[hotrod182]

Last weekend I posted the results of my JB stg 1.0 results. I was fairly happy with the stg 1.0. after driving it for a week. I have tested my car dozens and dozens of times. Stock, it usually trapped 105-106mph (at sea level). It never trapped at over 107mph. But ever since I installed the Juicebox stg 1.0, it would trap at over 107mph regularly when I tested last week. (And posted the results). I told Terry I was interested in trying the stage 2.0 as soon as possible. He contacted me Friday, and told me he would be able to install one on my car this weekend. (Saturday). I couldn't wait to test it.

Before I had the stg 1.0 removed, I decided to run some tests on it to see if there were any changes in performance due to adaptation, etc. I also wanted to test in similar ambient conditions as the stg 2 tests this weekend. This time the trap speeds were a little slower. (Not quite 107mph). I think it is a result of having 1/2 tank of gas, and the ambient temperature. Last week, when I trapped at 107+, the temp was a few degrees cooler. I am beginning to think that even the slightest changes in ambient conditions, have a measurable effect on your performance. Significantly, you can see that all four runs I made this weekend on the stg 1.0 are almost identical. Hence the runs on the graph looks almost like one line). I tested the stage 2.0 Saturday night, as the temp was an identical 67F. The car made several runs over 108mph, which you can see on the graph. Again, you can see the times are almost identical. The car is so close to breaking into the 12 second barrier. But with better traction, and launch, it would be a given. Remember, I was running 13.464 @ only 101mph (7mph slower!) in horrible DA at LACR. (90F, 2700FT). And again, the Gtech Pro was incredibly accurate when compared to the time slips. The other thing to note is that my General Exclaims (which never launched better than the stock RFTs), are almost totally bald. If this were a drag strip with timing lights, I am confident these times/mph are right on the money. The GTech Pro RR is within .15 seconds, and .3mph, in other words, the car WILL run over 108mph. All of you testing with a Gtech, remember to make a run in the reverse direction to make sure the results aren't skewed from a non level road.

I am quite pleased with my results. Granted, this is pretty much at sea level, and a fairly cool 67F. But I know it will also pick up HP soon as summer is over, and the temps cool down even further. I have made dozens and dozens of runs, and like I said, the 335i only trapped over 106mph stock one time, and my M3 has never hit 108MPH. So this trap speed is great for an automatic equipped 335i. You can see my 60' times weren't that great this time around. I launch the car in DS, one push of the DTC button, and simply floor the throttle from around 1400RPM. I tried to build some boost, but the resulting wheel spin, made the car hesitate (DSC light flashing), and I did like a 13.4. So with DRs, and launching with boost, you can imagine the impact it would have on my ETs.

In summary, I am so pleased with the Juice Box 2.0, I know most people would be pleasantly surprised/satisfied with it's perfomance. Freeway cruising at 70mph, still shows around 30mpg. No check engine light or drivability issues whatsoever. For the price ($379), this is the best bang for the buck out there period. And again, if the results were pitiful, you would have heard a different report from me. I have also posted the last graph showing the incremental improvements from stock to stg 2.0. This is impressive, as the various runs made with the same equipment are basically one identical line on the graph. Yet, the improvements from stock to stg 1.0, and finally stg 2.0, are distinctly discernable lines on the last graph. Look at how the 0-60 times, 0-100, and 1/4 mile times predictably improve. Getting the 0-100mph time under 11 seconds is a great improvement. Almost a second better than stock. And again, this shows really shows the real world performance gains in very similary condtions compared to peak hp measured on different dynos on different days. And even if you still hate the Juice Box, hopefully you will find this information useful.

[serge]

Great info!

JB 2.0 is as fast as Procede and for a fraction of the cost.

[bnj]

No data exist for other products, so one cannot make conclusions other than stock vs S1 vs S2.
Excellent results and good testing approach! Thanks.

[hotrod182]

What is amazing is that these runs were only a few minutes apart. I wish there were some 93 octane around here to try. I hear that is good for a few HP. If it makes 5-10 more HP on high octane, that will be significant. Now that I have collected my data (under similar conditions), I will go get my new tires too. And as the cooler months come up, I think breaking into the 12's is a foregone conclusion. (Can you imagine how frustrating it is to have all these runs at 13.0X and not get into the 12"s?) The car definitely feels stronger. But I think the greatest change you will notice is when you go stock and feel the lack of hp/torque. I also notice that when you are on the fwy at 70mph, in DS, the throttle is very responsive, and has immediate torque.

[Lee Rambler]

great post, thanks!

[sdiver68]

Thanks!

Competition is good.

Just thought I'd get this in before the cult starts attacking.

[Lee Rambler]

the trap speeds are what's impressive to me. I appreciate the dynos Mr5 did, but trap speeds are more indicitive of real world performance, at least to me. great, the procede has higher dyno numbers. but the trap speeds seem to be pretty similar between all of the options so far...

[kptaylor]

First off, please add in some paragraphing so it's an easier read!

