[F32Fleet]

If it's any consolation. There are a ton of BIMRS.org member who use redline, and Mike Miller has used redline oils for years. Redline has been used by BMW enthusiats for years and there has not bee one instance where their oil caused damage to the engine. You'll be fine.

[BOOST3D]

i ordered redline 5w40 for my 335i i never used redline before but my friend swears by redline so i thought id give it try before this i was using royal purple xpr with no problems...
and engine chemistry doesn't really matter, i have a 00 e46 328i which i used all kinds of oil in it and for the past 2 1/2 years i have been using some weired russian oil because i go to med school out of the country and i took my 328i with me, the 328i has about ~192000 miles on it and its still going strong no engine problems i just change engine oil every 7000 miles

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by Chriztofor

Wow, sorry for thread jacking. I can't believe no one has any real world experiences with redline?!

I have run Redline 5W40 in my 335i for the past two changes. My car has had four oil fills in her life - two with BMW 5W30 (changed at 3,500 and 7,000 miles) and two with Redline 5W40 (changed at 10,500 and 14,000 miles).

I captured a sample of each oil drain and the Blackstone Labs analysis came back pretty much identical for each of the four samples regardless if it was BMW or Redline oil, except the Redline had higher viscosity ratings across the board. For example:
BMW Oil:
SUS Vis. @210degF = 62.4
cSt Vis @100degC = 10.89
Flashpoint = 380degF

Redline Oil:
SUS Vis. @210degF = 71.1
cSt Vis @100degC = 13.24
Flashpoint = 395degF

Each oil sample was run for ~3,500 miles and both the BMW and Redline oil showed very high TBN numbers (>4.5) indicating that both had plenty of additive left.

All of my oil analysis reports have showed one anomaly however - higher than desired metals, particularly aluminum. My ppm of aluminum has remained consistent at 13 regardless of BMW or Redline oil. My engine is still relatively new at a hair over 14,000 miles, but the even still, that much AL is not desired. My dealership looks at me like I have a third head when I start talking about this stuff - the typical response is "your car is not throwing any codes and is driving fine - there is nothing wrong". At least Mike Miller was helpful indicating he felt the AL could be coming from my turbos and asking me to ensure the oil had warmed up a bit before going above 3K RPM.

One more observation when running Redline is my oil temperature. With BMW oil, my nominal operating temp was ~245-deg F and spirited driving could bring the temp up to 255-260-deg F. With Redline, my nominal operating temp is 235-240-deg F and in spirited driving (even with Dinan Stage 2), I have never seen the oil temp rise above the 250-deg F mark.

TrackRat makes excellent points, but one area that merits a little extra discussion is the statement that the new vehicle warranty will be voided by using a non-BMW approved oil. My dealership knows I use Redline. I have provided them copies of my Redline purchase receipts as well as the Blackstone Labs analysis reports. When I have taken my car in for warranty work, there was no hassle, all work was performed and billed to the warranty. In the end of the day, the only part of the warranty that I believe could be voided by using a non-BMW approved oil, is the engine warranty. If your Logic7 stereo fails while under warranty, how can they not fix it because the 'customer was running a non-BMW approved oil'. They can't.

Going farther, let's say we do have a major failure of an engine component. For BMW to avoid paying for the repair under warranty, BMW would have to prove that the failure was solely due to improper lubrication because an 'inferior' oil was used. That would be a tall order unless it was an obvious mistake (i.e. the completely wrong viscosity oil was found in the engine).

Just my $0.02 - I am not a lawyer or a Redline advocate looking to convert people. I have run both BMW and Redline oils and the car 'felt' good regardless of the oil in the system. My oil analysis reports showed both oils protected the engine to the same degree, but the Redline oil had higher viscosity and flash-point measurements. And finally, my oil temp gauge shows lower operating and spirited temps with Redline than when running BMW oil.

[Chriztofor]

^ wow, you are hard core! Great post!
side note: I wonder what the Mobil 1 0-40 analysis would reveal. In the e46 site, I remember people jumping on others for using 5w30 and not 0w40.

[Chriztofor]

Track rat if it means anything you are hard core too, where did you get that BMW letter? You wrote to them and they responded by providing you with a redacted letter that they normally give to the oil companies? Talk about an oil enthusiast!

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by Chriztofor

^ wow, you are hard core! Great post!
side note: I wonder what the Mobil 1 0-40 analysis would reveal. In the e46 site, I remember people jumping on others for using 5w30 and not 0w40.

I too am curious about the Mobil 1 0W40, but I just could not sleep well at night knowing I put a 0-weight oil in my car when I live in the Tampa Bay area of Florida. In the summer, it is already 80-degrees-F at 6 AM here! If I lived up in the snow-belt than it would be a different story.

I love some of the crazy stuff that comes out of BMW and more commonly BMW service centers. Not just about the engine oil, but about other things too. My manual transmission oil - no need to every worry about changing it, it is good for the 'lifetime' of the vehicle. Yeah, right. Same goes for the engine coolant - no need to change that either, it is good for the lifetime of the vehicle.

