[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by youyou

I'm just trying to understand something here.
You say that the xede that the beta testers have will be obsolete and will basically be useless.
I don't understand this... From day 1 these customers have been more then happy with the product and to my knowledge no one has reported that any error codes have appeared.

Incorrect. There have been issues with the beta Xedes. This, unfortunately, is normal during the beta development/testing process. Thankfully with the feedback from customers in Florida, Vancouver and Texas, we've isolated the cause of all these issues and solved many of them without any hardware changes to the Xede. However, offerring a 8/10ths product isn't what we had in mind. This is why we are replacing all of them with PROcedes on our dime. It's not fair to leave anyone with an outdated product. Especially our beta tester who have been so helpful to us along the way. Without their feedback, the PROcede wouldn't have become what it is today.

So until the new Procede was released everyone was satisfied with their xede.
So i'm just trying to understand here why the xede that is on the beta testers cars now that they are driving everyday and loving, are no good...
Thankx

Just ask yourself why we limited Xede release to just 20 people in the course of 2 months. By comparison, we've installed nearly twice the number of PROcedes in the last 2 weeks and growing fast. Simply put, we never got the Xede to the point where we felt it was ready for wide scale distribution/user installation. Obviously, along the way we made the decision to adopt new and improved hardware (PROcede). It offers, among other things, 3 times as many digital inputs, twice as many digital outputs, an extra analog input and an extra analog output. In the end, our goal was to have the best possible product for our customers and dealers. One that had all the hardware to take us forward into the future. The Xede, as Lachlan mentioned, was is to be redesigned in a few months and should offer the features that the PROcede is capable of providing right now (speed limiter defeats, VANOS control, closed loop boost control, etc,.) I'm sure the new Xede will be a good product when it is designed and released. I just wasn't ready to sell a few hundred "gen 1" Xedes only to replace it later with something that actually did all the stuff we wanted it to do in the first place. I can replace a couple dozen units on our dime. I can't replace a few hundred.

By no means are we saying that there is no market for anything but the PROcede. But being the one and only company that developed/implemented/mapped both the Xede and the PROcede for the 335i, we have a pretty good idea of which one better fits our own design parameters and targets. Of course, different strokes for different folks. In the end, there is more choice in the market. This is good for all of us. Customers get to pick what best fits their needs. We get to showcase our product's strengths in relation to other offerings.

Regards,
Shiv

[bkall4u]

Folks must understand that vishnu is a tuner not a computer manafactuer, you would be retarded to think that this one shop Invented/Developed/Manafactured/R&D'd the Xede without help from another company. They tune cars, they don't build computer chips from what I understand and I think most could understand the same no?

[LOK11atXEDE]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

FWIW, we'll have 20 or so used Xedes that we'd like to sell that belonged to the beta testers. I'll probably let them go for well under $750 for those who are interested. The only downsides are that they, in the case of the 335i at least, are essentially obsolete, offer virtually no upgradeability or expandability and tend to induce a certain fault codes unless mapped a certain way (which results in less-than-ideal-power output).

Perhaps when Chiptorque actually figures out how to install and tune an Xede on a 335i (instead of directly soliciting my employees for wiring diagrams, firmware files and tuning maps as they did on Feb 3rd), they can witness, explain and resolve these issues for the end users. After all, from the sound of it, they were the source of all Xede development during these last 4 years.

Regards,
shiv

Wow, I didn't know a flame suit was required on this forum.
Suit on!
Obviously your opinion has changed since the time when Vishnu had sole US XEDE distribution. Shiv, had I known that, in replying to your development requests, I was contacting you when you had already taken the information from the XEDE development to another product, I wouldn't have bothered. (I assume an email to Vishnu is soliciting your employees?)

I'm the noob here. You shouldn't have to justify your position on this forum.

Originally Posted by Ado

From the sounds of the last few posts it seems that the guys from Auzi haven't ever installed an XEDE on a 335.

I think it's safe to say that everyone who's looking to get an XEDE from these guys in Auzi should be careful.

At this point I have my money on Shiv's product. I think Shiv's move to get away from the XEDE is a smart business decision and if Shiv says the new PROcede is just as good and better then I trust him as I don't think he would be willing to put his reputation on the line for a few bucks.