Also, do you have any A/F info or timing pull info? Those are the areas where Terry's unit gets called into question. Cheaper is better if it doesn't up the risk level too much.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Lee Rambler

the trap speeds are what's impressive to me. I appreciate the dynos Mr5 did, but trap speeds are more indicitive of real world performance, at least to me. great, the procede has higher dyno numbers. but the trap speeds seem to be pretty similar between all of the options so far...

Trap speeds are what I am most interested in also. Everything else will fall into place. Drag radials etc, will push the ET down as far as possible, but won't necessarily affect the trap speeds. As I said before, you can spend 1/2 second spinning for about 15 feet. But in the end, it won't affect your trap speed that much, because 15ft at over 100mph passes by in a split second. So the 15ft you lost is not that great. Its just like you started 15 ft further down from the starting line.

Interestingly enough, if this car had about a 3mph better terminal speed (111mph), then it would probably be running the same ET as the new M3, (12.8), or a little bit quicker. So it would probably need about 30 more horsepower. But everything adds up as predicted. Sure if you put slicks on the new M3, it would be quicker than 12.8 in the qtr. But right now this is only pertaining to regular street tires. Since my tires are pretty much bald slicks right now, does anyone know what kind of an effect this has on traction? Better? Worse? I mean, i know slicks are great, but they are designed from the beginning to be that way.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by kptaylor

First off, please add in some paragraphing so it's an easier read!

Also, do you have any A/F info or timing pull info? Those are the areas where Terry's unit gets called into question. Cheaper is better if it doesn't up the risk level too much.

I had indented for the paragraphs, but it automatically changed that when I submitted the post. In fact, when I went back to edit, the indents are still there! I figure it is compressed to save space. I'm sure there are provisions in the word program, but I haven't bothered to figure it out yet.

Additionally, if you read some of the previously posted dyno information on the TT, JB, Procede, you would realize that the A/F ratios on the JB were probably the most consistant of all. Always within the safety margins. The boost on the JB is probably the lowest of the 3 alternatives. It intentionally runs modest boost at lower rpms. It is usually operating in the margins in which there is very little timing pull directly attributable to the JB operating parameters itself. Compared to the TT, the JB has mixture control through the wideband precat 02 sensors, yet I believe it still runs lower absolute boost numbers. The richer A/F of the stg 2 JB may actually slow it down some in some conditions, but is safer nonetheless. With timing control, the Procede can run much more boost, especially down low. So with DRs, this is very useful. Whether or not this agressive timing control down low will result in seamless operation or not, I really can't report on. On street tires, too much torque might handicap launches for some people. For now, I kind of like the idea of the factory DME having complete control over timing, but thats just me. I want to know long term that other alternatives are reliable, (as much as I hope the JB is also.) Hope this helps to clarify things for you...

[Insider]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

What is amazing is that these runs were only a few minutes apart. I wish there were some 93 octane around here to try. I hear that is good for a few HP. If it makes 5-10 more HP on high octane, that will be significant. Now that I have collected my data (under similar conditions), I will go get my new tires too. And as the cooler months come up, I think breaking into the 12's is a foregone conclusion. (Can you imagine how frustrating it is to have all these runs at 13.0X and not get into the 12"s?) The car definitely feels stronger. But I think the greatest change you will notice is when you go stock and feel the lack of hp/torque. I also notice that when you are on the fwy at 70mph, in DS, the throttle is very responsive, and has immediate torque.

Are you eventually going to test the PROcede? I think that would be interesting to see the difference, especially V2.

[E90Russ]

Awesome results. Thanks for posting this! 0-60 in 4.5 seconds is pretty sweet.

I think the Juice Box is the way to go.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Insider

Are you eventually going to test the PROcede? I think that would be interesting to see the difference, especially V2.

Based on the current results out there, with good running Procedes trapping at 108-109mph, I wouldn't switch. But if the new V2 really has about 40 more HP, and traps at over 112mph, (On 91 octane), it will probably be faster than the new M3. That I would definitely be interested in. As long as there are no issues with CEL, drivability, etc. Last night, coming back from the races, a Blue STI was next to me. He had a louder exhaust. And and some kind of a speed freaks license plate or something. He had the jump, and although I was at a total disadvantage, I still reeled him in. The 2nd and 3rd times, I made sure I did the honking, I can't tell you how happy I was to have the stg 2 installed in my car. He gave up and wouldn't even go for a 4th run. Real world benefits, LOL.

[BMWalpine]

How does one go about getting this Juicebox?

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by BMWalpine

How does one go about getting this Juicebox?

He has an email link at the bottom of his website. He answered my email within an hour after I sent it..
I was actually very impressed with his helpfulness and personal assistance. Went totally out of his way so I could have the install completed this weekend.

http://www.bmwjuice.com/

[purplewidow]

juicebox will bust!!!!! you will all see once more people buy these POS" cars blowing up...well not necessarily but definitely having issues!!!!! nice garage work though terry!!!!! i know a lot of awesome companies came from there garage...but who the hell would buy this over a turno tuner or a procede has got to be cheap...this product has no where near the R&D the procede or xede or TT has!!!! not even close!!!!!!!!!! and once he gets it to work that's it he sells em like in v1.0 then v2.0 came out and looks like the same POS with problems cause of not enough R&D and people who know what they are doing...well i love the idea of a hobby that makes money i hate people that would do it at a risk to one of europes finest automobiles!!!!! and wooptidoo i beat my buddies sti all the time and my car is stock!!!!! i don't need a juicebox to kill japcrap that isn't supped up!!!!! oh wow he had a louder exhaust maybe if you knew about cars and how they operate it would be another story....hell terry even got booted from this forum a couple times!!!! i just ope people don't fall for this crap...if you are a cheap SOB then get a tt otherwise procede and the AA xede are the only ways to go for now!!!!

