[Cozy]

I hope some of you guys may be able to help here as me and my Pro-Tuner are having some drivability issues with the car.

So...

N54 with 35k
6MT
Catless DP's
200 cell catted mids
BMW PE
ETS FMIC
Cobb AP
Stock intake
Stock CP
Stock DV's
94oct always

Ok, so with OTS stage 2+ aggressive the car ran great and never failed to accelerate smoothly or cleanly however, since Pro-Tuning the car now hold back power when I accelerate hardly between 2-3.5k. Best described as the car feeling like it's hit a wall after the initial kick of the turbos, keeps accelerating but without much force and then roughly after 3.5k it goes like a rocket ship...seriously so fast and much more so than OTS. Think of what I'm describing as traction control kicking in severely but, what I am experiencing is all with traction control switched off.

I believe that this is timing pull to keep the engine safe? The turbos now boost to around 18psi and I'm wondering if perhaps at certain points in the rev range that this is too much causing the 'power cut' that I'm getting. What do you think?

We've been through around 10 maps I'd say with the last two being total start agains. These last two maps are MUCH better but the issue still persists in places.

Has anyone had anything similar?

I've been logging with every map, everything from normal driving to WOT and I can see the issue occurring.
It appears to be torque induced timing pull not helped by a sensitive timing curve. My car seems way too happy to overshoot the torque but there's no issues with the OTS maps at all but I suspect that's due to a very conservative timing curve and lower boost pressure.

I'll post some logs up here of the latest runs as soon as I can.

I'm working with PTF, but it's hard for them to help me fully as I'm on the other side of the globe (well, far enough away anyway) so, I'm hoping to lend a hand from info gleaned from you guys as honestly I feel bad and useless not being able to help more. I'm hoping that there's something I can do my end but I can't find any hardware issues.

I'd love to be able to take it to them so they could experience the issue but that's an impossibility.

For reference, last service was 3k ago with new plugs and I have no misfires or codes.

Injectors replaced under warranty at 25k
Hpfp and lpfp replaced at 32k.

[Ingeniator]

Post some logs to datazap.

[Dosturbos]

Torque limiting table is what you're experiencing I believe.
Does this happen when you go WOT in certain gears?
Its your tuner, he needs to go through each gear and change the tables.
I've experienced this personally on my 135i and my 335i.
A good pro tuner will go through each gear to smooth these out.
You'd get codes if it were fuel related or a misfire

[Cozy]

Originally Posted by Dosturbos

Torque limiting table is what you're experiencing I believe.
Does this happen when you go WOT in certain gears?
Its your tuner, he needs to go through each gear and change the tables.
I've experienced this personally on my 135i and my 335i.
A good pro tuner will go through each gear to smooth these out.
You'd get codes if it were fuel related or a misfire

Oh my God, someone who understands! Thank you so much for responding .

Yes it does happen when I go WOT from part throttle in 1st-4th and it's a huge pain in gonads.

I'll pass this info to PTF.

Is it a case that the DME is setup to expect a certain torque value/upper limit and, as a Pro-tune is far exceeding that, the limit needs to be raised?

[Alucard335iA]

Jap, had the same Problem.

[jayzF30]

I would just email PTF. That is just a torque limit and easy to work around for them. They are tuning around the globe all the time so that should not be a problem.

[Dosturbos]

It's a terrible feeling when our cars stop making power at low to midrange RPM's.
Good luck and I hope it's the toque limiting table that's causing you your trouble.
It's literally as simple as changing a value in the table at the specific RPM.
I had my tuner show me last time what he was doing when we were road tuning my car.
I was hitting a wall around 4500 RPM in 4th gear and he just changed the value in the table and the problem was fixed.

[chepy24]

Had the same issue with my first map from ptf. Shouldn't be an issue I would just tell them in the email when you send your logs I mentioned it in mine and sent it on wed. Still waiting for my first revision they must be slammed but I'm sure they will take care of it

[vivanapoli806]

They are always busy. I sent jake email couple days ago haven't heard back. I don't mind waiting. I think they just did a group buy on tunes so I'm sure they are all working on those

[chepy24]

Originally Posted by vivanapoli806

They are always busy. I sent jake email couple days ago haven't heard back. I don't mind waiting. I think they just did a group buy on tunes so I'm sure they are all working on those

I was part of that group buy working with jake as well haha I don't mind waiting either I know they're great at what they do blew my charge pipe with my first map from him haha just waiting on the revision

[Cozy]

Thank you all, it's such a relief to know that I'm not alone. I was starting to fall out of love with the car and co shsering a JB4 instead.

I've relayed all this to PTF and I have a new map to try already so, I'll update you guys as soon as I've been able to try it.

[Cozy]

Hi all.

I tried my new map and the problems persist. I have attached the datazap logs to show the issue which range from some short pulls to a WOT pull which all have the issue, perhaps bar the WOT log actually as it doesn't seem to happen when my foot is flat to the board, only when going from part throttle to WOT.

To reiterate, with the OTS Stage 2+ Agg this does not happen and the car runs beautifully.

The car also sometime feels like it has no power even when pulling away, let alone trying to launch in first...timing pull central there! Again, OTS log has no problem.

The first two logs highlight the issue to a lesser degree.
The third log had it bad as did the fifth log.
The fourth log is a complete WOT run.

What do you think? I don't understand why we (me & PTF) can't solve this.

