*********** "true open source" tuning software

Bluesun · 01-30-2014, 11:58 PM

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. The source code is posted in the first post. Nothing to see here. I need to pay more attention next time I read something before flying off into conspiracy land.
-------------------------------------
I remember when the whole open source initiative first started. I was one of the people with lots of programming/reversing experience that volunteered to help contribute to it. Shortly thereafter I had some real life stuff that took my attention away from my car and these forums for quite awhile. After returning to check on it from time to time, I was very disappointed to learn that it became a closed source project that just smelled of shadiness. I lost interest for the time being.

Fast forward to this week when I finally get around to digging out my $30 cable (like this one) so I can try out. I load up the app and it says "cable not found". Turns out this software arbitrarily only seems to work with a few cables. The *********** software is very clearly written in .NET...

Before I go any further, does anyone know if there's a legitimate reason claimed for needing "special" K+DCAN cables, only from "BT"? From where I stand, it looks like every single one of these cables is nothing more than a CAN bus -> serial -> USB converter. Not much special about that, so the software should work with any cable capable of providing this interface.

I'd also like to say that I have no problem supporting people and their work. But I am beyond sick of paying the "BMW" tax so arbitrarily.

Also, I'm not naive and I realize that e90post can be just as shady as the other forums, so I'm half expecting this to get deleted anyhow. But I figured it has even greater odds of getting deleted over there.

Feedback? Am I missing something? Any of the people that helped program that feel like weighing in?

Bluesun · 01-30-2014, 11:59 PM

I forgot that "the other forum" name is flat out censored, because it's on The List of Anapproved Words.

pwr hungry · 01-31-2014, 12:11 AM

In before delete/ban!

richpike · 01-31-2014, 12:13 AM

Sub'd!

Over/under 60 minutes? I'm going under.

-Rich

Bluesun · 01-31-2014, 12:15 AM

I'm going to get banned for asking about tuning software for our cars? Does that really happen?

blaster3500 · 01-31-2014, 12:21 AM

The source has been posted now. The BT cable was used because most of the developers had them already. There were other reasons but I am not sure 100% I will see if I can dig it up.

Bluesun · 01-31-2014, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaster3500

The source has been posted now. The BT cable was used because most of the developers had them already. There were other reasons but I am not sure 100% I will see if I can dig it up.

If that's true then I'm an idiot. All of the info I've found on it (and all of the download links) don't mention anything about the source being available. Maybe I'll try looking around a bit more.

EDIT: The main reason I believe(d) it is closed source is this: "All versions are developed under the copyright [NAME REDACTED BECAUSE RAISINS] holds (AND WILL ENFORCE) on the software. ".

deadmn1337 · 01-31-2014, 12:56 AM

Pretty sure Terry released the source for everyone, but i may be wrong. From my understanding the developer all had BT cables and they were proven to communicate easier with the ecu. The original plan was to release the source and let others code for the cheaper cable if people wanted to use it. The original developers were more worried about getting the code done to flash the coding/tuning.

Bluesun · 01-31-2014, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadmn1337

Pretty sure Terry released the source for everyone, but i may be wrong. From my understanding the developer all had BT cables and they were proven to communicate easier with the ecu. The original plan was to release the source and let others code for the cheaper cable if people wanted to use it. The original developers were more worried about getting the code done to flash the coding/tuning.

Thank you. I still can't seem to find the source posted anywhere, though. If you happen to come across it, could you PM the link to me? Everything moves so fast. It's hard to keep up to date.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. The source code is very clearly posted. Nothing to see here...

