[cn555ic]

Helix new design seems to have better bends than the old design, but IMO I still think having a tall FMIC which the top part never sees direct air flow because it is covered by the bumper is less efficient than a thicker FMIC which almost all the fins gets DIRECT air flow....Thats why I chose the HPF because of its design and quality..

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Helix has by far the worse endtanks I have ever seen. Simply apply common sense when looking at the desgin of that intercooler......People who spend money on something will always tell you their brand is the best.



Seriously? Would you rather have airflow going through bends or 90 degree angles? Whats up with the outlet/inlet pipes simple welded to the center of a block? Its simply horrible and yet people who don't know any better believe marketing bs and say omg its the bestest eva! Think.

Incase you lack common sense, here are some facts
http://www.dvdtfab.com/intercoolertestlab.pdf

#1 that is our original design and its a casting the inlet and outlet tubes were not welded on, we have since revised the design with:
- a much more rounded endtank
- bellmouthed inlet and outlet tubes(inside the casting the tubes bellmouth into the plenum)
- Bullnose(half round) header and charge row bars to increase flow with less resistance through the ambient and charge row sides, round face bars are commonly known to the be an advantage of a tube and fin intercooler over a bar and plate, we have engineered extruded bullnose bars in our bar and plate core!
- we have also opened up the inlet and outlet tubes with a modest venturi!

here are our engineering pics:




here is an actual pic of the finished unit:


We have never exclusively used in house data in our marketing, we have used our customer posted datalogs to back up and exactly match what we claim. we also use end user reviews and information Shiv has given us when he tested the Helix against several other aftermarket intercoolers, the Helix came out on top in regards to ait reduction, resistance to heatsoak and pressure drop. heres some quotes from Shiv:

“I've been testing the Helix FMIC and it keeps IATs within a couple degrees of ambient. Pretty ridiculous. In a good way, of course. And it doesn't block too much of the radiator either. That would be my recommendation.”
Shiv

“I've tested 3 different aftermarket FMICs in my car and the Helix unit performed the best in terms of cooling efficiency and pressure loss. I don't see things getting much better than that to be honest.”
Shiv

over the past years we have sold several hundred FMICs with 40+ of the latest design going out in the next 2 weeks, and you'd be hardpressed to find unhappy end users, seems to me the only people with an axe to grind are those that don't own it and think they are Intercooling Engineers OR other companies who cant beat us on the real merits of the FMIC performance in regards to ait control-resistance to heat soak and pressure drop!
its really easy to say it looks strange(yes its different) and that the thinner front section will be hard to get airflow to, but how is our thinner front section any different in regards to feeding the upper columns than lets say a thinner taller intercooler such as Active intercooler?

I developed the step core idea over 3 years ago realizing that alot of unused ambient space was left on the table,what we accomplished with this design on the 335i is an ambient face 56% larger than stock and stock height aftermarket coolers and an exposed ambient face(the exposed intercooler above the factory plastic cowl) sometimes 80% larger! Whats funny is our intercoolers have become the industry standard ancd target in both the BMW and Mini markets, all happy customers and pissed off competitors!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Helix new design seems to have better bends than the old design, but IMO I still think having a tall FMIC which the top part never sees direct air flow because it is covered by the bumper is less efficient than a thicker FMIC which almost all the fins gets DIRECT air flow....Thats why I chose the HPF because of its design and quality..

#1 fwiw the helix FMIC is fully exposed to the oncoming air, none of it is hidden behind the upper bumper!



#2 It is common intercooling knowledge that a taller thinner intercooler is more efficient than a shorter thicker intercooler, most of the ambient cooling is done on the 1st 1/3 of the thickness from the face. our lower thicker section is the same height as the HPF and most other factory height aftermarket FMICs so that part is exposed to the same airflow, our thinner upper section which adds 56% more ambient face is also exposed to ambient air flow as the picture shows. this section adds 5 more charge rows so please explain to me from an engineering standpoint how a 56% shorter intercooler(area to be cooled) with 56% less ambient air exposure(cooling medium) can be more efficient?

[Clap135]

the above is one of those poeple. When I brought this up before, I was pretty much told to stfu, it works great. Now the redisgned it and it does look better then the original, however it still looks like shit compared to the others.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Clap135

the above is one of those poeple. When I brought this up before, I was pretty much told to stfu, it works great. Now the redisgned it and it does look better then the original, however it still looks like shit compared to the others.

