[HighlandPete]

I follow what is being said and do understand a bunch of rubber is getting between the input and final reaction. I'm thinking... what are the other variables? Are you on different tyres/wheel sizes than the earlier cars?

The possible joker... you are not getting DSC intervention on one rear wheel are you? Have you tried the same moves with DSC off, just to see if that is a part of the unsettled delay.

Without seeing a graph of the damper performance of early and late cars, it is hard to know what is different, the valving could be tuned to initially respond more slowly, to help the run-flats. Translates to a bit of slackness and the feel of roll... only thinking out loud, but worn dampers do a similar thing.

HighlandPete

[doughboy]

NFS

Re the rear, that is essentialy what I noticed when I got the new tourer, except I think it was probably worse for me as the tourer is heavier out back, higher c of g and 1mm thinner rear ARB. Coming from the same E90 330i as you, it was a shocker.

I replaced the rear bushes and uprated the rear ARB considerably (the Hartge set has a much ticker rear 21mm I think)

This now keeps the front/rear roll in balance and you don't get nearly as bad an 'oscillation' that you mention unless you try to induce it. For example a quick 'S' bend can be done with a nice flick of the wrist and no need to catch an untidy wobble on the way out.

The non M E9x has always used the same soft rear subframe bushes from 2005, so it can't all be blamed on those.

Ultimately it must be damping i suppose, not able to control the vehicle mass in the way we want. I know its a compromise, but there are different compromises that could have been reached by BMW.

A few people here seem to live in the wilds whereas others, probably more by virtue of the town/country population, use mainly fairly decent A roads.

If BMW were aiming to satisfy the main-roaders then I think they have failed and erred on the side of caution/comfort.

I suppose they would say 'buy our performance suspension sir'

[NFS]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I follow what is being said and do understand a bunch of rubber is getting between the input and final reaction. I'm thinking... what are the other variables? Are you on different tyres/wheel sizes than the earlier cars?

The possible joker... you are not getting DSC intervention on one rear wheel are you? Have you tried the same moves with DSC off, just to see if that is a part of the unsettled delay.

Without seeing a graph of the damper performance of early and late cars, it is hard to know what is different, the valving could be tuned to initially respond more slowly, to help the run-flats. Translates to a bit of slackness and the feel of roll... only thinking out loud, but worn dampers do a similar thing.

HighlandPete

The 330i was on Bridgestone RFT's, then Vredestein non RFT's.

The 335i is on Michelin RFT's.

Other than that, all things are equal.

The ride on the 335i is as good or better than the 330i on Vredesteins. This makes me certain that the suspension has been changed and fairly sure that the objective was a more compliant ride.

When I changed the tyres on the 330i I noticed it leaning over more in the bends. The 335i feels similar to that, but with the addition of this looseness or slop in the movement of the rear of the car at higher speeds.

The rear suspension is 'giving' under load then slowly returning the vehicle to a neutral stance. The old suspension 'gave less' and returned to neutral faster.

Does that sound like dampers?

Originally Posted by doughboy

NFS

Re the rear, that is essentialy what I noticed when I got the new tourer, except I think it was probably worse for me as the tourer is heavier out back, higher c of g and 1mm thinner rear ARB. Coming from the same E90 330i as you, it was a shocker.

I replaced the rear bushes and uprated the rear ARB considerably (the Hartge set has a much ticker rear 21mm I think)

This now keeps the front/rear roll in balance and you don't get nearly as bad an 'oscillation' that you mention unless you try to induce it. For example a quick 'S' bend can be done with a nice flick of the wrist and no need to catch an untidy wobble on the way out.

The non M E9x has always used the same soft rear subframe bushes from 2005, so it can't all be blamed on those.

Ultimately it must be damping i suppose, not able to control the vehicle mass in the way we want. I know its a compromise, but there are different compromises that could have been reached by BMW.

A few people here seem to live in the wilds whereas others, probably more by virtue of the town/country population, use mainly fairly decent A roads.

If BMW were aiming to satisfy the main-roaders then I think they have failed and erred on the side of caution/comfort.

