[PowerCorrupts]

Anyone had their ATF changed by a BMW garage?

I phoned up the other day when booking in for an oil service and the guy said it would cost around £150 extra for the ATF change.


Got a bit bored on my lunch and googled it, and seems like some American owners are getting quoted at around 4-600$ - which to me works out at almost double what I was qouted?



Any recommendations are appreciated - is it worth me just getting an indy to do it & any recommendations of one around Cambridge area?

[tmarshall57]

Check to see which auto box you have (ZF 19 or 26) and consider buying a service kit which includes sump, filter, mechatronic sleeve and oil and getting an indy to do the job for you.

See

http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/e...000basic.html#

[mistryn]

I was once quoted £250 circa just for the oil from BMW for my box

[AnthonyR]

We are in the process of getting the service kit inc oil from a zf dealer n the uk, they quoted about £190 for it and £150 for labour. I believe they are based in the uxbridge area, but go to the zf website and you can get info on other suppliers in the uk

[old grey steve]

The big issue is the cost of the fluid, if you're just changing the fluid by draining and re filling you'll not get about 6 or so litres out and sometimes a tad more.

The fluid BMW supplies isn't cheap retail wise it works out to supply a 20 litre tub at £390 +VAT (£19.51 per litre) the fluids not Esso LT71141, which you can use on the older BM's and is more freely available, but you've got to be careful very careful with what fluid goes into these boxes and we've opted to stick with the genuine stuff for one reason, it'll not cause use any issues. We've looked at getting fluid from ZF and the network but in bulk you seem to hit a brick wall so for now we stick to getting supplies(which we can get off the shelf and at a decent rate now) until perhaps in bulk we find somewhere ZF supply wise that'll be accommodating.

We've done she'd loads of fluid changes and some of the stuff that comes out truly makes you wonder why "the word lifetime was ever used with the same sentence as transmission fluid" Mercedes for instance the fluid change is part of the service schedule (comes up every 40k or so) and this has to be the best way to keep the gearbox working. The other thing worth doing is looking at software updates which can make a difference and along with a fluid change it can only be good for the car.

If re a fluid change you go the whole hog and you chose to drop the sump(it's a plastic sump on these cars with an integral filter) then cost wise the sumps around £160+VAT it makes with labour a £450 bill including VAT likely.

Cambridge, Power Corrupts, to where I work in Hertfordshire is about an hours drive if that if it helps

[PowerCorrupts]

Cheers for the replies guys!

I think I might have to call up Elms BMW and get them to clarify how much its going to cost & if they're going to drop the sump etc..

the £150 they qouted seems really cheap based on the above, don't know if it was just a half hearted guess to get me through the door, then have me bent over the desk once the works done!

[tmarshall57]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

The big issue is the cost of the fluid, if you're just changing the fluid by draining and re filling you'll not get about 6 or so litres out and sometimes a tad more.

The fluid BMW supplies isn't cheap retail wise it works out to supply a 20 litre tub at £390 +VAT (£19.51 per litre) the fluids not Esso LT71141, which you can use on the older BM's and is more freely available, but you've got to be careful very careful with what fluid goes into these boxes and we've opted to stick with the genuine stuff for one reason, it'll not cause use any issues. We've looked at getting fluid from ZF and the network but in bulk you seem to hit a brick wall so for now we stick to getting supplies(which we can get off the shelf and at a decent rate now) until perhaps in bulk we find somewhere ZF supply wise that'll be accommodating.

We've done she'd loads of fluid changes and some of the stuff that comes out truly makes you wonder why "the word lifetime was ever used with the same sentence as transmission fluid" Mercedes for instance the fluid change is part of the service schedule (comes up every 40k or so) and this has to be the best way to keep the gearbox working. The other thing worth doing is looking at software updates which can make a difference and along with a fluid change it can only be good for the car.

If re a fluid change you go the whole hog and you chose to drop the sump(it's a plastic sump on these cars with an integral filter) then cost wise the sumps around £160+VAT it makes with labour a £450 bill including VAT likely.

Cambridge, Power Corrupts, to where I work in Hertfordshire is about an hours drive if that if it helps

The link I posted above includes oem quality (Meyle) sump, 7 litres of BMW certified oil, ZF mech sleeve, VAT and delivery for £163. Add a couple of hours labour (£80.00?) and why would you want to consider any alternative.

I cannot see a BMW dealer doing this work for less than £600

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by tmarshall57

The link I posted above includes oem quality (Meyle) sump, 7 litres of BMW certified oil, ZF mech sleeve, VAT and delivery for £163. Add a couple of hours labour (£80.00?) and why would you want to consider any alternative.

