[themyst]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Throw an ambiguous grenade and then turn your back and run for the hills?

I am a bit confused by your motives. It is no secret that AR makes a fine DP, if not the finest. AR does often enter threads of lesser quality DP’s to defend why theirs is better, which I understand. But then you turn and suggest that other vendors should not do the same? That is the way I am reading it yet I could be wrong.

To add to this it seems the idea of quality is only limited to what one has in his/her portfolio. The primary point of AR’s MO has been the originator of the 3 inch DP as well as using quality components and knowledgeable labor. I find this in stark contrast with their support of BMS’s components which are essentially the China knock off of the piggy back world. I say this for two points which I will highlight.

On design, AR was the originator of the 3 inch DP. BMS has yet to be an originator on any aspect. In fact, many items have been copied (sound like what the China competition did with the UR DP’s).

On the quality aspect I see AR tout material properties and craftsman quality as other selling points which I whole heartedly agree with. But conversely sell BMS products which do not meet the microprocessor recommendations on usage. If you look at the specifications for the microprocessor it shows the suggested filtering, etc. components to be used which BMS disregarded as unnecessary to reduce costs, initially touted as additional failure points (which is the opposite of the new board soon to be released). That again sounds like the Chinese way.

So on one hand, AR will defend its quality on certain premise. But on the other, it will prostitute its self to sell a product which does not live up to its own credo.

Just curious which face is the real one?

+1; AR makes quality, albeit pricey goods, yet they get their panties in a bunch when Shiv points out misinformation presented by the BMS camp, yet I can name on more than one occasion where AR would hijack a thread bashing a product. I'm sure since AR has a vested interest in the resale of BMS products, they see Vishnu as a threat.

This all started when VK started a GB on 2.5" downpipes for $350.00 shipped. AR would get in that thread and start bashing on the said product before it was even released to the public, then when those raceland DPs undercut the VK product, he would go in and defend his product again, pointing out the size and welds of both products. Both VK and raceland DPs for the price have been more than adequate with no reports of failure or otherwise. I'm sure both of these cheap DPs cannibalized AR's sales just a bit, but they're not starving either. Point here is, how is AR any different than Vishnu in regards to defending their product?

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by themyst

+1; AR makes quality, albeit pricey goods, yet they get their panties in a bunch when Shiv points out misinformation presented by the BMS camp, yet I can name on more than one occasion where AR would hijack a thread bashing a product. I'm sure since AR has a vested interest in the resale of BMS products, they see Vishnu as a threat.

This all started when VK started a GB on 2.5" downpipes for $350.00 shipped. AR would get in that thread and start bashing on the said product before it was even released to the public, then when those raceland DPs undercut the VK product, he would go in and defend his product again, pointing out the size and welds of both products. Both VK and raceland DPs for the price have been more than adequate with no reports of failure or otherwise. I'm sure both of these cheap DPs cannibalized AR's sales just a bit, but they're not starving either. Point here is, how is AR any different than Vishnu in regards to defending their product?

Exactly! That vk thread was closed eventually too.

[lyndon_h]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Throw an ambiguous grenade and then turn your back and run for the hills?

I am a bit confused by your motives. It is no secret that AR makes a fine DP, if not the finest. AR does often enter threads of lesser quality DP’s to defend why theirs is better, which I understand. But then you turn and suggest that other vendors should not do the same? That is the way I am reading it yet I could be wrong.

To add to this it seems the idea of quality is only limited to what one has in his/her portfolio. The primary point of AR’s MO has been the originator of the 3 inch DP as well as using quality components and knowledgeable labor. I find this in stark contrast with their support of BMS’s components which are essentially the China knock off of the piggy back world. I say this for two points which I will highlight.

On design, AR was the originator of the 3 inch DP. BMS has yet to be an originator on any aspect. In fact, many items have been copied (sound like what the China competition did with the UR DP’s).

On the quality aspect I see AR tout material properties and craftsman quality as other selling points which I whole heartedly agree with. But conversely sell BMS products which do not meet the microprocessor recommendations on usage. If you look at the specifications for the microprocessor it shows the suggested filtering, etc. components to be used which BMS disregarded as unnecessary to reduce costs, initially touted as additional failure points (which is the opposite of the new board soon to be released). That again sounds like the Chinese way.

So on one hand, AR will defend its quality on certain premise. But on the other, it will prostitute its self to sell a product which does not live up to its own credo.

Just curious which face is the real one?

I agree. The kettle apparently doesn't realize it's black.

[lamia2super]

Oddjob as the turbos in his car if you guys didn't know

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by themyst

+1; AR makes quality, albeit pricey goods, yet they get their panties in a bunch when Shiv points out misinformation presented by the BMS camp, yet I can name on more than one occasion where AR would hijack a thread bashing a product. I'm sure since AR has a vested interest in the resale of BMS products, they see Vishnu as a threat.

