Any truth to this statement?

L8Apex · 10-02-2007, 11:48 PM

54 voided 335i Warranties, ECU remapping, MODS thru 11/06

“Taken from a BMW dealership employee...

Quote »
I just had a conversation with the BMW Field Engineer assigned to my dealership regarding 335s. It's been known for a long time that when a technician connects diagnostic equipment to a vehicle, a report is generated that contains the 'vehicle order' and each night all of the day's reports are transmitted to BMW. The vehicle order is contains all of the information about vehicle control units including their hardware version and all of the binary coding for them.
BMW has developed a tool that compares the vehicle order of each 335 to the known vehicle order at time of manufacture. Any deviations in the binary coding of the DME automatically alert engineers that the code requires further inspection. If the code related to boost has been altered to create a high-boost scenario, the engine warranty is immediately terminated.
To date, they have terminated 54 warranties.
"OMG, I BLEW A TURBO AND BMW IS CHARGING ME $10,000 BECAUSE THEY DENIED MY WARRANTY! Arggg!"
MORE IMPORTANTLY IS THIS POST: A good rule of thumb is if you are leasing a car...don't mod it. The car doesn't belong to you. If you void the warranty, then you are in breach of your lease contract, which is then terminated. "It's a violation of the lease agreement and I think they force you to buy it at lease end (rather than accept it back)." http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/bmw...8227284-1.html

scooby9 · 10-03-2007, 12:11 AM

Isn't this only for re-mapped ECUs? I think for piggyback solutions, this should not be an issue as the ECU never sees the increase in boost pressure.

Kbueno · 10-03-2007, 12:14 AM

Sounds like re-flashing. But I call

Jonmartin · 10-03-2007, 12:21 AM

in order for them to see the change the ECU would have to be Re-flashed and they can't just void your warranty without it even having a problem.

Tonester · 10-03-2007, 12:47 AM

When the DME is flashed the VO is changed, so BMW FSE's and BMW NA/PUMA can see that information. Your local BMW will not be able to see that kind of information, but if something major does happen they have to go to PUMA then you're SOL.

I would recommend the PROcede since it is a plug-and-play and removable when you have visits to the dealership.

judec · 10-03-2007, 08:13 AM

well, thinking about it - maybe they can't void your varranty immediately w/o a failure, but they can blacklist U. Even lets say 2 years later while repairing after accidental failure on turbos or engine or whatever they can void your varranty based on the data they gathered when they blacklisted U, not to mention they can make such a blacklist accessible to any dealer anytime.

This is just a speculation, dont flame me.

HyperM3 · 10-03-2007, 08:23 AM

A dealer cant see any parameters above and beyond stock specifications in the DME when a piggyback is hooked up. This was confirmed by one of my dealerships who knew I was PROceeded. I figured there was no harm in asking them to check since they already knew I had it in there. They said nothing showed in their scan that was above normal conditions. So that reaffirmed that nothing gets stored on the DME from the PROceed.

That being said, a flash program that gets stored right on the DME will most assuredly store all conditions that the car sees. Plus if the dealer reflashes your DME back to stock, you just lost your programming and have to pay for it all over again. Sucks to be you.

remydlc · 10-03-2007, 08:52 AM

That's why I chose PROcede over the other, it is "suppose" to trick the ECU. Gotta love it.

1clean335i · 10-03-2007, 08:54 AM

Do you guys know how many tech's drive 335's themselves?

remydlc · 10-03-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperM3

A dealer cant see any parameters above and beyond stock specifications in the DME when a piggyback is hooked up. This was confirmed by one of my dealerships who knew I was PROceeded. I figured there was no harm in asking them to check since they already knew I had it in there. They said nothing showed in their scan that was above normal conditions. So that reaffirmed that nothing gets stored on the DME from the PROceed.

That being said, a flash program that gets stored right on the DME will most assuredly store all conditions that the car sees. Plus if the dealer reflashes your DME back to stock, you just lost your programming and have to pay for it all over again. Sucks to be you.

