[Snaggletooth]

Hey guys,

I don't post here that often anymore but before I left, I left a review of Vargas Turbo Tech. I installed the stage two beta's with the upgraded thrust parts on my daily driver n54 e92 about a year ago and feel like it'd be a disservice not to share my experience with you guys.

Now, here's the disclaimer: This is my opinion based on my personal experience. Your experience may vary and I make no guarantees. If you choose to follow my tuning procedure, you do so at your own risk. When in doubt, take the car to a pro. I'm not being compensated in any way for this review. I'm simply doing it to offer insight, review VTT's product, and inform the curious as to what VTT Stg2's are like.

I daily drive my car, I run a FBO car and have meth installed which I use on occasion (hooked up and filled, map switched for the occasional run, etc.)
I have put 16k miles on the car with these turbos and the miles are a mix of stop and go traffic, 2-3 lane city, freeway, and occasionally accelerating through the gears (I run a manual, stock clutch is in the car until the next major service).

I bought a pair of early production stage 1's after my stock turbo's were giving me the wastegate rattle and were getting whiny and laggy. I purchased from Vargas over RB Turbo because I wanted a more durable replacement for the stockers. RB wasn't even a consideration, since I wasn't looking for all out hybrid turbo's. (There are plenty of RB reviews for the curious, but RB isn't relevant to this review and the rivalry seems to be worse than the Ford vs. Chevy debate). As it turned out, The stage 1's had a few gremlins which Tony Vargas promptly and unequivocally sorted out by sending me a pair of stage 2's for my trouble. The stage 1's seemed pretty tough when I had them on the car, but the stage 2's turned the car into a whole different animal. At the time, I was stunned. As fate would have it, my car would go from run of the mill FBO to an absolute sleeper beast.



A few notes on the various facets of running these turbos:


1) Do they noticeably lag?

I have noticed some minor lag that I attribute to running a Stett intercooler (which has a big-ass core rated for 600+hp) and the fact that the turbos have inherently bigger/heavier internals. The intercooler I run is probably 3x the volume of the stocker and is a whole lot for these small frame hybrid turbos to fill. There is a minor increase in the time it takes for full boost to come on, but you can shift and drive around it in a manual / tiptronic car by keeping the rev's up and leaving the car in it's powerband. The spool is still ridiculously quick, the turbo itself is still small.


2) How did the turbo swap affect the cars' driveability?

To my surprise, the change in the boost threshold (often mistaken for lag) actually makes the car a bit more civil to drive around town. Because the powerband moved up ~500rpm compared to stock, the turbos aren't always spooling up and pushing out a ton of boost at low rpm's like the stockers with the tiny intercooler were. The stockers with the small intercooler seemed to make boost just a hair above idle, my setup begins spooling at about 2k and make some serious boost at about 3k. It does blunt the bottom end a bit, but almost all performance modifications move the powerband up. It's not as significant as camming an LS engine, but it's somewhat noticeable. Fuel economy has actually improved when off boost and driving conservatively, but on boost the car is thirsty (as expected). I average 20.5mpg while daily driving, which isn't bad considering this car is probably putting out something like 500hp. The turbos have proven to be reliable so far even when subjected to daily driving and hard acceleration.

I'd compare the difference between a FBO car and a FBO+hybrid turbo car to the difference between a 600cc bike and a 1000cc bike, or a GT3 Porsche to a 911 turbo. It's pretty significant. This car still catches me off guard at times with how quick it is, especially when the turbos hit peak boost in the midrange and at freeway speeds. Even in 6th, the car moves. As in: foot to the floor at 70, turbos begin to whistle, you're now going 105.

First gear is particularly risky, I usually short shift because the car is downright violent above 3200 RPM in first. The powerband actually reminds me of my 170hp motorcycle. Similarly to the bike, first gear is basically insanity (instead of wheelies, the car either roasts the clutch, tires, or hits redline), second through 4th gear is violent acceleration, 5th gear is the "poop on the jerkoff with the AMG who won't let you into the carpool lane" gear, and 6th gear is the "I wanna pretend it's an auto but I can still pass" gear.

The spooling alone is hilarious, the turbos add the classic spool whistle in the background of the N54 growl, burbles, and pops. If you've driven next to a semi with the windows down you know the spool sound. The sound is very noticeable, but most laypeople assume it's a passing semi or diesel truck and your right foot controls it. It's very prominent without the A/C filter tray. Keep the tray and underhood insulation and you're incognito.


3) How much boost? What tuning?

I found that the stock BMS jb4 G5 tuning is good for my daily driving, but I modified some of the parameters so that the car isn't as conservative with limiting the boost to 17.5psi. The car is running ~19 psi on my daily driver map and 21psi when I am running with methanol or some e85 in the tank. I tend to err on the conservative side with tuning since my car has 80k miles and is my primary mode of transportation. If something goes pop, i'm stuck with the aforementioned savage old school liter bike with flatslide carbs and engine work that bucks and lurches at anything under a race pace, so needless to say I play it safe. The Paul Walkers will be able to squeeze out more boost, but I usually just stick 91 in it and drive unless i'm going for a joyride @ 21psi and running methanol or ethanol.


