Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Florida iTrader: (1)	About DP CELs not sure if this has been touched on in the various threads as i have not read them fully, if so ignore it, but anyway: i was talking to someone today because it came up, and he gave a good explanation as to why its not triggering a CEL, he was talking about how the 2 senors arent compared often since its a turbo car the varying boost makes it impossible to compare the two the majority of the time as compared to an NA car where the values are easily predictable this means a wider range and a longer time required out of that range before a CEL is triggered now the one guy who did throw a CEL said it was after cruising for a long time at part throttle, without me even saying that, the guy i was talking to said it in so many words that thats how you would probably trigger one thought i would pass it on
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08-20-2007, 01:18 AM	#2
M&M Captain 114 Rep 750 Posts Drives: Boosted Beemers! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa iTrader: (0)	That actually sounds about right.
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08-21-2007, 10:52 AM	#3
NYCGarbagePrince Major 256 Rep 1,435 Posts Drives: X6 50i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	that was me. And Cels are thrown no matter what. They are stored and later appear they are rarely immeadiate unless its a serious problem. (which has yet to occur) What I am getting is Limp mode when applying partial throttle and not generating boost for extended periods of time. The codes you do get with DPs are O2 codes and efficiency codes. i clear them every 2-3 days.
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08-21-2007, 11:17 AM	#5
NYCGarbagePrince Major 256 Rep 1,435 Posts Drives: X6 50i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	Because that is how the computer checks for anomalies. Nothing has changed within my car in a 36 hour span but if the light was to come on as soon as there was a problem it would be on immeadiately. It wouldnt be off for a while and then come back. Hell i have had Cel pop up when pulling into my driveway just before i turned it off. When i turned the car back on the Cel dissapeared and later that day reappeared. If it was as you said an immeadiate response to a problem then it would appear instantaneously.
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08-21-2007, 11:19 AM	#7
1clean335i Perf BMW mag issue 147, 159 432 Rep 6,799 Posts Drives: Project Estoril Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (31) Garage List 2013 335i M-sport [0.00] 2011 X5 xdrive35i M ... [0.00] 2009 335i M-sport [0.00] 07' 335i Sedan [0.00]	He does get CEL's... thats why he said he has to clear them every 2-3 days.... __________________ '13 Estoril Blue 335i M-sport *Don't PM me!* Message me here- http://www.facebook.com/ProjectEstoril
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08-21-2007, 11:21 AM	#8
NYCGarbagePrince Major 256 Rep 1,435 Posts Drives: X6 50i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	Well you are saying when i run the car out of boost (partial throttle) at its leanest the CEL would immeadiately come on. But it doesnt. It comes on after the car has been running for an extended period of time. That is what i am saying. I apologize i reread what you posted and how i responded. I didnt mean it like that.
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08-21-2007, 11:29 AM	#10
NYCGarbagePrince Major 256 Rep 1,435 Posts Drives: X6 50i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	Alright, I understand what you are saying now.
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08-21-2007, 08:39 PM	#15
cn555ic 464 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	So if you get DP with the cats then no CEL should be thrown if thats what i am getting from you guys...I mean i want to mod but if those damn Cel keep popping up, then its no for me!!!
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08-21-2007, 08:42 PM	#16
cn555ic 464 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	My car with the Procede gave me a limp mode once and i was pretty pissed off, but after that if never happened again...If adding DP as throwing cels, i rathar not even have that mod...I want my car to have no lights in the dash other than the normal icons
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08-21-2007, 09:06 PM	#19
A418t81 Lieutenant Colonel 379 Rep 1,535 Posts Drives: Ever changing fleet Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alabama iTrader: (1) Garage List 2013 335is [0.00]	Gotcha. I am looking at the de-catted downpipes as well and have been trying to figure out if the DPs are causing CELs or not. Regardless, I don't have a good answer why the car doesn't throw a CEL when the cats are removed. Its federally mandated that the car does, could be some sort of glitch. __________________ 23 IOMG G80 CX, 23 iX M60, 24 GT3RS PTS Weissach, 24 RS E-tron GT
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08-22-2007, 10:05 PM	#20
rideelement247 Lieutenant Colonel 61 Rep 1,677 Posts Drives: 08 335i, 67 Camaro SS Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Florida iTrader: (2)	is it true that if your car throw a CEL then the warranty is voided? it is somewhat my concern since im getting DP and exhaust from UR in a few days. __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
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08-22-2007, 11:10 PM	#21
down4it Banned 64 Rep 1,743 Posts Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SoCal iTrader: (3)	I am running custom made catless downpipes with procede and other mods (see sig) and i have no CEL's and i have been running the DP's for a month, procede for 3-4 months, my car to this day has never gone into limp mode or thown a single code...
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