Wonder what others piggyback will show in this scan. Have anyone tried it?

turbocoins · 10-03-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1clean335i

Do you guys know how many tech's drive 335's themselves?

+1 Well stated, by my tech.

leftcoastman · 10-03-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1clean335i

Do you guys know how many tech's drive 335's themselves?

Does that imply that they know a lot about 335i tuning and will easily find and bust you or that they are sympathetic to people who tune their 335i?

turbocoins · 10-03-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Does that imply that they know a lot about 335i tuning and will easily find and bust you or that they are sympathetic to people who tune their 335i?

I would hope the latter.

533ogetnom · 10-03-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbocoins

I would hope the latter.

pfft 1clean turned yo(lol) ass in years ago

e90AW335i · 10-03-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonester

I would recommend the PROcede since it is a plug-and-play and removable when you have visits to the dealership.

JB2, Xede, and TT are all removable as well......

turbocoins · 10-03-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

pfft 1clean turned yo(lol) ass in years ago

Maestro · 10-03-2007, 11:50 AM

Look guys what they are doing is a check sum verification. This is done on and Flash/ROM device to verify the code that was load has not changed or got corrupted. So if you change the actual program that sits in the ECU they will know.

We all know that many car will record and store information about various parameters that are monitored during normal operations. These are FIFO systems meaning first in first out so it stores information for a period of time then purges it for newer information. The only questions is how big this storage is before they begin to purge the information.

So if normal operation of the boost is 8 to 10 Psi and now your at 12 to 15 this information is probably stored and they can see it when then hook a computer up, however, if your drive for a few days and never get on it and hit the higher boost levels then most likely the higher boost levels would get purges.

One more point, depending on the system they may record and store max and min values and never clear them unless an new max and min show up. So if BMW is doing this, they will see the higher boost numbers that were hit. Many times only way to clear these is to pull the power for a period of time and the memory get wiped.

Lastly, be warn most all car companies are looking to put in Blackboxes into cars with a small hard drive which will record everything the car has see and done.

judec · 10-03-2007, 01:25 PM

Is this another speculation or U know some facts? Cuz I know about those possibilities but haven't heard about it implemented in bimmer or other car.

On the other hand do the piggies alter the boost signal, too, dont they? So the ECU can't see the boost is 15psi, right?

Pele96 · 10-03-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L8Apex

54 voided 335i Warranties, ECU remapping, MODS thru 11/06

“Taken from a BMW dealership employee...

Quote »
I just had a conversation with the BMW Field Engineer assigned to my dealership regarding 335s. It's been known for a long time that when a technician connects diagnostic equipment to a vehicle, a report is generated that contains the 'vehicle order' and each night all of the day's reports are transmitted to BMW. The vehicle order is contains all of the information about vehicle control units including their hardware version and all of the binary coding for them.
BMW has developed a tool that compares the vehicle order of each 335 to the known vehicle order at time of manufacture. Any deviations in the binary coding of the DME automatically alert engineers that the code requires further inspection. If the code related to boost has been altered to create a high-boost scenario, the engine warranty is immediately terminated.
To date, they have terminated 54 warranties.
"OMG, I BLEW A TURBO AND BMW IS CHARGING ME $10,000 BECAUSE THEY DENIED MY WARRANTY! Arggg!"
MORE IMPORTANTLY IS THIS POST: A good rule of thumb is if you are leasing a car...don't mod it. The car doesn't belong to you. If you void the warranty, then you are in breach of your lease contract, which is then terminated. "It's a violation of the lease agreement and I think they force you to buy it at lease end (rather than accept it back)." http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/bmw...8227284-1.html

They cannot just void your warranty. They have to prove that the modification caused damage to the car without a doubt. There is a thread that someone posted the law that stats that.

judec · 10-03-2007, 02:10 PM

Lemme argue a lil - they can void your warranty whenever they wish. The only reason they need to be damn sure about it is they will have to prove it when U sue them, not sooner.

turbotko · 10-03-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonester

When the DME is flashed the VO is changed, so BMW FSE's and BMW NA/PUMA can see that information. Your local BMW will not be able to see that kind of information, but if something major does happen they have to go to PUMA then you're SOL.

