[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by down4it

Dont be a girl and keep things quiet, in america we have the freedom of speech...

I said it is not recommended to run the JB2HR on 91oct... It is also recommended by Vishnu to not run the Procede At higher than 92% on 91oct as well... Anything else fanboy?

That's incorrect....it's the boost levels over 15psi that he said to watch out for.
I've been running 94% on crappy 91 octane for a while now.

I agree with Malekreza11, just don't want to get stupid back and forths going. The OP has a wealth of info here on E90post to make a decision on which product to choose.

[john0213]

i don't think a tuner war is needed again.... after all, we went through a bunch of crap like this and the ending wasn't even justified.

the paid sponsor tuner got the hand, the person who didn't pay need to go~

anyways, it's really up to the OP, yours, judgment to which one you should go.

If you find that you have more confident with Procede, then go for it.

From my impression, i just felt like JB has a better business ethic that the owner takes more care to his clients.

I don't know who throws more limp mode. From my search, it seems like procede has more problem.

but of course, i also do not know which one sells much more, cuz the one that sell the most will definitely get more problem, I am still clear of this point and am taking this point in for consideration too.

[t0eknee_C]

hrmm.. looks like its not such an easy decision after all. Il just search some more. but thanks guys for the help.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by down4it

Dont be a girl and keep things quiet, in america we have the freedom of speech...

I said it is not recommended to run the JB2HR on 91oct... It is also recommended by Vishnu to not run the Procede At higher than 92% on 91oct as well... Anything else fanboy?

I don't know why you are calling me a "fanboy" when in fact I don't know anything about the Vishnu company, nor do I own a PROcede or anything. Have some class before you start the name calling bro. I would appreciate that.

Keeping things quiet is not being a girl. Its following the rules. If I come on here revealing who I am, I will most likely be banned. I choose not to get banned because my 335i will be hear soon and I enjoy visiting forums. I can very well tell you how to build whatever you like for your car, and all the supporting vendors will be greatly upset, and I am not one to step on another companies toes to make myself and my company look better. I don't need to put other's down to bring myself up.

All this talk about Vishnu says don't use the PROcede at more than 92%, to me shows your lack of tuning intelligence. NO car is built identically to another and thus "92%" on one car may mean 16 PSI and another "92%" could mean 13 psi of boost. Boost levels are not the most important things in tuning a car, and I mentioned it earlier to you already. IGNITION TIMING is the most CRUCIAL AND IMPORTANT aspect of tuning an engine, especially a high-comp FI engine. A poor timing map can destroy an engine in a matter of 1-2 seconds. Prolonged exposure to un-ideal timing figures will prematurely wear down your motor, from spark plugs to cylinder walls. I am not knocking your "JB......." whatever tune you have, but raising boost pressure and adding a little fuel is not going to save your motor. You can have an AFR of 10.5 across the board with 8 PSI of boost on your N54 motor and poor timing figures can destroy the whole thing in seconds.

Raising your boost levels without revising your ignition timing maps and solely relying on the ECU and knock sensors to adjust and compensate timing is actually a very dangerous tuning technique. This method is actually called "knock induced tuning" and is used by many incompetent tuners. I am not calling your tune incompetent, so before you make a ridiculous statement and call me a "fanboy" and possibly complain to Terry about what I said, please try to understand the message first. I actually have much respect for Terry because he is a decent guy. He did my friend a very small favor he didn't have to and it speaks a lot about a person's character.

Start reading a couple books on tuning, how an engine works. I recommend literature from Alexander Bell, Corky Bell and I can mention a couple others if you are interested. Maximum Boost is a pretty decent book too. That's just a start. Then actually start tuning cars (100's of them), start playing with 500, 600, 700 and so on RWHP , start flying around the country to tune other car's in different climates and so on to get a grasp at how weather, altitude and earth conditions affect a tune. After all that, get back to me.

Thank you.

[Lane]

I have read those books before many of you were born. That tells a lot of how much the people relaying on them can understand modern ECUs and ignition timing. Ignition timing is taken care by DME. The process is called adaptation. All tunes utilize DME in adjusting the timing.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by Lane

I have read those books before many of you were born. That tells a lot of how much the people relaying on them can understand modern ECUs and ignition timing. Ignition timing is taken care by DME. The process is called adaptation. All tunes utilize DME in adjusting the timing.

Read what I said above. The whole thing...

Relying on the "DME" to adjust timing when you have raised boost is induced timing compensation. Yes of course the ignition timing is done by the ECU, thats nothing special about this car. Its been around for many many years already.

The car is adapting because it's sensing knock, thus is attempting to adapt. Timing maps are 3D and advance, retard and back and forth based on driving conditions, weather, fuel quality and so on. It doesnt take minutes to damage an engine, it takes seconds.

When i first joined this site, I clearly asked Vishnu and another company that deals with piggybacks what they do about the ignition timing. Vishnu replied that they modify the CPS signal to adjust timing. Its basically like the modern way of how old schoolers used to adjust timing by playing and skewing the distributor. But with a micro-controller system, you can tell it when and how much.

[Lane]

Originally Posted by Malekreza11

Yes of course the ignition timing is done by the ECU,

Exactly

Modifying CPS signal merely provides boundaries. DME learns the optimum ignition timing space for the octane and air density within the set (or altered) boundaries. For safety, limp is induced if the lower boundary is met.

The granularity of the DME's ability is a lot more advanced than anything a few years back.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by Lane

Exactly

Modifying CPS signal merely provides boundaries. DME learns the optimum ignition timing space for the octane and air density within the set (or altered) boundaries. For safety, limp is induced if the lower boundary is met.

The granularity of the DME's ability is a lot more advanced than anything a few years back.

I completely agree. The ECU does learn optimum ignition curves and adapts to conditions. It does it as it sees fit.

What we must do create additional safety is to piggyback and skew the car to run in a safer threshold.

An Adaptive/Dynamic timing system is nothing new.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Have fun with your "dumb" tune then.

Dumb tunes FTW! (and the current record 1/4 mile time)

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Railgun

I didn't buy the thing to squeeze a faster 1/4 mile time out of it. That's rediculous. If I was looking for that, I sure as hell wouldn't have picked up a BMW.

Errr...ok....

I am not saying the ONLY reason you bought a 335i was to have a crazy quarter mile time...

Relax a little bit man. If you can dish it out then you should be able to take it as well....

One question, do you buy a tune based on the hype or based on results?

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Ok.

That's pretty stupid in my book. Have fun with your "dumb" tune then.

For the sake of argument, and to further derail the hell out of this thread, care to justify that? Cause, I'm a pretty smart guy, and I sure as hell like the idea of features. So, that said, you've indirectly called many people stupid, and I think that your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Don't mind him bro. He thinks I am stupid too and resorted to name calling.

[scalbert]

Hrmm, Nitrous can make a tremendous amount of power for little $$. Seems like that may be a good option for those looking at power only.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Well...figure the system itself isn't exactly cheap, and there's a requirement to renew the supply. Not to mention the complexity of the system and its control.

A general purpose EFI nitrous system is only about $600 and a bottle refill is onloy about $30.

BTW, that wasn't the point.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by t0eknee_C

hrmm.. looks like its not such an easy decision after all. Il just search some more. but thanks guys for the help.

This is your best bet.