I cannot see a BMW dealer doing this work for less than £600

the thing for us as an Indy is having everything available off the shelf so to speak ready to go. I've found a place that'll for BMW's supply a metal sump as apprised to a plastic sump, which is a good move IMO, the fluids the sore point always has been and we've known there's healer alternatives safety is a concern for us as we've seen a few cars come in with gearbox issues after being elsewhere only to find they've had transmission fluid done elsewhere that's not correct for the box type.

Gearbox fluid changes on these cars isn't commonly done as we know, but the link you've supplied tmarshall is excellent and its good for me as im looking to do mine soon and your estimate for BMW doing the job is to me right on the money, but ask yourself a question, if its sealed for life in BMW speak how comes I can obtain fluid and a sump for a BMW Dealer from BMW within a few hours?

[Dan-danGT]

Guys I just enquired about this with stratstones bmw derby. It was indeed £250 for the oil and about £130 for the plastic sump! Well I did a little digging and found on the zf website it advises an oil change, it's bmw that made it 'lifetime' oil why I will never know!

Any way I have a friend who works at zf Nottingham I sent him my gearbox serial number and he got back to me with a price for all genuine parts. He was concerned as there is two types of oil for the gearbox. He found it is an anti static oil and the sump is plastic. Well he pulled through and sorted me the bits for a fraction of the price above.

My car is a 330d 08 plate. Done 83k well it cost me £60 for a sump and the oil was free so I did the service myself and i still have oil left to do another service at some point!

[tmarshall57]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

the link you've supplied tmarshall is excellent and its good for me as im looking to do mine soon and your estimate for BMW doing the job is to me right on the money, but ask yourself a question, if its sealed for life in BMW speak how comes I can obtain fluid and a sump for a BMW Dealer from BMW within a few hours?

This is all about the definition of "Lifetime" and I think that I am right in that BMW have revised their definition. ZF's view is certainly that lifetime does not mean lifetime.

See http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en/...nging_kit.html

which contains the following advice:

"Only a regular oil change will guarantee the outstanding shift comfort and performance of ZF automatic transmissions.
Lifetime oil filling may well ensure the transmission continues to operate but the oil will age through heavy usage, temperature changes, and chemical processes. The specifically matched oils, ZF-LifeguardFluid, will help to minimize wear on heavily loaded components in ZF automatic passenger car transmissions and restore shift comfort.
Regular maintenance intervals will substantially increase the automatic transmission's service life and, precisely for that reason, ZF recommends a regular oil change every 80 000 km."

I am not one of these oil thread freaks who believe that modern synthetic oil should be changed every few weeks but equally I find it hard to believe BMW's initial definition of lifetime meaning forever.

[mistryn]

Originally Posted by Dan-danGT

Guys I just enquired about this with stratstones bmw derby. It was indeed £250 for the oil and about £130 for the plastic sump! Well I did a little digging and found on the zf website it advises an oil change, it's bmw that made it 'lifetime' oil why I will never know!

Any way I have a friend who works at zf Nottingham I sent him my gearbox serial number and he got back to me with a price for all genuine parts. He was concerned as there is two types of oil for the gearbox. He found it is an anti static oil and the sump is plastic. Well he pulled through and sorted me the bits for a fraction of the price above.

My car is a 330d 08 plate. Done 83k well it cost me £60 for a sump and the oil was free so I did the service myself and i still have oil left to do another service at some point!

Dan - would you mind asking your friend what kit I need if I give you the serial number for my box please? (how do I find the serial number?)

[PowerCorrupts]

Originally Posted by mistryn

Dan - would you mind asking your friend what kit I need if I give you the serial number for my box please? (how do I find the serial number?)

And me please :P

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by tmarshall57

This is all about the definition of "Lifetime" and I think that I am right in that BMW have revised their definition. ZF's view is certainly that lifetime does not mean lifetime.

See http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en/...nging_kit.html

which contains the following advice:

"Only a regular oil change will guarantee the outstanding shift comfort and performance of ZF automatic transmissions.
Lifetime oil filling may well ensure the transmission continues to operate but the oil will age through heavy usage, temperature changes, and chemical processes. The specifically matched oils, ZF-LifeguardFluid, will help to minimize wear on heavily loaded components in ZF automatic passenger car transmissions and restore shift comfort.
Regular maintenance intervals will substantially increase the automatic transmission's service life and, precisely for that reason, ZF recommends a regular oil change every 80 000 km."

I am not one of these oil thread freaks who believe that modern synthetic oil should be changed every few weeks but equally I find it hard to believe BMW's initial definition of lifetime meaning forever.