4) What can it run against?

Well, not the GT500. I got slaughtered by one of the new GT500's recently on a private road, but other than that, this car is a monster. I hung with the GT500 until about 110 where it crept forward and just kept moving. The driver told me he hit 150. I believe it, that beast has 660hp stock.

If you're mindful of your powerband and shift accordingly, it can (and will) take a 600cc or lesser bike with a sloppy rider that can't keep the rev's up. The car can pretty much line up with anything with 2 or 4 doors that isn't 3rd party or factory tuned and over $80k. C63's are routine kills even running my lowest boost map. I've also committed plenty of FBO fratricide and can slay any base level 'vette or 911, Mustang (except modded 5.0's or better), late 2000's AMG's, early vipers, '90s-early '00s supercars, etc.


5) Summing it all up

This car is in a league that's usually reserved for streetfire videos and modball rallies. It's a legitimately fast car that can give a black eye to the purebred factory tuned or exotic marques for less than 6k of mods. It's definitely faster than almost all the other vehicles on the road at any given moment. If you ride a race replica motorcycle, you know the feeling. The car also has a somewhat unassuming character to it, even though it's tuned, blacked out, and loud. People just assume it's a 20 year old male's hand-me-down 328i with some flash for street cred. Nobody really assumes the car is 500hp fast. I like that. It's almost like an inception sleeper. It's no sleeper by definition, but it is by reputation, but it isn't to those in the know, but it is to the layman. I'm on board.

It's a kick explaining to people what "VTTO" means after they see the sticker on the trunk, and then seeing their reactions when they actually ride in the car and see that it's a low-key monster. (Vargas may want to change the stickers to tri-color red/white/blue to prevent the confusion about the "O" looking spiral motif in the future.) I'll admit, my car is a kinda ratty looking daily driver with rivets, scuffs, raw carbon, and dusty paint. My philosophy is the car could look like a purple dildo on the outside and I wouldn't care so long as the mechanical parts are immaculate.

The Vargas stage two's fit the bill for my car. They aren't as flashy as moving up to an M, AMG, or purebred sports car, but my car shits on them for its intended purpose. I have driven some of the high end sports cars. The 997 911s seemed flat, boring, and slow compared to my car. I drove a Testarossa and almost fell asleep. Same with the 360 modena, no torque whatsoever. The Aston Vantage (v12) seemed roughly equivalent in power but didn't give you the turbo spool torque hit. The power was there, but not the spool-pinned to seat-going too fast sensation of my car. I'd wager that a stage 2 car like mine would stick to the Vantage in a drag race and possibly reel it in depending on the tune.

My car feels like it is the mad max police interceptor in spirit. Form following function. The stage two's are to my car what the switchable 6-71 supercharger is to the interceptor. It's not a weak car at all, by any definition, compared to any reasonable benchmark. New performance cars are getting stupidly fast and these turbos made my N54 car relevant to me for another 4 or so years. I'm actually contemplating buying a long block and tranny for when mine inevitably goes pop at 200k miles or so.

I hope this sheds some insight for the curious. Vargas Turbo's are winners in my book. I don't think any prospective customers are going to be hurting if they buy the stage 2's for the purpose of having a mean street/strip car.





TL;DR: I dig the stage 2's, nothing has blown up yet, they are the cheapest way to supercar speed with more than two wheels.

[nikitino25]

Thanks for the excellent write up. Just one question, I'm thinking about upgrading turbos in the near future but have no desire to run any meth at all. Do your superlatives regarding these turbos still apply to your "no meth" map and with just straight 93 or 91 octane? I would be using strictly 93 octane....would it still be worth it to get these stage 2 turbos without running meth?

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by nikitino25

Thanks for the excellent write up. Just one question, I'm thinking about upgrading turbos in the near future but have no desire to run any meth at all. Do your superlatives regarding these turbos still apply to your "no meth" map and with just straight 93 or 91 octane? I would be using strictly 93 octane....would it still be worth it to get these stage 2 turbos without running meth?

This is my big question regarding bigger twins too..

Excellent review btw!

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by nikitino25

Thanks for the excellent write up. Just one question, I'm thinking about upgrading turbos in the near future but have no desire to run any meth at all. Do your superlatives regarding these turbos still apply to your "no meth" map and with just straight 93 or 91 octane? I would be using strictly 93 octane....would it still be worth it to get these stage 2 turbos without running meth?

It's still pretty savage without meth and on 91 octane. On my daily driver map, I don't tend to push it as much obviously but I'll admit I have chased down a rival car or two and prevailed. The stage 2's don't choke up top so the pull you get doesn't fade off at the upper revs as noticeably as the stockers. They are also a lot more durable with the upgraded thrust (which is a must IMO). I've absolutely violated S4's and RS4's. No problem. You may experience misfiring if you run the car hard on 91 octane without the crank position sensor wire installed in the JB4. I limit boost to a few PSI above the stock JB4 map for non-meth daily driving and it's still an animal.