3000GT MR · 01-31-2014, 01:09 AM

You called yourself an idot 3 times in exactly 1 hour. Just sayin

Bluesun · 01-31-2014, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

You called yourself an idot 3 times in exactly 1 hour. Just sayin

It actually was exactly 1 hour, wow. At least I didn't rage for too long.

stanlalee · 01-31-2014, 05:03 AM

Do you really believe a required $179 diagnostic cable that allows you to read/write is paying a "BMW tax"? There may be other platforms where you can flash at will OTS stage 1,2, ethanol, piggyback maps as well custom tune for an investment of $179 (or free if you borrow one) but I've never had any. When I upgraded my turbo on my VW there was ONE option even remotely similar (eurodyne maestro suite). Cost $800, cable and software proprietary, vin locked (pay an additional $400 to license each vehicle) and had user access to a fraction of the maps....yet the community felt it was a relative bargain. The other options were to pay $500 and up for a OTS or custom tune. Ended up paying $650 for a custom tune. Take car to APR dealer to remove $600 encrypted tune, wait for Alientech Powergate 3 (the device openflash tablet uses) from custom tuner, read ECU ROM and mail out to tuner, wait for tuner to send back vin locked tune,flash tune, log and revise if not running right, pay him again if I change hardware and need a different tune.

Open source or proprietary there is absolutely NO BMW tuning tax what so ever.

deadmn1337 · 01-31-2014, 12:04 PM

wow im surprised this lasted til morning.

V8bait · 01-31-2014, 07:24 PM

The cable's aren't just "cables", even the DCAN an K-Line cables have microchips inside them. One of the issues with that is each one has a different chip, some cables are lower quality, etc. The biggest thing here is that the communications protocols used by the DCAN cables are an odd language, whereas the BT cable uses a normal communications protocol. In addition, compatibility between different coding cables (chinese versions vs expensive versions etc) would have been a pain, the software has no datalogging capabilities so the bt software adds that, and it's a high quality cable unlike many DCAN cables are.

That's my understanding. But the source is there, it wouldn't be that hard to make it compatible with a cheaper cable if the right person was motivated. Not that I see it as a big deal, you can flash as many cars as you want with a single BT cable.