Well I ordered my kit from http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/e...000basic.html# on Sunday evening thanks tmarshallit arrived 10am Tuesday morning(good communication from the company too with emails/phone-calls re delivery address)

Changed the sump/fluid today early days but so far shifts up the box to my mind seem smoother in D and switching over to DS less jerky from gear to gear using the paddles in M mode again seems better and having re set the consumption computer early days I know but economy wise there's an improvement as well..

Oil by the way that cam ourt was about 6 litres(quite dirty and smelly) took just over 6 litres to re fill. For £163 all in this kits too good an opportunity to ignore.

[tmarshall57]

Thanks OldGreySteve - haven't ordered mine yet but have used Incarmotorfactors before for quality (OEM Spec) coolant and diff fluid. I will order the kit next week and I have it booked into Darren Woods on 3rd August for the AT Fluid change.

By the way - did you change the mechatronic sleeve which I believe is provided as part of the kit? Or is this best left alone if not leaking?

[mistryn]

I have just had a reply from incar and they say there are 2 available - ZF genuine kit or meyle kit

http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/e...26-28osk0.html

or

http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/e...0000basic.html

There is quite a big price difference between them, from my research the oil for my gearbox has to be anti static and specific so not sure which one to go for

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by tmarshall57

Thanks OldGreySteve - haven't ordered mine yet but have used Incarmotorfactors before for quality (OEM Spec) coolant and diff fluid. I will order the kit next week and I have it booked into Darren Woods on 3rd August for the AT Fluid change.

By the way - did you change the mechatronic sleeve which I believe is provided as part of the kit? Or is this best left alone if not leaking?

Yep I did change the mechatronic sleeve which was a wise thing to do as mine was showing early signs of 7 odd years of work.. All in as we were quiet at work on Thursday(bloody rare)it took around 2 hours from start to finish to complete taking our time one guy in the air making sure that when requested forward and reverse gears were selected and one guy underneath gently filling the until the fluid started to flow back out and coat the technicians forearm

[tmarshall57]

Originally Posted by mistryn

I have just had a reply from incar and they say there are 2 available - ZF genuine kit or meyle kit

http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/e...26-28osk0.html

or

http://www.incarmotorfactors.co.uk/e...0000basic.html

There is quite a big price difference between them, from my research the oil for my gearbox has to be anti static and specific so not sure which one to go for

You should be OK with the Meyle kit. This kit is also described on ebay here and does indicate that the kit contains special non-conductive fluid. Meyle manufacture a lot of OEM quality parts to fit BMW and similar vehicles.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E90-E9...-/171000216645

[mistryn]

Thank you i will go for the kit in next few weeks

[mistryn]

Why is it thr sump has to be replaced? Cant the old sump be re used?

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by mistryn

Why is it thr sump has to be replaced? Cant the old sump be re used?

You can use the old sump of course by purely doing a drain and refill with supplied fluid, the sump however has the all important filter integrated into its casing meaning that the all that new fluid will be going through an already contaminated filter plus with these plastic sumps(and we've seen a good few)they with age start to sweat fluid and cost the underside of the sump and covers with fluid plus you can't change the sleeve.

[mistryn]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

You can use the old sump of course by purely doing a drain and refill with supplied fluid, the sump however has the all important filter integrated into its casing meaning that the all that new fluid will be going through an already contaminated filter plus with these plastic sumps(and we've seen a good few)they with age start to sweat fluid and cost the underside of the sump and covers with fluid plus you can't change the sleeve.

Thanks Steve, I am just trying to find out if there are any difference between the ZF kit and meyle kit apart from price

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by mistryn

Thanks Steve, I am just trying to find out if there are any difference between the ZF kit and meyle kit apart from price

Honestly, for the money the Meyle kit on value is very reasonable, just remember to ensure that you select the right gearbox type but. Meyle produce a lot of OEM parts for BMW logic kind of says that your in safe hands the ZF stuff of course is supplied by the manufacturers of the gearbox itself but its all down to if there are more than one, options.

Post fluid change today I took the car for a decent drive, from cold the car pulled away without any drama up shifts were quicker, smoother than previous from say a roundabout or junction initial throttle hesitation or stickiness that I used to have on initial throttle application seem to of gone(though I will keep my eye on this one) but so far everything re results regarding changing the fluid has been very positive.

All I can say to sum up is that if our cars an Auto, done near enough 70k and you want to ensure that mechanically everything is in order then one of the best preventive things you can do is change the fluid and at £163 it's bloody reasonable too