[Penn999]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

That is a beautiful graph !!! The torque comes up quick and is flat near the peak for over 3500 rpms. Oh, and the HP doesn't drop off up top. Which turbo upgrade did this ?

LOL look at the title of the thread...

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by forza1976

Not to beat a dead horse... but didn't we have a thread recently that noted corrected numbers for the dynojet are not applicable to FI cars?

I think we should be looking at uncorrected numbers on these cars to be fair.

*** The following pulled from another thread ***

"The correction factors that we use in our dynamometer software are not
valid with forced induction applications. The most popular correction
factor, SAE CFJ1349 JUN90 and J1995 JUN95, does not account for the
conditions present in boosted applications. Atmospheric pressure is the
major component of this calculation, and anything that varies from the
standard (29.235 inHg) can easily be corrected for NA applications. When
you are forcing an "artificial atmosphere" into your motor, these
standards go out the window.

Technically any boosted car should be viewed as uncorrected if you want
to compare apples to apples. If we had a correction factor that just
took into account temperature and humidity, that may make things easier
to compare in boosted applications. If you are forcing 1 atmosphere
(14.7 psi) in your motor at 6,000 feet, or 1 atmosphere at 100 feet,
that's really the same difference.................IF you are measuring
manifold ABSOLUTE pressure, it's absolute, don't rely on a standard
boost gauge to give you an absolute value.

Regards,
----------------
Dan Hourigan"

The "corrections-don't-apply" rule only applies to the atmospheric/altitude correction component. So if you are dyno testing at sea level, the only correction you are seeing is for temp and humidity which is reasonably accurate.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Penn999

It didnt list the psi...lol I think it was over 20psi but i could be wrong. I will call ASR and see what they are up to sometime today...If they made 540whp at 18psi I might need to reconsider my turbo upgrade.

~540whp was at 20-21psi if I remember correctly. And it was a "glory run" (super aggressive map after a lot of cool down) so it's probably not something that your going to see in normal dyno conditions. I recall 500-510whp being repeatable. This was pretty close to the limits of the fuel system (factory fuel components plus m10 meth nozzle) and what seemed to be the limit of the turbo. If you are looking for a 500+whp turbo set up and don't mind more lag, a big single is probably going to be the way to go.

[Slidewayz]

Originally Posted by Penn999

LOL look at the title of the thread...

Thx. Hey, it's Friday after a brutal, brutal week !

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

~540whp was at 20-21psi if I remember correctly. And it was a "glory run" (super aggressive map after a lot of cool down) so it's probably not something that your going to see in normal dyno conditions. I recall 500-510whp being repeatable. This was pretty close to the limits of the fuel system (factory fuel components plus m10 meth nozzle) and what seemed to be the limit of the turbo. If you are looking for a 500+whp turbo set up and don't mind more lag, a big single is probably going to be the way to go.

Yup, thats what I remember hearing. I dont however know about the repeatable figure. Shiv, I know AR is using the standback for their single turbo set up. 1) do you think you will be able to support this upgrade as well? 2) Have you talked to HPF on who is going to support their single turbo upgrade? I think im gonna need ya on atleast on of those set ups by mid next year...

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

Thx. Hey, it's Friday after a brutal, brutal week !

haha I agree, im still trying to recover from last night...(note to self, dont drink more than 3 big glasses of wine, the hangover is almost unbearable)

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

~540whp was at 20-21psi if I remember correctly. And it was a "glory run" (super aggressive map after a lot of cool down) so it's probably not something that your going to see in normal dyno conditions. I recall 500-510whp being repeatable. This was pretty close to the limits of the fuel system (factory fuel components plus m10 meth nozzle) and what seemed to be the limit of the turbo. If you are looking for a 500+whp turbo set up and don't mind more lag, a big single is probably going to be the way to go.

500-550whp max with instant spool reliably for a race setup with an upgraded fuel system is exactly what I'm looking for for now at least..

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The "corrections-don't-apply" rule only applies to the atmospheric/altitude correction component. So if you are dyno testing at sea level, the only correction you are seeing is for temp and humidity which is reasonably accurate.

Hmm... I just read it different and took away that correction factors should not be used for any FI application. That was his first sentance.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by dzenno

500-550whp max with instant spool reliably for a race setup with an upgraded fuel system is exactly what I'm looking for for now at least..

+1, now you just need to find a clutch that will support it...lol; did you ever find out if the clutch/flywheel were defective?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by forza1976

Hmm... I just read it different and took away that correction factors should not be used for any FI application. That was his first sentance.