Originally Posted by youyou

I'm just trying to understand something here.
You say that the xede that the beta testers have will be obsolete and will basically be useless.
I don't understand this... From day 1 these customers have been more then happy with the product and to my knowledge no one has reported that any error codes have appeared.
So until the new Procede was released everyone was satisfied with their xede.
So i'm just trying to understand here why the xede that is on the beta testers cars now that they are driving everyday and loving, are no good...
Thankx

Hmm, that was going to be my question. Shiv has 6 months development on these vehicles. Good on him. Well done! We saw our very first Right Hand Drive 335i in Australia last week. I thought Shiv was still working with us and wondered why our emails weren't being answered.
Shiv is a talented tuner and a good salesman. If I didn't think that was the case, I wouldn't have been backing him for the last 4 years. He is very good, but ChipTorque as the XEDE manufacturer, could no longer have such a small operation, reliant solely on the work of one man as our sole product distributor for the whole United States market. And, no disrespect either to the fine work of his other two staff Calvin in LA and Dustin who works tirelessly and very effectively given his part-time employment.
ChipTorque have only 9 full-time staff (6 in engineering) and 3 part-time staff. It will take us a little time to replicate Shiv's development.

Let me state this simply so there's no need for more flame suits. The XEDE will continue to be available for those who want a simple, supported and easy to tune device that can be supported by more than one highly talented tuner in the US market. As forum members, select the product that is right for you.

Lachlan Riddel
Technical Director
ChipTorque

[doctordel]

It is pretty obvious that there is more to the relationship between chiptorque and shiv that we, as consumers, have no need to really get involved with.

I know this:

Shiv is a good guy and a great tuner. His work is unquestioned. These Auusies may be fabulous as well but I know Shiv and he is good people IMHO.

Replacing my Xede with his new and improved product for free? Are you kidding? Try finding that elsewhere...

[Bravo1]

Maybe this was already mentioned, but who is making the PROcede? I am pretty sure Vishnu does not manufacture the unit, so where did this product come from?

What does it offer over the Xede for all vehicles, not just the 335?

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by doctordel

It is pretty obvious that there is more to the relationship between chiptorque and shiv that we, as consumers, have no need to really get involved with.

I know this:

Shiv is a good guy and a great tuner. His work is unquestioned. These Auusies may be fabulous as well but I know Shiv and he is good people IMHO.

Replacing my Xede with his new and improved product for free? Are you kidding? Try finding that elsewhere...

+1.

[Ado]

Originally Posted by Bravo1

Maybe this was already mentioned, but who is making the PROcede? I am pretty sure Vishnu does not manufacture the unit, so where did this product come from?

What does it offer over the Xede for all vehicles, not just the 335?

+1

[youyou]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Incorrect. There have been issues with the beta Xedes. This, unfortunately, is normal during the beta development/testing process. Thankfully with the feedback from customers in Florida, Vancouver and Texas, we've isolated the cause of all these issues and solved many of them without any hardware changes to the Xede. However, offerring a 8/10ths product isn't what we had in mind. This is why we are replacing all of them with PROcedes on our dime. It's not fair to leave anyone with an outdated product. Especially our beta tester who have been so helpful to us along the way. Without their feedback, the PROcede wouldn't have become what it is today.



Just ask yourself why we limited Xede release to just 20 people in the course of 2 months. By comparison, we've installed nearly twice the number of PROcedes in the last 2 weeks and growing fast. Simply put, we never got the Xede to the point where we felt it was ready for wide scale distribution/user installation. Obviously, along the way we made the decision to adopt new and improved hardware (PROcede). It offers, among other things, 3 times as many digital inputs, twice as many digital outputs, an extra analog input and an extra analog output. In the end, our goal was to have the best possible product for our customers and dealers. One that had all the hardware to take us forward into the future. The Xede, as Lachlan mentioned, was is to be redesigned in a few months and should offer the features that the PROcede is capable of providing right now (speed limiter defeats, VANOS control, closed loop boost control, etc,.) I'm sure the new Xede will be a good product when it is designed and released. I just wasn't ready to sell a few hundred "gen 1" Xedes only to replace it later with something that actually did all the stuff we wanted it to do in the first place. I can replace a couple dozen units on our dime. I can't replace a few hundred.

By no means are we saying that there is no market for anything but the PROcede. But being the one and only company that developed/implemented/mapped both the Xede and the PROcede for the 335i, we have a pretty good idea of which one better fits our own design parameters and targets. Of course, different strokes for different folks. In the end, there is more choice in the market. This is good for all of us. Customers get to pick what best fits their needs. We get to showcase our product's strengths in relation to other offerings.