You're in a better position than I am with the available 93 octane. My options for the big boost maps are: run meth with my 91 octane and pray to god that the cheap-o failsafe board works if something goes wrong, run 91 mixed with e85 and hope that my HPFP doesn't decide to call it a day, or sell a few pints of blood on the black market and buy 100 or 110 octane at the track.

I wouldn't let pump gas be an overwhelming barrier to the stage 2's, you'll see longevity gains and a moderate power bump even without meth.



EDIT: I'm more than happy to share my insight. This place is admittedly a time-suck for me (i'm working on a doctorate level degree and can't spend entire nights on here anymore haha), but giving and receiving information like this is what this place excels at.

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

This is my big question regarding bigger twins too..

Excellent review btw!

Thank you! Please refer to my previous post. Pump gas isn't a real problem for me so long as I keep the PSI reasonable. The JB4 seems to do its job well enough on auto-tune with a few tweaks.

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Snaggletooth

Thank you! Please refer to my previous post. Pump gas isn't a real problem for me so long as I keep the PSI reasonable. The JB4 seems to do its job well enough on auto-tune with a few tweaks.

Thanks! man 19 psi til redline on pump gas must still feel pretty awesome!

[335i-boy]

Really nice review. You have answered a lot of my questions regarding upgraded turbos.

Thanks for taking the time to write it.

[BQTuning]

That GT500 must gave been tuned.+ MODS. A FBO n54 with stock turbo can moon a stock GT500

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

That GT500 must gave been tuned.+ MODS. A FBO n54 with stock turbo can moon a stock GT500

Iono about that one. It was a brand spanking new 2013. They leave the factory with 662 horsepower, 38 shy of an even 700 hp.

Edit: who knows though, maybe the guy was a loon that shoved an extra couple hundred hp into that car.

[JStang]

Are these the original Stage 2's or the stage 2 build 2?

[bigdaddycane]

great write up....well done.

[Stucks]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

That GT500 must gave been tuned.+ MODS. A FBO n54 with stock turbo can moon a stock GT500

pre 2013, yes. 2013+ no. as was stated, they make 662 hp now thanks to a bigger motor (5.8 liters) and 14 psi (up from 9 psi). Huge difference between a 2012 gt500 and a 2013 lol.

[135Pats]

The newest Cobras are badddd cars driven off the dealer lot. I don’t mess with them, they will embarrass about everything on the road.

[Island Road]

Originally Posted by JStang

Are these the original Stage 2's or the stage 2 build 2?

OP Said Beta just Stg2Batch1

[cstmx_ryder]

Reading this actually makes me wanna keep the damn car.....lol.

[B2STYB0Y]

Are you just running a jb4 on map 5/6 or something? Also if you are have you thought about stacking, considering you have upgraded turbos and the occasional meth fix.

[BQTuning]

Edit ...nvm

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by Transport3r

Thanks! man 19 psi til redline on pump gas must still feel pretty awesome!

I actually taper as a safety precaution, I drop to 17.5 on my street map and 19 on my kill map. It's still a boatload more boost at redline than the stockers would handle for sure. If I spent a few hours on a dyno I'd probably fine tune it but my method was just seeing where the timing started getting weird or where the fuel pump was struggling.

Edit: Keep in mind the turbo housings are somewhat of a limitation. You might find it helpful to refer to the efficiency islands for these turbo's / housings or maybe split the difference between the td03 and td04 efficiency islands. Keeping the turbo's from pushing out hot air is key.

TBH i'd probably need to go with an inline fuel pump, stronger clutch, and e85 or a better/full time methanol setup to fully realize the potential of these turbos, but it's my DD and the current setup fits the bill for my application. Methanol is a good band-aid for the fueling issues but those are the weak-links in my setup at the moment.

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by B2STYB0Y

Are you just running a jb4 on map 5/6 or something? Also if you are have you thought about stacking, considering you have upgraded turbos and the occasional meth fix.

Sorry for the double post,

I've considered it. Map 5 with some tweaks is my street map and I made my own map after doing some datalogged roll-on's.

Stacking is probably in my future since it's not an incredibly huge expense but my financial commitments are elsewhere for the time being as i'm pursuing other motorsports and higher education.

I'd actually prefer to focus on suspension, brakes, and longevity mods in the future over engine mods as the car is already a beast as-is right now.

[Glowin]

Great writeup! Thanks.

Your mod list doesn't show any suspension mods. Is that right? No LSD either?

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by Glowin

Great writeup! Thanks.

Your mod list doesn't show any suspension mods. Is that right? No LSD either?

I have a few suspension mods, but nothing major at the moment. Control arms, tie rods, and chassis bracing.

I decided to pursue motorcycle racing / track days a little more seriously when I realized that I could get a functioning purebred race vehicle for the cost of a few gas-pressurized tubes on the car.

As for the handling, I had a chrome bumper C3 vette with a built small block for a while before this, this car is a walk in the park compared to that noodle framed engine on wheels.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Alex, thanks for the awesome write up. We wish more people would share stories such as these. Its very well written and informative. For every problem we see, there are 30 happy customers, but it seems its usually only the ones with problems that post. Thanks again for the great write up, and support! Glad we got a chance to work with you!