I agree the new redesign one looks better but IMO it still doesn't compare anything to my HPF intercooler!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Clap135

the above is one of those poeple. When I brought this up before, I was pretty much told to stfu, it works great. Now the redisgned it and it does look better then the original, however it still looks like shit compared to the others.

seriously what axe do you have to grind with Helix? becuase i cant believe your constant attacks on multiple forums as nothing more than personal. The helix FMIC does work great(better than any other I have seen) and there is not once ounce of data, independant tuner data or end user response that proves otherwise. I live in South Jersey and am more than willing to meet up and do a back to back test against any intercooler you wish, you can run all the equipment so no one can cry foul.

[timtech]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

#1 that is our original design and its a casting the inlet and outlet tubes were not welded on, we have since revised the design with:
- a much more rounded endtank
- bellmouthed inlet and outlet tubes(inside the casting the tubes bellmouth into the plenum)
- Bullnose(half round) header and charge row bars to increase flow with less resistance through the ambient and charge row sides, round face bars are commonly known to the be an advantage of a tube and fin intercooler over a bar and plate, we have engineered extruded bullnose bars in our bar and plate core!
- we have also opened up the inlet and outlet tubes with a modest venturi!

How much cutting is involved with the newer version? Is it still just the small lip?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by timtech

How much cutting is involved with the newer version? Is it still just the small lip?

with the changes we made we are hoping for 0 cutting, guys will start to recieve theirs this week so we will know in the next few days! in the previous designs only a small % of cars needed to trim to fit!

[Clap135]

I have no axe to grind against helix, I just have a low tolerance for marketing bs. I do not go into your helix threads, this is a general fmic thread. You say the helix is the best one you have seen? How many did you see? Its CLEARLY obvious other end tank designs flow much better. AMS, cpe, hpf, code 3 just to name a few.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Clap135

I have no axe to grind against helix, I just have a low tolerance for marketing bs. I do not go into your helix threads, this is a general fmic thread. You say the helix is the best one you have seen? How many did you see? Its CLEARLY obvious other end tank designs flow much better. AMS, cpe, hpf, code 3 just to name a few.

How's it so "clear"....I hate marketing hype as well but to say one "clearly" flows better than the other, you must have some concrete proof backed by your independent testing..do you?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by dzenno

How's it so "clear"....I hate marketing hype as well but to say one "clearly" flows better than the other, you must have some concrete proof backed by your independent testing..do you?

read the link I posted then compare end tank design.

[Trojan4evr]

So far, I have my mind set on HPF

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Clap135

I have no axe to grind against helix, I just have a low tolerance for marketing bs. I do not go into your helix threads, this is a general fmic thread. You say the helix is the best one you have seen? How many did you see? Its CLEARLY obvious other end tank designs flow much better. AMS, cpe, hpf, code 3 just to name a few.

how do you know they flow better please post the data, Im thinking the added upper section is affecting your thought process, I understand that its differnent and to some people may look strange, gieven the space I had to work with the endtank HAS to be shaped that way! BUT it does add 5 more charge rows, it does add 56% more frontal area and it does get equal distribution of airflow as we tested it with laser temp scanners under load...

where is marketing BS? We show our customers independant datalogs in our GB thread and elsewhere! I have seen datalogs of many of the aftermarket intercoolers they are posted on the fmic thread Helix clearly has the best ait temp reduction through gears. Shivs independant back to back testing verifies this against 2 of the available aftermarket intercoolers.

I am willing to back all of this up, you are local if you want to we can test the helix against any aftermarket intercooler you chose Im willing to put up $500 that the Helix wins in regards to AIT temp reduction over 2-3-4 gear, pressure drop and resistance to heatsoak all 3 criteria will be weighed equally and the best score wins, you can hold the computer or whatever you feel is neccesary to not cry foul... I know its a futile effort trying to get you to change your OPINION but please answer the folowing scenarios:

-You have already stated rounded endtanks are better than square ones, I agree as well.

-Do you agree rounded(tube and fin style) bars are better for airflow through the ambient side of the core than the flat bars on a bar and plate intercooler?

-Do you agree rounded bars are better for airflow direction and pressure drop through the charge side of the core than the flat bars on a bar and plate intercooler?

-Do you agree that a taller thinner intercooler fully exposed to ambient air is better for temp reduction and resistance to heat soak than a shorter thicker intercooler of the same volume?

-Do You agree that a 2.25" ID outlet tube is superior to utilizing the factory connectors that shrink down to 1.75"ID at the entrance of the factory O-ring connections?

-Do you think that adding size to an intercooler below the BMW factory plastic cowl(not in direct airflow) is superior to adding size in an area of more direct airflow?

-Do you think that you can utilize a better core in regards to internal and external fin counts through testing vs using an off the shelf core simply because it fits?

