[DreiD]

aka...what have I done?

2010 335d with 58k and CPO...just picked it up a few weeks ago.

The SES light has come on twice and gone out after a few restarts. I dropped it off today and got a call with "news". They were still able to pull the related codes. One for DEF fluid crystallization and the other...carbon buildup, of course. The car runs great...mileage is as expected and even banged out 38 mpg on a trip so I wasn't expecting carbon buildup but the car has CPO coverage so I should be ok...

Since it's CPO the SA says that unless a part is found that falls under CPO warranty is broken all costs are mine and that this issue should be described as a maintenance item. Even if an issue is found that is covered items such as intake manifold gaskets are not. Huh?!?!

For some reason I was under the impression that this issue was covered under CPO since it is discovered by degraded engine performance and/or SES light. We aren't talking about oil change needed...this condition creates diagnostic codes.

Has anyone successfully fought this fight and won?

[GreekboyD]

I had carbon build up and the dealer replaced my air intake manifold without me having to pay a cent. This was under my extended third party warranty.

[DreiD]

Who is your 3rd party warranty provided by?

[GreekboyD]

Originally Posted by DreiD

Who is your 3rd party warranty provided by?

CoverageOne.

[Got_Diesel]

fight it. talk to the service manager, talk to BMW of NA. That's such bullshit.

[135i_vs_]

If its BMW CPO purchased at a BMW dealership, this issue is 100% covered. As far as aftermarket warranty goes, it's a hit or miss.

[F32Fleet]

I don't think it's covered on its own. If you had a failed injector(s) or DDE then the carbon cleaning could be covered. I don't think it's covered on other DI engines either.

CPO warranty is very limited actually.

[Timujin]

Makes me sick to my stomach. Good luck.

[AzureHaze]

Originally Posted by Timujin

Makes me sick to my stomach. Good luck.

Tell me about it. Always a downer to hear this kind of stuff about our diesel rockets.

These POS stealerships never cease to amaze me though...

Fight it OP because it's complete BS that you're already expected to pay for repairs only after a few weeks of ownership. If the stealership stands firm on their decision, contact BMWNA immediately.

[Hoooper]

there is no code for carbon buildup, only codes related to problems caused by carbon buildup. From all the other threads it seems like you can get things covered under the warranty if its carbon caused, but not carbon alone, such as injectors, DDE, underboost, rough running, etc. if they continually fight you, just bring it to another dealer. Sooner or later you will find one that wants the work.

ask the SA to show you in the owners manual where it has the service/maintenance interval for carbon buildup.

[joe_planet]

That is absolute BS. Who gives a crap what the cause is? The car is throwing CELs and needs to be fixed. Period. Call BMW NA and complain. You paid more money for a CPO car, now they dont want to fix it.. what a bunch of crooks.

[DreiD]

Tech now thinks codes are related only to DEF fluid crystallization. ...but I'm at the right mileage for carbon buildup issues. The SA is just toting the company line...he understands my position and is going to talk with the service manager about this case. I'll wait for that response and see what happens. So far the quote is around $2200. Yeah...don't think so.

[Hoooper]

CELs alone dont constitute a warranty repair. If you forgot to change the oil for the first 46k miles and 3.5 years and you had engine failure, it wouldnt be covered because of lack of maintenance. They are calling carbon cleaning a maintenance item so if you are having issues stemming from lack of maintenance they are "being nice" by covering it.

IMO I think they are "helping" people out covering carbon issues because they know if they take a hard stance someone might take a class action lawsuit against them since carbon cleaning maintenance/intervals dont exist in any of their consumer literature and as far as I know it isnt an industry standard maintenance item on diesel engines, not to mention that the level of buildup that some are experiencing is in no way normal, average, etc for any modern diesel engine that I can find.

[DreiD]

I get that CEL doesn't grant warranty work...but this seems to be a function or poor design and like you say, isn't listed anywhere as a maintenance item. Actually BMW recommends using no additive that may help prevent this situation and when you get an issue related to buildup they may not even cover a part that would be covered under a "normal" failure mode.

[DreiD]

Talking to BMW NA is worthless so far. The rep can't tell me why any of this doesn't fall under the CPO coverage. The dealer determines that. The dealer told me it was BMW NA that would specifically deny the coverage. Circle Jerk?

When I asked if I could talk to someone who can tell a dealer what they can and can't cover under the CPO the rep doesn't have access to that person. hmmmmmmmmm.

[sohcpunk]

The dealer will normally do anything to get things done under warranty as BMW pays them to do the repair. The problem most likely is at BMW Corporate.

[DreiD]

Well...my complaint is logged at NA. Maybe someone in the future can thank me for potentially influencing an engineer to combat this issue, maybe.

BMW NA is obviously well aware of this issue...and obviously refuse to reimburse the dealer for work related to carbon buildup. If you are CPO you are SOL in their eyes. The rep didn't want to talk with me anymore after I indicated it might not be a good idea to have a BMW after the factory warranty expires.

Boy are my eyes opened.

I guess I have a couple of options:
Hope that the Service Manager feels sorry for me and cuts me a deal.
or
Drive her until something malfunctions.

BMW NA is not going to help at this point.

As stated before...the car seems to perform fine so I might just go pick it up and go home and deal with SES lights until something feels wrong.

[Hoooper]

additives wouldnt do anything to help this issue

take your car to a different dealer, there have been many on here who had a bad first experience with a dealer and then tried a different dealer and received good service. In the end, if the dealer has space for the work and believes they can get it covered under warranty they will do that since they get paid for it, but if they are full of other services they try to not cover it. Im sure other things go into that as well, such as good/bad service adviser, clientele, etc.

[GreekboyD]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

additives wouldnt do anything to help this issue

take your car to a different dealer, there have been many on here who had a bad first experience with a dealer and then tried a different dealer and received good service. In the end, if the dealer has space for the work and believes they can get it covered under warranty they will do that since they get paid for it, but if they are full of other services they try to not cover it. Im sure other things go into that as well, such as good/bad service adviser, clientele, etc.

Best advice. This is exactly what I'd be doing.

[DreiD]

That's probably what I'll do.

There is also an indie shop local that can probably clean the carbon build up for about 1/3rd of what the dealer quoted. So, at least there are options.

I know most, if not all, additives are useless...but if this is a maintenance item you'd think there be some sort of recommended maintenance. The BMW NA rep tried to compare carbon build up issues to coolant service. I almost lost it at that point.

[MilehighM3]

CPO covers carbon cleaning on the N54 engine after the tech submits a puma case. If there are no codes relating to carbon buildup, the dealer is recommending it as a preventative maintenance item. Which is why the coverage doesn't apply would be my guess. Once you have codes that require carbon cleaning, you may have a different outcome in terms of coverage.

[DreiD]

From my limited research I've come to the conclusion that meth injection may be the best way to perform carbon buildup "maintenance" since the valves in a DI engine aren't washed by anything unlike direct port injection. JBD + Snow =

I'm probably going to get an oil catch can no matter what...but the combo may be the key to a long living and happy engine.

I've also seen that GM and Ford seem to have a leg up in DI tech...EGR and crankcase venting had to be re-engineered...hmmm, wow.

Thoughts?