[Lee Rambler]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Based on the current results out there, with good running Procedes trapping at 108-109mph, I wouldn't switch. But if the new V2 really has about 40 more HP, and traps at over 112mph, (On 91 octane), it will probably be faster than the new M3. That I would definitely be interested in. As long as there are no issues with CEL, drivability, etc. Last night, coming back from the races, a Blue STI was next to me. He had a louder exhaust. And and some kind of a speed freaks license plate or something. He had the jump, and although I was at a total disadvantage, I still reeled him in. The 2nd and 3rd times, I made sure I did the honking, I can't tell you how happy I was to have the stg 2 installed in my car. He gave up and wouldn't even go for a 4th run. Real world benefits, LOL.

+1, seems traps are fairly similar with the procede, jb, tt, and aa xede. I could care less about what the dyno says, the trap tells it all in the real world. I will also switch to procede v2 if I see 111-112+ traps on a regular basis, and the limp mode problem is cleared up. The 3-4 mph advantage would be real and usable.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by Lee Rambler

+1, seems traps are fairly similar with the procede, jb, tt, and aa xede. I could care less about what the dyno says, the trap tells it all in the real world. I will also switch to procede v2 if I see 111-112+ traps on a regular basis, and the limp mode problem is cleared up. The 3-4 mph advantage would be real and usable.

even on the dyno, they are very close in horsepower... procede/xede wins the torque category, but all the products seem to be within 15-20hp or so once you get up above 4k rpms. thats close enough for things like weather, weight, gas, etc to make a big difference on the strip

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by purplewidow

juicebox will bust!!!!! you will all see once more people buy these POS" cars blowing up...well not necessarily but definitely having issues!!!!! nice garage work though terry!!!!! i know a lot of awesome companies came from there garage...but who the hell would buy this over a turno tuner or a procede has got to be cheap...this product has no where near the R&D the procede or xede or TT has!!!! not even close!!!!!!!!!! and once he gets it to work that's it he sells em like in v1.0 then v2.0 came out and looks like the same POS with problems cause of not enough R&D and people who know what they are doing...well i love the idea of a hobby that makes money i hate people that would do it at a risk to one of europes finest automobiles!!!!! and wooptidoo i beat my buddies sti all the time and my car is stock!!!!! i don't need a juicebox to kill japcrap that isn't supped up!!!!! oh wow he had a louder exhaust maybe if you knew about cars and how they operate it would be another story....hell terry even got booted from this forum a couple times!!!! i just ope people don't fall for this crap...if you are a cheap SOB then get a tt otherwise procede and the AA xede are the only ways to go for now!!!!

Well considering the STI was going to the races, and had exhaust, there is a good chance it wasn't stock. But perhaps you would know better than I? Perhaps your friend doesn't know how to launch his STI, and you are a pro-driver? And what makes you think I know less about the way cars operate than you do? At least I have built, raced and tuned the engine in my GN. I work on cars enough to have a lift in my garage. And maybe if you studied the graphs, and understood what parameters are controlled, you could make more educated comments than the ones you just made.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

even on the dyno, they are very close in horsepower... procede/xede wins the torque category, but all the products seem to be within 15-20hp or so once you get up above 4k rpms. thats close enough for things like weather, weight, gas, etc to make a big difference on the strip

If tested on the same day, on the same car, on the same gas, there seems to be a pretty big difference between the PROcede v1 and the other options (SSTT and JB stg 2).

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...84&postcount=1

Shiv

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

If tested on the same day, on the same car, on the same gas, there seems to be a pretty big difference between the PROcede v1 and the other options (SSTT and JB stg 2).

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...84&postcount=1

Shiv

ya, procede has 20ish horsepower more than the lowest tune (TT), but like i said, that is small enough to make other variables have more of a chance at evening things up on the track....

maybe I am crazy... but 20 horsepower doesnt seem like a whole lot to me, but i am not into racing, where I am sure 20hp is the difference between win or lose

dont confuse this with me endorsing the juicebox or TT over the procede... because I dont. I am just saying that until v2 is out, and shows a 60bhp gain over the other tuners, then they are all kinda close... IMHO

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

ya, procede has 20ish horsepower more than the lowest tune (TT), but like i said, that is small enough to make other variables have more of a chance at evening things up on the track....

maybe I am crazy... but 20 horsepower doesnt seem like a whole lot to me, but i am not into racing, where I am sure 20hp is the difference between win or lose

It's 25whp and 28whp over the JB stg 2 and SSTT respectively. That means it offered twice the power gains than those boost controllers. Sounds significant to me.

shiv