01-30-2014, 11:58 PM	#1
Bluesun sudo su - 52 Rep 236 Posts Drives: 2018 McLaren 570S Spider Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ohio - CLE iTrader: (0)	********* "true open source" tuning software EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. The source code is posted in the first post. Nothing to see here. I need to pay more attention next time I read something before flying off into conspiracy land. ------------------------------------- I remember when the whole open source initiative first started. I was one of the people with lots of programming/reversing experience that volunteered to help contribute to it. Shortly thereafter I had some real life stuff that took my attention away from my car and these forums for quite awhile. After returning to check on it from time to time, I was very disappointed to learn that it became a closed source project that just smelled of shadiness. I lost interest for the time being. Fast forward to this week when I finally get around to digging out my $30 cable (like this one) so I can try out. I load up the app and it says "cable not found". Turns out this software arbitrarily only seems to work with a few cables. The ********* software is very clearly written in .NET... Before I go any further, does anyone know if there's a legitimate reason claimed for needing "special" K+DCAN cables, only from "BT"? From where I stand, it looks like every single one of these cables is nothing more than a CAN bus -> serial -> USB converter. Not much special about that, so the software should work with any cable capable of providing this interface. I'd also like to say that I have no problem supporting people and their work. But I am beyond sick of paying the "BMW" tax so arbitrarily. Also, I'm not naive and I realize that e90post can be just as shady as the other forums, so I'm half expecting this to get deleted anyhow. But I figured it has even greater odds of getting deleted over there. Feedback? Am I missing something? Any of the people that helped program that feel like weighing in? Last edited by Bluesun; 01-31-2014 at 01:00 AM..
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01-30-2014, 11:59 PM	#2
Bluesun sudo su - 52 Rep 236 Posts Drives: 2018 McLaren 570S Spider Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ohio - CLE iTrader: (0)	I forgot that "the other forum" name is flat out censored, because it's on The List of Anapproved Words. Last edited by Bluesun; 01-31-2014 at 12:56 AM..
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01-31-2014, 12:11 AM	#3
pwr hungry Banned 44 Rep 1,257 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Amer'ca iTrader: (2)	In before delete/ban!
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01-31-2014, 12:13 AM	#4
richpike Captain 33 Rep 713 Posts Drives: MDX, LR4 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: CO - 6500ft ASL iTrader: (1)	Sub'd! Over/under 60 minutes? I'm going under. -Rich
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01-31-2014, 12:15 AM	#5
Bluesun sudo su - 52 Rep 236 Posts Drives: 2018 McLaren 570S Spider Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ohio - CLE iTrader: (0)	I'm going to get banned for asking about tuning software for our cars? Does that really happen?
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01-31-2014, 12:21 AM	#6
blaster3500 Lieutenant 143 Rep 567 Posts Drives: 07 E90 335i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seneca, SC iTrader: (7)	The source has been posted now. The BT cable was used because most of the developers had them already. There were other reasons but I am not sure 100% I will see if I can dig it up.
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01-31-2014, 12:56 AM	#8
deadmn1337 Captain 39 Rep 656 Posts Drives: 2016 EB 435i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Long Beach iTrader: (11)	Pretty sure Terry released the source for everyone, but i may be wrong. From my understanding the developer all had BT cables and they were proven to communicate easier with the ecu. The original plan was to release the source and let others code for the cheaper cable if people wanted to use it. The original developers were more worried about getting the code done to flash the coding/tuning.
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01-31-2014, 01:09 AM	#10
3000GT MR Major 267 Rep 1,392 Posts Drives: 09 335i/3000gt vr4 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Sav GA iTrader: (6)	You called yourself an idot 3 times in exactly 1 hour. Just sayin __________________ Have a single turbo and/or tired of burning up O2 sensors? Ask me about the new ADV O2 sensor retro kits! 335i 2010 e92 M-sport Mods: VM Top mount 6466, Aquamist HSF4 w/custom direct port. VRSF IC + Exhaust 335i 2009 e90 665RWHP VFF900 ST RIP .
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01-31-2014, 05:03 AM	#12
stanlalee Major 261 Rep 1,093 Posts Drives: 07' E92 335i manual Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Newport News, Va iTrader: (0)	Do you really believe a required $179 diagnostic cable that allows you to read/write is paying a "BMW tax"? There may be other platforms where you can flash at will OTS stage 1,2, ethanol, piggyback maps as well custom tune for an investment of $179 (or free if you borrow one) but I've never had any. When I upgraded my turbo on my VW there was ONE option even remotely similar (eurodyne maestro suite). Cost $800, cable and software proprietary, vin locked (pay an additional $400 to license each vehicle) and had user access to a fraction of the maps....yet the community felt it was a relative bargain. The other options were to pay $500 and up for a OTS or custom tune. Ended up paying $650 for a custom tune. Take car to APR dealer to remove $600 encrypted tune, wait for Alientech Powergate 3 (the device openflash tablet uses) from custom tuner, read ECU ROM and mail out to tuner, wait for tuner to send back vin locked tune,flash tune, log and revise if not running right, pay him again if I change hardware and need a different tune. Open source or proprietary there is absolutely NO BMW tuning tax what so ever.
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01-31-2014, 12:04 PM	#13
deadmn1337 Captain 39 Rep 656 Posts Drives: 2016 EB 435i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Long Beach iTrader: (11)	wow im surprised this lasted til morning.
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01-31-2014, 07:24 PM	#14
V8bait Lieutenant 406 Rep 574 Posts Drives: e92 335i 6mt Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Houston iTrader: (1)	The cable's aren't just "cables", even the DCAN an K-Line cables have microchips inside them. One of the issues with that is each one has a different chip, some cables are lower quality, etc. The biggest thing here is that the communications protocols used by the DCAN cables are an odd language, whereas the BT cable uses a normal communications protocol. In addition, compatibility between different coding cables (chinese versions vs expensive versions etc) would have been a pain, the software has no datalogging capabilities so the bt software adds that, and it's a high quality cable unlike many DCAN cables are. That's my understanding. But the source is there, it wouldn't be that hard to make it compatible with a cheaper cable if the right person was motivated. Not that I see it as a big deal, you can flash as many cars as you want with a single BT cable.
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