Yes but the reasoning that followed addressed the problem having to do with barometric compensation. Ie, the fact turbos pressurize the intake independent of baro pressure. Which makes the baro correction that the dyno applies an unnecessary correction. So if you are dyno testing at sea level, you aren't getting much (if any) of an baro correction. So no such bad correction. Which is why this dyno probably has a reasonable 1.06-07 correction while the mile-high AR dyno had an unreasonable 1.25%.

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes but the reasoning that followed addressed the problem having to do with barometric compensation. Ie, the fact turbos pressurize the intake independent of baro pressure. Which makes the baro correction that the dyno applies an unnecessary correction. So if you are dyno testing at sea level, you aren't getting much (if any) of an baro correction. So no such bad correction. Which is why this dyno probably has a reasonable 1.06-07 correction while the mile-high AR dyno had an unreasonable 1.25%.

Ok thanks for the clarification Shiv.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Yup, thats what I remember hearing. I dont however know about the repeatable figure. Shiv, I know AR is using the standback for their single turbo set up. 1) do you think you will be able to support this upgrade as well? 2) Have you talked to HPF on who is going to support their single turbo upgrade? I think im gonna need ya on atleast on of those set ups by mid next year...

As far as our tune is concerned, controlling a single turbo is no different than controlling the factory twins. So it will work with any turbo system. I believe there is another single turbo option coming out in the next several months as well (other than HPF). It will boil down to picking the turbo kit you want and then picking the most appropriate tune you want. I don't see them necessarily going hand-in-hand other than for marketing/sales reasons.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by kennejp

This is all priceless! This looks almost the same as the helix upgrade everyone was dogging the numbers bc it didnt have a procede tune yada yada and this is higher boost levels and making less power and everyone is saying it looks good. Talk about FANBOI'S!!!

Problem is most of the fanbois and nuthuggers dont know a thing, like how to interpret a dyno, its actual WHP (given correction factors), how tunes work, and like to hate on things just cause they are on a bandwagon.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

As far as our tune is concerned, controlling a single turbo is no different than controlling the factory twins. So it will work with any turbo system. I believe there is another single turbo option coming out in the next several months as well (other than HPF). It will boil down to picking the turbo kit you want and then picking the most appropriate tune you want. I don't see them necessarily going hand-in-hand other than for marketing/sales reasons.

I should be receiving your tune today...I would really rather not spend another $1k when I decide to upgrade the turbos next year is what I was asking..the choice has already been made. To clairify my question will you have single turbo specific maps or will this be a totally custom tune per the actual turbo I choose?

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Problem is most of the fanbois and nuthuggers dont know a thing, like how to interpret a dyno, its actual WHP (given correction factors), how tunes work, and like to hate on things just cause they are on a bandwagon.

Who were you directing this comment toward?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I should be receiving your tune today...I would really rather not spend another $1k when I decide to upgrade the turbos next year is what I was asking..the choice has already been made. To clairify my question will you have single turbo specific maps or will this be a totally custom tune per the actual turbo I choose?

By then we should have single turbo maps. But frankly, our "upgrade turbo" maps that we have right now should probably suffice after adjusting the global boost dc gain value (to accommdate the wastegate spring pressure). The PID control system we use for the factory wastegates should be similar to what you would use with a conventional pressure actuated external wastegate. But we'll probably be running a single turbo in our 335 sometime next year so everything should be good to go before too long.

In all the twin turbo street cars I've owned, I've never mad the jump to a big single. I'm excited

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Who were you directing this comment toward?

Anyone that is a fanboi, nuthugger, doesnt know how tunes work, or doesnt understands dynos, or stuck on stupid. (nobody directly)

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Anyone that is a fanboi, nuthugger, doesnt know how tunes work, or doesnt understands dynos, or stuck on stupid. (nobody directly)

ok cool, just checking.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Penn999

+1, now you just need to find a clutch that will support it...lol; did you ever find out if the clutch/flywheel were defective?

working on it

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by dzenno

working on it

I hope they take care of you, the worst part about the whole thing is the down time...that would kill me. I would be going through speed withdrawals lol. I hope you have another daily driver

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I hope they take care of you, the worst part about the whole thing is the down time...that would kill me. I would be going through speed withdrawals lol. I hope you have another daily driver

tell me about withdrawals i've got my sisters 2003 mazda protege lol

[mycoupe]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I should be receiving your tune today...I would really rather not spend another $1k when I decide to upgrade the turbos next year is what I was asking..the choice has already been made. To clairify my question will you have single turbo specific maps or will this be a totally custom tune per the actual turbo I choose?

You obviously haven't read/understood the AR threads about their kit. It is not going to come withOUT their standback and the appropriate software and maps for their kit.

Besides, if it were as easy as using your autotune procede that is based around a completely different set up, then EVERYONE would have already had a manifold, downpipe, and intake fab'd and be running big singles!!!