Looking forward to your opinions on these questions, If you are a true student of Intercooler Theory I already know the answers

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Clap135

read the link I posted then compare end tank design.

in regards to our inlets and outlets on the Helix inside the casting they are bellmouthed(rounded) at the entry(diffusor) and Exit(collector). I will see if I can get some pics of the inside of the casting!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by dzenno

How's it so "clear"....I hate marketing hype as well but to say one "clearly" flows better than the other, you must have some concrete proof backed by your independent testing..do you?

does it make you wonder why no one wants to take me up on back to back testing? "They" would rather put up a smokescreen... If its so superior lets prove it!

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Its CLEARLY obvious other end tank designs flow much better.

Can we see your engineering data / testing / proof?

I don't really sell the Helix - we most deal with the AMS and Forge units, but the guys at Helix seem to be pretty stand-up, I don't see (a) the reason for this bashing or (b) any concrete data to support it. I have seen plenty of data from both Helix and others showing that the Helix IC seems to perform very well.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by ar design

Can we see your engineering data / testing / proof?

I don't really sell the Helix - we most deal with the AMS and Forge units, but the guys at Helix seem to be pretty stand-up, I don't see (a) the reason for this bashing or (b) any concrete data to support it. I have seen plenty of data from both Helix and others showing that the Helix IC seems to perform very well.

the reason is we are selling 100's of intercoolers, all the independant data of our clients matches our claims. we have no unhappy customers as a matter of fact many of our customers have switched from other FMICs to ours. Bottom line is we are eating into their sales and rather than beat us at the game they create smokescreens and opinion to dissuade some people to their side...talk about BS Marketing LOL!

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

does it make you wonder why no one wants to take me up on back to back testing? "They" would rather put up a smokescreen... If its so superior lets prove it!

Why the hell would I take u up on any sort of testing? Am I selling something here or getting something in return for going against helix? No Am i promoting a specific intercooler? No I have a list of the first 4 that are better due to end tank design. I don't care which one the user goes with.

As far as the data, like I said, aside from sales people, people with a little backround information know what they are looking at.
Showing a bunch of IAT graphs mean nothing, also quoting shiv means nothing as well. Would you like me to quote Terry where he says the hpf endtanks imo look and flow better? Who cares who shiv or terry have to say. Basic flow desgin, smooth or 90 degree angles? Which one do you perfer? According to you I should buy some 3 inch plumbing pipes and weld them together at 90 degree angles for superior flow surpassed by no other exhaust. Where is the data that backs up your claims of the helix end tanks flowing better then whatever you have tested? What have you seen? You still didn't answer this one. Proof of tests? Proof of pressure drop? You know something aside from a usless procede log

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Why the hell would I take u up on any sort of testing? Am I selling something here or getting something in return for going against helix? No

Then why are you wasting so much time? wouldnt you really like to know if your "Theory" you are spouting about on here holds any water? CMON man you cant spend hours on here posting your opinion and not really want to know especially since you can win an easy $500 with a superior design LMAO...on this note I am officially done



But before I go care to answer the questions?

-You have already stated rounded endtanks are better than square ones, I agree as well.

-Do you agree rounded(tube and fin style) bars are better for airflow through the ambient side of the core than the flat bars on a bar and plate intercooler?

-Do you agree rounded bars are better for airflow direction and pressure drop through the charge side of the core than the flat bars on a bar and plate intercooler?

-Do you agree that a taller thinner intercooler fully exposed to ambient air is better for temp reduction and resistance to heat soak than a shorter thicker intercooler of the same volume?

-Do You agree that a 2.25" ID outlet tube is superior to utilizing the factory connectors that shrink down to 1.75"ID at the entrance of the factory O-ring connections?

-Do you think that adding size to an intercooler below the BMW factory plastic cowl(not in direct airflow) is superior to adding size in an area of more direct airflow?

-Do you think that you can utilize a better core in regards to internal and external fin counts through testing vs using an off the shelf core simply because it fits?

Looking forward to your opinions on these questions, If you are a true student of Intercooler Theory I already know the answers

[Clap135]

I am not wasting anyone's time but yours. Your intercooler goes against the law of physics according to you. Ill post this again incase you missed it.

Theory? Realise you are talking to someone who deals with physics on a daily basis. It pays the bills.

http://www.dvdtfab.com/intercoolertestlab.pdf


BTW all your questions are cute, here is one that will put all those to shame.
Do you realize that the biggest restriction in airflow comes from endtanks, not the core?

Your stepped car might spark intrest. You state it gets airflow, Do you have a picture showing your IC installed with the bumper on?
LIke state before, ait are only a part of equation, pressure drop/flow imo is the bigger factor. Please post data showing these pressure drop/flow tests?

[stealth-twntrbo]

Th..

[Spydeputy]

lI Love My Helix !!!

Literally shaved 1/4" X 2" piece off the drivers side inside shroud, and that was ALL.

Hey OP, Anything is better than stock. Hope you will be happy w/ any choice.