I would recommend the PROcede since it is a plug-and-play and removable when you have visits to the dealership.

Sorry dude, but DME flashing does not change the VO. The VO is only changed from the factory order if there has been an accessory retrofitted or the battery changed to a different Ah rating. The VO basically contains information on the equipment on the car and has nothing to do with the software in the control units.

Having said that and being a 335 owner and Master Tech myself, I know of a few guys running Procede (hint hint) and the diagnostic equipement has no idea the procede is on there. I've checked from every angle available in the diag equipment and found nothing.

RedGT3 · 10-03-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotko

Sorry dude, but DME flashing does not change the VO. The VO is only changed from the factory order if there has been an accessory retrofitted or the battery changed to a different Ah rating. The VO basically contains information on the equipment on the car and has nothing to do with the software in the control units.

Having said that and being a 335 owner and Master Tech myself, I know of a few guys running Procede (hint hint) and the diagnostic equipement has no idea the procede is on there. I've checked from every angle available in the diag equipment and found nothing.

Good info, Thanks

10-02-2007, 11:48 PM	#1
L8Apex Private First Class 24 Rep 168 Posts Drives: 997 turbo Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Any truth to this statement? 54 voided 335i Warranties, ECU remapping, MODS thru 11/06 “Taken from a BMW dealership employee... Quote » I just had a conversation with the BMW Field Engineer assigned to my dealership regarding 335s. It's been known for a long time that when a technician connects diagnostic equipment to a vehicle, a report is generated that contains the 'vehicle order' and each night all of the day's reports are transmitted to BMW. The vehicle order is contains all of the information about vehicle control units including their hardware version and all of the binary coding for them. BMW has developed a tool that compares the vehicle order of each 335 to the known vehicle order at time of manufacture. Any deviations in the binary coding of the DME automatically alert engineers that the code requires further inspection. If the code related to boost has been altered to create a high-boost scenario, the engine warranty is immediately terminated. To date, they have terminated 54 warranties. "OMG, I BLEW A TURBO AND BMW IS CHARGING ME $10,000 BECAUSE THEY DENIED MY WARRANTY! Arggg!" MORE IMPORTANTLY IS THIS POST: A good rule of thumb is if you are leasing a car...don't mod it. The car doesn't belong to you. If you void the warranty, then you are in breach of your lease contract, which is then terminated. "It's a violation of the lease agreement and I think they force you to buy it at lease end (rather than accept it back)." http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/bmw...8227284-1.html
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10-03-2007, 12:11 AM	#2
scooby9 Major 62 Rep 1,120 Posts Drives: 2007 E90 BMW 335xi Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada iTrader: (6)	Isn't this only for re-mapped ECUs? I think for piggyback solutions, this should not be an issue as the ECU never sees the increase in boost pressure. __________________ *2007 BMW 335xi 6MT TiAg*
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10-03-2007, 12:14 AM	#3
Kbueno Lieutenant Colonel 100 Rep 1,712 Posts Drives: F82 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California iTrader: (5)	Sounds like re-flashing. But I call
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10-03-2007, 12:21 AM	#4
Jonmartin Banned 123 Rep 2,097 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angles (818) iTrader: (1)	in order for them to see the change the ECU would have to be Re-flashed and they can't just void your warranty without it even having a problem.
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10-03-2007, 12:47 AM	#5
Tonester Banned 27 Rep 178 Posts Drives: LSB M3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: So Cali iTrader: (0)	When the DME is flashed the VO is changed, so BMW FSE's and BMW NA/PUMA can see that information. Your local BMW will not be able to see that kind of information, but if something major does happen they have to go to PUMA then you're SOL. I would recommend the PROcede since it is a plug-and-play and removable when you have visits to the dealership.
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10-03-2007, 08:13 AM	#6
judec born to be turbocharged 24 Rep 1,347 Posts Drives: Not a bimmer yet Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slovakia iTrader: (0)	well, thinking about it - maybe they can't void your varranty immediately w/o a failure, but they can blacklist U. Even lets say 2 years later while repairing after accidental failure on turbos or engine or whatever they can void your varranty based on the data they gathered when they blacklisted U, not to mention they can make such a blacklist accessible to any dealer anytime. This is just a speculation, dont flame me. __________________ Disclaimer: All this message was written with recycled electrons.