I suppose they would say 'buy our performance suspension sir'

This is only ever really present at speed when quickly changing lane. It's not intrusive, but once you've noticed the issue it just doesn't feel as good as I remember. I don't think it would slow the car at all, but I would have to do a track day to be sure about how it would respond near the limit. My concern is that unwanted weight shifting mid corner can never be a good thing.

I don't want a car for prestige or luxury. I want something that fits a family, but goes like a sports car. Sounds to me as if BMW have moved to far toward the comfort / luxury buyer.

So, as you say, I now need to buy performance suspension to get what was originally included in the car as part of the list price.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by NFS

So, as you say, I now need to buy performance suspension to get what was originally included in the car as part of the list price.

The performance kit has the obvious warranty benefit and it retails at £400 plus the springs, so about 700 all in from BMW - not bad IMO.

4 Springs (car specific), 4 dampers (fixed type for all), bumpstops and front ARB.

But more oddly it comes only with an uprated FRONT ARB, this is wierd as that can only mean it ADDS more understeer to an already front biased setup.

Oh dear.... is the modding bug in danger of being caught?

[NFS]

Originally Posted by doughboy

The performance kit has the obvious warranty benefit and it retails at £400 plus the springs, so about 700 all in from BMW - not bad IMO.

4 Springs (car specific), 4 dampers (fixed type for all), bumpstops and front ARB.

But more oddly it comes only with an uprated FRONT ARB, this is wierd as that can only mean it ADDS more understeer to an already front biased setup.

Oh dear.... is the modding bug in danger of being caught?

I seem to remember that Performance Car or EVO fitted the performance suspension to a 135i and found that it made is slower around their test circuit. I don't think they fitted the ARB though as the one sold for the 135i doesn't actually fit the car?

I'm going to see if I can get used to the sway at the rear over the next couple of months. I have a feeling that it may improve over time as everything beds in on the car. I'm sure I can 'drive through it' as well as it's not affecting grip. That weight shift just doesn't feel ' right'. Whereas I absolutely loved the way the 330i was nailed to the road.

[doughboy]

It can't be that good as only 1 damper set for every single E9x cannot possibly work for all if any.

Same as original M sport, a single damper for all models would not suit many.

Tony seemed to think that most likely they would have picked the premium sports model to set it up with - i.e. the 330i m sport at the time.

Like you say - I thought our early 330i's were just about perfect.....

[NFS]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Like you say - I thought our early 330i's were just about perfect.....

I remember getting into my 330i msport after a day driving proper track cars at Palmersport and thinking that it felt pretty damn good in comparison.

It was a really well balanced car. Still ... the 335i engine is some consolation

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by NFS

The 330i was on Bridgestone RFT's, then Vredestein non RFT's.

The 335i is on Michelin RFT's.

Other than that, all things are equal.

The ride on the 335i is as good or better than the 330i on Vredesteins. This makes me certain that the suspension has been changed and fairly sure that the objective was a more compliant ride.

When I changed the tyres on the 330i I noticed it leaning over more in the bends. The 335i feels similar to that, but with the addition of this looseness or slop in the movement of the rear of the car at higher speeds.

From your description it appears BMW have tried to put the non run-flat feel back into the cars, something many users have been shouting for, but it had to be done in the chassis/suspension. Result, the compromised response you are finding.

To be honest do you think the average BMW driver will even notice this?, remembering many BMW drivers are not all buying for the ultimate drive qualities.

The comment on the performance upgrade with the damper supplied to one specification for all models, does look to be another compromise.

HighlandPete

[NFS]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

From your description it appears BMW have tried to put the non run-flat feel back into the cars, something many users have been shouting for, but it had to be done in the chassis/suspension. Result, the compromised response you are finding.

To be honest do you think the average BMW driver will even notice this?, remembering many BMW drivers are not all buying for the ultimate drive qualities.

The comment on the performance upgrade with the damper supplied to one specification for all models, does look to be another compromise.

HighlandPete

I think this is absolutely what they have done. And yes I have to admit that most drivers probably won't care.

I don't like it though.

[Cafe.Racer]

From what you've said, it sounds like a stiffer rear ARB is needed?