[KwlAznKid]

I need some advice on here from you guys on what is fair, just to be clear I'm not pointing fingers at anyone nor am I saying anyone is scamming anyone right now.

I had a e92 m3 replica bumper for sale (posted here) a member from florida wanted to buy the bumper, sent me paypal, we agreed to ship greyhound to save money for him since I said buyer would have to cover shipping costs, sounds fair enough. I drop off the bumper to ship a few days later, I took a few pictures of the bumper at the greyhound station prior to being packed onto the bus, the bumper left me in perfect condition (brand new, never painted, all clips in tact)

I even took a picture of the tracking info and sent it to the buyer

fast forward a week or so later, I get an e-mail saying I have a paypal dispute against me and paypal is now holding the money that he sent me.. initially I was shocked, I thought I was getting scammed so I called him right away

he informed me that the bumper was damaged upon arrival and has broken clips. having done NUMBEROUS deals on here, m3forum, and e46fanatics I always give the benefit of the doubt to the buyer so I tell him I believe him and I want to be fair, I ask him to take the bumper to a body shop to see how much repairs will be and I will happily refund him however it costs to repair and i'll count it as a loss for me.. he agrees and we hang up.. I wait a few days to hear from him, nothing. I text him asking if he's got an amount that any body shop has quoted, no reply.. now paypal is still holding my money and I'm getting nervous

I want to be a fair seller, at the same time if paypal holds my money and refunds him the full amount I'm out $100 for shipping + the money he sent me + the actual bumper itself!!! that's about a grand...

any advice on what I can do? once again I am not claiming anything, I just am asking the forum on what is the most FAIR solution from an unbiased standpoint.

thanks for the long read

[gtron]

that what i hate about paypal. they almost always side with the buyer and some use that to their advantage to get free stuff. i hope you at least get it back and/or everything works out. good luck, bro!

[Templar]

Scam. You're going to lose your money and the item. Paypal usually always sides with the buyer, so all he has to do is file a dispute and it could be total BS but they will still give him his money back. With all the horror stories posted here, it's a wonder why anyone uses Paypal at all anymore.

Calling him obviously didn't help, and I think all communication for this should have been in e-mail so it could be tracked somewhat (even e-mails can be faked if someone is really trying to scam you). But, all you have now is he said/she said over the phone with no record of anything but your word. Not calling you a liar, just telling it like it is because this is how Paypal thinks.

Sorry.

[Billup]

I would counter the dispute with Paypal and ask for pictures of the damage and pictures of the box that it was delivered in. Realistically, he should be more than willing to answer your calls and texts, so the fact he is not is already a huge red flag.

I would send the information you have to PayPal regarding the dispute and everything you have done as far as trying to reach out to him. Unfortunately, they usually always do take the side of the buyer, so I would try and start making some padding for yourself now because you might end up in a losing battle.

[Red Bread]

Have you considered posting their full name and a few Google Maps pics of their house, all while calling them out on other forums? I hear that works well.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Have you considered posting their full name and a few Google Maps pics of their house, all while calling them out on other forums? I hear that works well.

['Cane]

Post the user name.

[gtron]

lol

be careful before you put their username. make sure (s)he really is at fault and it's not just a misunderstanding.

now if they are a scammer, we should all know and be free to drag them through the coals.

[KwlAznKid]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Have you considered posting their full name and a few Google Maps pics of their house, all while calling them out on other forums? I hear that works well.

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Originally Posted by 'Cane

Post the user name.

LOL I thought of that thread when I was making this haha

the guy really seemed like a honest guy (but then again when do scammers seem like scammers right? lol) but he has a good itrader rating on here and has been on here for a few years as well lol, I'm not going to post his address or username though, this issue is still in the works and I really don't want to point any fingers still

[KwlAznKid]

so paypal reached a resolution this morning, says that he has to ship the item back to me on his dime and then he will get the full refund, honestly I'm fine with that as long as I get the item back so we'll see , thanks for all the input fellas

[MediaArtist]

Is there a reason people still use paypal, or do deals with relatively unknown people over internet forums instead of selling it locally/in person, or with someone you actually know beyond the initial contact for the trade/sale?

I've been on Audi, Porsche, and BMW forums and I see this happen so often (at least 2 threads a month) where PayPal ends up having to be the arbiter in a dispute like this.

[PINeely]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Is there a reason people still use paypal, or do deals with relatively unknown people over internet forums instead of selling it locally/in person, or with someone you actually know beyond the initial contact for the trade/sale?

I've been on Audi, Porsche, and BMW forums and I see this happen so often (at least 2 threads a month) where PayPal ends up having to be the arbiter in a dispute like this.

I was thinking the same, especially for a part like a bumper which is difficult to pack properly, easily damaged and expensive to ship. I would rather go to Craigslist.

[P1]

Is the guy with the Lexus SUV reading this? You have another job waiting for you...

[KwlAznKid]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Is there a reason people still use paypal, or do deals with relatively unknown people over internet forums instead of selling it locally/in person, or with someone you actually know beyond the initial contact for the trade/sale?

I've been on Audi, Porsche, and BMW forums and I see this happen so often (at least 2 threads a month) where PayPal ends up having to be the arbiter in a dispute like this.