In my mind, by lifetime, BMW means six years - four for the new vehicle warranty and two for the Certified Pre-Owned warranty. Don't even get me started on the 15,000-mile oil change intervals in a car whose nominal oil operating temperature is 240-250 deg-F. In my opinion, all of it is pure nonsense and all from the same people that say 'only use a BMW LL-01 oil or else'.

My conspiracy theory is this (so take it with a POUND of salt) - I don't believe we the customers get maintenance instructions from BMW engineering, I believe BMW engineering gives maintenance instructions to BMW corporate and then BMW corporate plays a statistics game to not necessarily maximize profits, but certainly increase profits by pushing maintenance intervals out.

I read on Autoblog that some 60 to 70% of all BMWs sold in the United States are leased. This means BMW pays for the service of that car and when BMW pays, that's when the accountants get involved at helping to mitigate the financial damage. Once the car comes off lease, BMW slaps a CPO sticker on it and just has to get the car through two more years of warranty coverage, after that (when the 'extended interval' chickens really start to come home to roost), good luck - that is the responsibility of the new owner.

Again, those two paragraphs are pure personal opinion, so please treat them as such. Each person should perform due diligence on anything they plan to do to their BMW before actually doing it.

[Chriztofor]

^In our litigious society I am shocked that BMW hasn't been sued for that lifetime

[742]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

I too am curious about the Mobil 1 0W40, but I just could not sleep well at night knowing I put a 0-weight oil in my car when I live in the Tampa Bay area of Florida. In the summer, it is already 80-degrees-F at 6 AM here! If I lived up in the snow-belt than it would be a different story.

When you walk out to your car on a 100 degree day your 0W-40 is SAE 40, Not 0. And as the engine reaches operating temperature the oil has a very robust HTHS of 3.7.

In the old days a 10W-40 was an SAE 10 oil with viscosity index improvers added, which eventually would break down leaving SAE 10 oil in the sump. Those days are long, long gone. Gone with Ford dealers selling new Pintos. Modern high quality engine oils are inherently multi grade without using viscosity index improvers (or using very little). In fact the ability of the oil to stay in grade over a long oil change interval is a part the LL-01 test sequence.

There is no need to be concerned about any of Mobil 1 "zeros". In fact they appear to be much better oils than their 5W-X brothers, probably due to higher quality base stocks.

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by 742

When you walk out to your car on a 100 degree day your 0W-40 is SAE 40, Not 0. And as the engine reaches operating temperature the oil has a very robust HTHS of 3.7.

In the old days a 10W-40 was an SAE 10 oil with viscosity index improvers added, which eventually would break down leaving SAE 10 oil in the sump. Those days are long, long gone. Gone with Ford dealers selling new Pintos. Modern high quality engine oils are inherently multi grade without using viscosity index improvers (or using very little). In fact the ability of the oil to stay in grade over a long oil change interval is a part the LL-01 test sequence.

There is no need to be concerned about any of Mobil 1 "zeros". In fact they appear to be much better oils than their 5W-X brothers, probably due to higher quality base stocks.

I agree with you concerning the Mobil 1 zeros - all seem to be excellent oils, and of a different chemistry than their 5W brothers. Aggravating, but understandable that Mobil does not give the base-stock breakdown, neither does Redline. Most conjecture points that the Mobil 1 zeros tend to be pure Group IV PAO basestocks whereas 5W oils tend to lean into the Group III. Who knows, but it is telling that only Mobil-1 0W40 earned the LL-01 stamp.

Its funny you mentioned HTHS - that was a major contributor to my going with Redline 5W40 - Redline shows a HTHS Viscosity @ 150 deg-C of 4.6 while Mobil 1 0W40 shows 3.7. Even more metrics that are interesting:

Mobil 1
cSt@40-deg C 78.3
cSt@100-deg C 14.0
Flash Point-C 230
Viscosity Index 186

Redline
cSt@40-deg C 94
cSt@100-deg C 15.1
Flash Point-C 250
Viscosity Index 170

If I could find more published properties regarding the BMW oil, I would feel more comfortable about it. Silly statement I know, but the whole 'just use this' without showing any empirical metrics causes concern in me.

Then I step back and ask myself if any of this really matters. BMW oil, Redline, Mobil-1...all great oils that will lubricate the engine. The next question is just how long those oils can stay in service without needing to be drained and replaced. Both these debates will make internet message boards light-up in debate...LOL

[123Britt]

If a sock company said you could wear a pair of socks for 15 weeks and it was ok - they guarantee they would not wear out --- would you?
.
.
Yes the may last 15weeks and not wear out -- but they would still get dirty and smell really bad.
.
.
335i owners - just get the best deal on a LL-01 oil and change every 5k.
.
.
I like GC 0-30 on sale at Autozone for less than $6qt with Mann filters - see the dealer every 3rd change.