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10-03-2007, 08:23 AM	#7
HyperM3 Too many Alex's, from now on, call me Beaufort 347 Rep 6,188 Posts Drives: See Sig Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lawrenceville, NJ iTrader: (8)	A dealer cant see any parameters above and beyond stock specifications in the DME when a piggyback is hooked up. This was confirmed by one of my dealerships who knew I was PROceeded. I figured there was no harm in asking them to check since they already knew I had it in there. They said nothing showed in their scan that was above normal conditions. So that reaffirmed that nothing gets stored on the DME from the PROceed. That being said, a flash program that gets stored right on the DME will most assuredly store all conditions that the car sees. Plus if the dealer reflashes your DME back to stock, you just lost your programming and have to pay for it all over again. Sucks to be you. __________________ 13 HD FatBob 17 A4 Glacier/Black 1st Edition/Pre+/Sport/EurocodeTMD/Racechip 16 S6 (gone),14 S6 (gone),14 S6 (gone),13 S6 (gone),10 S4 (gone) 07 335i(gone)
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10-03-2007, 08:52 AM	#8
remydlc Captain 23 Rep 617 Posts Drives: F30 N55 MT/blue metal/red int. Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Florida iTrader: (0)	That's why I chose PROcede over the other, it is "suppose" to trick the ECU. Gotta love it.
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10-03-2007, 08:54 AM	#9
1clean335i Perf BMW mag issue 147, 159 423 Rep 6,803 Posts Drives: Project Estoril Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (31) Garage List 2013 335i M-sport [0.00] 2011 X5 xdrive35i M ... [0.00] 2009 335i M-sport [0.00] 07' 335i Sedan [0.00]	Do you guys know how many tech's drive 335's themselves? __________________ '13 Estoril Blue 335i M-sport *Don't PM me!* Message me here- http://www.facebook.com/ProjectEstoril
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10-03-2007, 11:50 AM	#17
Maestro Major 1048 Rep 1,268 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Sedan, 2021 X3 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (0)	Look guys what they are doing is a check sum verification. This is done on and Flash/ROM device to verify the code that was load has not changed or got corrupted. So if you change the actual program that sits in the ECU they will know. We all know that many car will record and store information about various parameters that are monitored during normal operations. These are FIFO systems meaning first in first out so it stores information for a period of time then purges it for newer information. The only questions is how big this storage is before they begin to purge the information. So if normal operation of the boost is 8 to 10 Psi and now your at 12 to 15 this information is probably stored and they can see it when then hook a computer up, however, if your drive for a few days and never get on it and hit the higher boost levels then most likely the higher boost levels would get purges. One more point, depending on the system they may record and store max and min values and never clear them unless an new max and min show up. So if BMW is doing this, they will see the higher boost numbers that were hit. Many times only way to clear these is to pull the power for a period of time and the memory get wiped. Lastly, be warn most all car companies are looking to put in Blackboxes into cars with a small hard drive which will record everything the car has see and done.
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10-03-2007, 01:25 PM	#18
judec born to be turbocharged 24 Rep 1,347 Posts Drives: Not a bimmer yet Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slovakia iTrader: (0)	Is this another speculation or U know some facts? Cuz I know about those possibilities but haven't heard about it implemented in bimmer or other car. On the other hand do the piggies alter the boost signal, too, dont they? So the ECU can't see the boost is 15psi, right? __________________ Disclaimer: All this message was written with recycled electrons.
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10-03-2007, 02:10 PM	#20
judec born to be turbocharged 24 Rep 1,347 Posts Drives: Not a bimmer yet Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slovakia iTrader: (0)	Lemme argue a lil - they can void your warranty whenever they wish. The only reason they need to be damn sure about it is they will have to prove it when U sue them, not sooner. __________________ Disclaimer: All this message was written with recycled electrons.
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