Regards,
Shiv

Thankx Shiv for the reply.
It's just that i'm not too familiar with all the technical stuff and my question was basically asked because to my understanding the Xede and Procede were basically doing the same thing. In terms of numbers in Hp and Torque they are showing similar results. But as you stated there are many other factors that come into play that i probably wouldn't even understand.
Thankx again.

[teknochild]

sounds to me like the aussie guys are the manufacturers of the hardware units

shiv and vishnu tuning are the guys that take the hardware, and figure out how to apply it to a certain car and create maps for it (hence why its 1300 instead of 750)

then it sounds like shiv decided to go with a diffrent set of hardware, the aussies were sad because now shivs not going to buy a bunch of their hardware units to resell to us w/ his maps and harness

aussie guys then possibly try to get shivs maps and harness diagrams from vishnu employees so they can sell it to us

aussie guys come on here to share that they are displeased that shiv has chosen to go with a more advanced harware product that offers more options


i dont see a problem with whats going on really, but doesnt shiv still redistribute xede hardware for the evo and sti? doesnt sound like going at eachothers throats will be very good for either party

[jrios_jr]

Originally Posted by Bravo1

Maybe this was already mentioned, but who is making the PROcede? I am pretty sure Vishnu does not manufacture the unit, so where did this product come from?

What does it offer over the Xede for all vehicles, not just the 335?

+1

[edgarj]

Originally Posted by LOK11atXEDE

Wow, I didn't know a flame suit was required on this forum.
Suit on!

It really didn't require a 'flame suit' for his comment. Jeans and a T-shirt, as it was very objective and professionally vague in criticism. Work out whatever issues Shiv is citing and you'll have a great platform for competition. Shiv has been very rational in his grounds fro switching platforms, but I'm sure it has a business slant as well, but it's just a tuning platform after all. It certainly sounds like a ripe opportunity for you to find a tuner for XEDE and cease the jilted lover schtick.

And to Shiv-

Why even sell the beta XEDE's if they drop errors and produce substandard performance? Sounds like a tax deductible R&D hit that doesn't warrant the liability, if only verbal in nature. From the ubiquity of positive quality of reviews on Vishnu XEDE, I'd try it out at +40% discount if not for the hope of minuscule performance upgrades in the future, which I gather are unlikely with the exhaustive R&D you've put into this product. You really need to work this out with the XEDE folks as it's the one objection I've counted on the forum to the Vishnu product aside from the mouth breathers waiting for Dinan's milk toast offering. Carbon fiber milk-toast it will be, but still sadly, fluff. "But I have a full warranty, from Dinan".. from a company that didnt' even order an N54 untill a month ago and is begging for a Mini owner to donate their car (on their website, sad sad sad) for 2.5mos of R&D use of a Cooper-S in exchange for a ~20hp upgrade from $2500 in 'Dinan retail' upgrades. You can hardly rent a Chevy for the ''retail cost of the parts offered as compensation. Long live Vishnu, and die quietly Dinan (and the like).

[edgarj]

Originally Posted by LOK11atXEDE

Let me state this simply so there's no need for more flame suits. The XEDE will continue to be available for those who want a simple, supported and easy to tune device that can be supported by more than one highly talented tuner in the US market. As forum members, select the product that is right for you.

Lachlan Riddel
Technical Director
ChipTorque

Where is the support for a product that does not exist at this time aside from a brick that keeps my ECU company? That's an easy product to support, no doubt. 'Replicate' his product, or better yet, XEDE (sorry) his gains and then post this bragadocia. As of now, you are Intel/AMD without M$/Apple/Linux. It seems premature to solicit a platform sans application, or should I buy XEDE and be content with it's theoretical application? Theoretical speed is like carbon-kidneys and 20" wheels on a a 325.... just the thought of the mods might slow you down.

[teknochild]

Originally Posted by edgarj

Where is the support for a product that does not exist at this time aside from a brick that keeps my ECU company? That's an easy product to support, no doubt. 'Replicate' his product, or better yet, XEDE (sorry) his gains and then post this bragadocia. As of now, you are Intel/AMD without M$/Apple/Linux. It seems premature to solicit a platform sans application, or should I buy XEDE and be content with it's theoretical application? Theoretical speed is like carbon-kidneys and 20" wheels on a a 325.... just the thought of the mods might slow you down.

thats was brutal

[Shawn_speed]

edgarj:

You are the man! Very well put and great insight.

Shiv didn't sell the beta Xede, hence the beta part. He is replacing all of them free of charge with the real deal.

Shawn