Originally Posted by PINeely

I was thinking the same, especially for a part like a bumper which is difficult to pack properly, easily damaged and expensive to ship. I would rather go to Craigslist.

honestly because 1. I am idiot 2. I have a soft heart. I did have a local buyer infact I had 2, but the guy who I was selling to told me this story about how he got into an accident and really really needed the bumper and I got soft hearted and not only gave up on 2 local sales but was willing to ship it to him, now this happens. I want to say lesson learned and move on but honestly I just feel really stupid now

on a side note, mediaartist you ready for round 1? this is going to be a fun series

Originally Posted by P1et

Is the guy with the Lexus SUV reading this? You have another job waiting for you...

lol not sure I catch this reference, is this from the m3 brakes thread?

[P1]

Originally Posted by KwlAznKid

honestly because 1. I am idiot 2. I have a soft heart. I did have a local buyer infact I had 2, but the guy who I was selling to told me this story about how he got into an accident and really really needed the bumper and I got soft hearted and not only gave up on 2 local sales but was willing to ship it to him, now this happens. I want to say lesson learned and move on but honestly I just feel really stupid now

on a side note, mediaartist you ready for round 1? this is going to be a fun series




lol not sure I catch this reference, is this from the m3 brakes thread?

Haha, it sure is...

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by KwlAznKid

honestly because 1. I am idiot 2. I have a soft heart. I did have a local buyer infact I had 2, but the guy who I was selling to told me this story about how he got into an accident and really really needed the bumper and I got soft hearted and not only gave up on 2 local sales but was willing to ship it to him, now this happens. I want to say lesson learned and move on but honestly I just feel really stupid now

on a side note, mediaartist you ready for round 1? this is going to be a fun series

I get it. Forums are communities and you try to help the members out if you like the community, but honestly after seeing how PayPal has completely boned people in the past, I'd rather sell locally, even for a lesser amount than I would get on an online eBay/paypal transaction.

As for round 1, LobCity vs Dubs is going to be the #1 most exciting series in terms of scoring. The #1 (Clippers) and #10 (GSW) offenses going at each other with no love lost. Portland vs Houston will also be a shoot out (Batum and Aldridge vs Harden/Lin/Parsons). So I'll be keeping an eye on that series as well.

[BEM-S4]

Guys - one thing to keep in mind (not helpful here but maybe in the future) is that going through eBay as opposed to just Paypal they cover all of this crap. Yes you pay a fee, but in this instance the following would happen: buyer would get reimbursed, seller would receive damaged item back, take to police station for police report since over $300 (i think what the threshold is) and eBay would reimburse seller for the entire sale amount. I had to do that once and while it took a little time it saved me a ton of money.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by KwlAznKid

so paypal reached a resolution this morning, says that he has to ship the item back to me on his dime and then he will get the full refund, honestly I'm fine with that as long as I get the item back so we'll see , thanks for all the input fellas

that's actually cool. hope he doesn't jack it up if he ships it. it's nice to know paypal is trying to play fair with you.

[Maestro]

Gee, another one, we all worried about being scammed, but you have to wonder when someone immediate files a claim with paypal without first communicating with the seller. If you buy something off a retailer and there was problem do you immediately call your CC company and fill a fraud claim, of course you will not since the CC company will ask you for all kinds of proof you were defrauded, Paypal seems to have made it easily for people to say they are not paying.

Personally there is no reason for a person to immediately file a claim they have time to do that. If buys is has not reached out to you first and try to resolve it they are trying to pull a fast one somehow. They may not be a professional scammer but just read the thread about the M3 brake and see what happens.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by P1et

Is the guy with the Lexus SUV reading this? You have another job waiting for you...

I want to know that person is, I wonder if the Dr. Learned his lesson.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by KwlAznKid

LOL I thought of that thread when I was making this haha

the guy really seemed like a honest guy (but then again when do scammers seem like scammers right? lol) but he has a good itrader rating on here and has been on here for a few years as well lol, I'm not going to post his address or username though, this issue is still in the works and I really don't want to point any fingers still

Ah come on, all I need is name which is not common and a town they live in and we on our way.

[KwlAznKid]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Guys - one thing to keep in mind (not helpful here but maybe in the future) is that going through eBay as opposed to just Paypal they cover all of this crap. Yes you pay a fee, but in this instance the following would happen: buyer would get reimbursed, seller would receive damaged item back, take to police station for police report since over $300 (i think what the threshold is) and eBay would reimburse seller for the entire sale amount. I had to do that once and while it took a little time it saved me a ton of money.

interesting idea, never heard about that before

Originally Posted by gtron

that's actually cool. hope he doesn't jack it up if he ships it. it's nice to know paypal is trying to play fair with you.

yea hope so too.. this has just been a pain

Originally Posted by Maestro

Gee, another one, we all worried about being scammed, but you have to wonder when someone immediate files a claim with paypal without first communicating with the seller. If you buy something off a retailer and there was problem do you immediately call your CC company and fill a fraud claim, of course you will not since the CC company will ask you for all kinds of proof you were defrauded, Paypal seems to have made it easily for people to say they are not paying.

Personally there is no reason for a person to immediately file a claim they have time to do that. If buys is has not reached out to you first and try to resolve it they are trying to pull a fast one somehow. They may not be a professional scammer but just read the thread about the M3 brake and see what happens.

exactly, I have received items that were not as claimed or whatever but I always communicate with the seller first, I've only filed paypal claim ONCE and that was because well.. the guy never shipped the item out period! when I received the e-mail for paypal claim on me I immediately thought I was getting scammed since I wasn't even aware that the item was "damaged"

Originally Posted by Maestro

Ah come on, all I need is name which is not common and a town they live in and we on our way.