Log 1, 3rd Gear: http://www.datazap.me/u/cozy/p003-re...=0&data=2-9-22

Log 2, 3rd Gear: http://www.datazap.me/u/cozy/p003-re...log-2-3rd-gear

Log 3, 3rd Gear: http://www.datazap.me/u/cozy/p003-re...log-3-3rd-gear

Log 4, 3rd Gear WOT: http://www.datazap.me/u/cozy/p003-re...log-4-3rd-gear

Log 5, 2nd Gear: http://www.datazap.me/u/cozy/p003-re...log-5-2nd-gear

[Dosturbos]

Question is your car an Auto or a manual? Because my car is AT and it definitely needs the in-person tuning to get rid of some of the quirks that an MT car would not suffer from.
The boost pressure sensor behaves strangely in an AT and I feel like hands on tuning is most important. I take it there are no cobb pro-tuners in your area?

[Cozy]

Mine is manual. There is one Pro-Tuner in the UK but they're no associated with PTF. I actually picked PTF over those guys because of PTF's amazing rep, where as the only BMW Pro-tuner is primarily a GTR outlet.

[Dosturbos]

why do GTR's get to have all the fun?
Might be worth talking to your local cobb pro tuner if stuff doesn't work out.
A good tuner who is in your car with you while road tuning can usually figure out what's up pretty quickly.

[Cozy]

I know man. They're like 200miles away but all the money I've spent in fuel over the last 2mths or more going through 12 map revisions would have paid for that.

If I really can't get this done with PTF I'll be annoyed, because I know it can be done, but I'll have no choice to ditch this and go to the Pro-tuner.

[GoodtoGo]

I have the exact same issue with my PTF Stage 2+ tune as the OP describes and I've been trying to track down the reason. Seems to happen most when cruising around between 40 to 50 mph in a high gear (4,5, 6) and you get on the throttle for some moderate acceleration, but not enough that should require a downshift. Seems like the car struggles and goes through some RPM surges which eventually subsides when you get to higher RPMs. Problem does not happen if you downshift to a lower gear.

Took a look at Cozy's logs. Looks like you captured something interesting on log 5, but would probably see this more easily in a higher gear. There is an overboost between 3500 and 4500 RPM of 2-3 psi. Looks safe, because there are no timing corrections. Actual load is under the load target, but there is a huge throttle closure from 80% down to 30+ %. I think that is the issue and it seems that the throttle might be hunting in some situations to produce the hesitations. Its is easiest to have an overboost at low speed, high load conditions, but there is way too aggressive of a throttle closure correction.

I'm hoping that PTF could chime in here as others have indicated they have this issue.

[Jake@MOTIV]

Shoot me an email referring to this thread and reference your forum name and I'll get back to you. I've had my in laws hate all week and brought child's up from Florida with them. Perfect on the visit to see their 2 month old grand daughter. I will be playing major catch up this evening and weekend.

[Cozy]

Originally Posted by Jake@PTF

Shoot me an email referring to this thread and refere[u2b][/u2b]n[u2b][/u2b]ce your forum name and I'll get back to you. I've had my in laws hate all week and brought child's up from Florida with them. Perfect on the visit to see their 2 month old grand daughter. I will be playing major catch up this evening and weekend.

Hi Jake,

Not sure if you are refering to me or GoodtoGo but I shot you an email on Thursday regarding the issue in the latest map with logs attached capturing the nasty bstard timing pull.

I understand family so no worries.get back to me as soon as you can but until then I'm going back to the OTS map.

[Griff500]

Did you solve this Cozy?

[Cozy]

Originally Posted by Griff500

Did you solve this Cozy?

Sorry for the late reply.

No, it was never solved but the moral of the story, for me, is that I'll only ever head to a shop for a tune from now on. There was an issue somewhere that PTF couldn't see remotely or me, physically. It would have been great to work it out face to face with the car there but that wasn't possible as I'm In another country.

PTF worked hard and by the last map things were at their best but ultimately we both gave up which is a shame as we were on track however, it had been months of tuning. I changed plugs, full service, walnut blast, injectors, both fuel pumps and a water pump so where I could go from there I don't know.
the car just seemed to spike boost and then the car would severely retard the timing.

I solved it in the end by going to a Cobb shop where they were able to dial everything out on the dyno. It didn't feel as fast as the PTF map but the car was happy with a little less power. I'm not really willing to bad mouth anyone or the car as it is what it is, and perhaps there was some flaw that we all overlooked which required some intense diagnostics, not what I paid PTF to do at all, they were paid to tune.

All in all it was money wasted for me, time wasted for PTF but a lesson learned.

I sold the car in the end as I'd had a good run with it and now reside with a C63 coupe.
In case anyone is wondering my FBO 1er was equally as fast due to less weight. I love the V8 though, it's addictive but it needs a tune and exhaust to pull cleanly on a good N54...and a bit of a diet.

I dare say I'll be back in a BMW in a couple of years once the M4 is tried and tested as that thing is just epic even stock.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by Cozy

I sold the car in the end as I'd had a good run with it and now reside with a C63 coupe.
In case anyone is wondering my FBO 1er was equally as fast due to less weight. I love the V8 though, it's addictive but it needs a tune and exhaust to pull cleanly on a good N54...and a bit of a diet.

Not at all a bad platform switch. The M156 V8 is a true Euro Muscle motor, loves simple bolt-ons and REALLY loves boost. Hit up Weistec, a simple tune + exhaust/headers package should help you pick up an extra 130 WHP/110 WTQ on pump gas, anon addition to the incredible exhaust note.