This all started when VK started a GB on 2.5" downpipes for $350.00 shipped. AR would get in that thread and start bashing on the said product before it was even released to the public, then when those raceland DPs undercut the VK product, he would go in and defend his product again, pointing out the size and welds of both products. Both VK and raceland DPs for the price have been more than adequate with no reports of failure or otherwise. I'm sure both of these cheap DPs cannibalized AR's sales just a bit, but they're not starving either. Point here is, how is AR any different than Vishnu in regards to defending their product?

They are not. I already said, they lost a potential customer. Never buy any of their stuff.

They don't like Shiv posting in their threads when he tells them their dyno is shit because they are using correction at altitude, which Dynojet themselves said FI cars and altitude correction is not accurate at all.

Then, they demand his posts be removed from their thread, and even before they started the thread, they whined babies to the Mods to "watch" the thread...particularly they of course mentioned Shiv.

Then, they have the f**king nerve to jump in every other thread and say how crappy the quality is related to DPs, how their stuff is so superior, with no proof about "PERFORMANCE" compared to the so called "cheap Chinese DPs"...then jump and shit in every Shiv thread now just to make some point.

Head over to N54 tech...they love to jump in every thread that mentions Shiv and pile on.

Ar's rhetoric, along with Mike/Terry is growing tiresome. They just can't admit that there are people like Shiv who know 10x more then they do about FI applications and tuning, and they don't like facts and information to try and learn, instead their delicate egos take it as direct attacks towards their products or work.

[Slidewayz]

Originally Posted by techlogik

They are not. I already said, they lost a potential customer. Never buy any of their stuff.

They don't like Shiv posting in their threads when he tells them their dyno is shit because they are using correction at altitude, which Dynojet themselves said FI cars and altitude correction is not accurate at all.

Then, they demand his posts be removed from their thread, and even before they started the thread, they whined babies to the Mods to "watch" the thread...particularly they of course mentioned Shiv.

Then, they have the f**king nerve to jump in every other thread and say how crappy the quality is related to DPs, how their stuff is so superior, with no proof about "PERFORMANCE" compared to the so called "cheap Chinese DPs"...then jump and shit in every Shiv thread now just to make some point.

Head over to N54 tech...they love to jump in every thread that mentions Shiv and pile on.

Ar's rhetoric, along with Mike/Terry is growing tiresome. They just can't admit that there are people like Shiv who know 10x more then they do about FI applications and tuning, and they don't like facts and information to try and learn, instead their delicate egos take it as direct attacks towards their products or work.

I take the AR guys with a grain of salt...I chalk up their nonsense to male menopause and insecurity.

When I'm ready to upgrade my turbos, I'll look at the performance data, reliability, support, and pricing and take my decision based upon facts, not emotions. If AR's gear is the best value, I'll buy from them. If not, I'll buy from someone else. This is a business transaction, not someone I'm thinking about dating.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

I take the AR guys with a grain of salt...I chalk up their nonsense to male menopause and insecurity.

When I'm ready to upgrade my turbos, I'll look at the performance data, reliability, support, and pricing and take my decision based upon facts, not emotions. If AR's gear is the best value, I'll buy from them. If not, I'll buy from someone else. This is a business transaction, not someone I'm thinking about dating.

That is perhaps the funniest thing I've read all week. So true.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by Slidewayz

I take the AR guys with a grain of salt...I chalk up their nonsense to male menopause and insecurity.

When I'm ready to upgrade my turbos, I'll look at the performance data, reliability, support, and pricing and take my decision based upon facts, not emotions. If AR's gear is the best value, I'll buy from them. If not, I'll buy from someone else. This is a business transaction, not someone I'm thinking about dating.

+2...

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Throw an ambiguous grenade and then turn your back and run for the hills?

I am a bit confused by your motives. It is no secret that AR makes a fine DP, if not the finest. AR does often enter threads of lesser quality DP’s to defend why theirs is better, which I understand. But then you turn and suggest that other vendors should not do the same? That is the way I am reading it yet I could be wrong.

To add to this it seems the idea of quality is only limited to what one has in his/her portfolio. The primary point of AR’s MO has been the originator of the 3 inch DP as well as using quality components and knowledgeable labor. I find this in stark contrast with their support of BMS’s components which are essentially the China knock off of the piggy back world. I say this for two points which I will highlight.

On design, AR was the originator of the 3 inch DP. BMS has yet to be an originator on any aspect. In fact, many items have been copied (sound like what the China competition did with the UR DP’s).

On the quality aspect I see AR tout material properties and craftsman quality as other selling points which I whole heartedly agree with. But conversely sell BMS products which do not meet the microprocessor recommendations on usage. If you look at the specifications for the microprocessor it shows the suggested filtering, etc. components to be used which BMS disregarded as unnecessary to reduce costs, initially touted as additional failure points (which is the opposite of the new board soon to be released). That again sounds like the Chinese way.

So on one hand, AR will defend its quality on certain premise. But on the other, it will prostitute its self to sell a product which does not live up to its own credo.

Just curious which face is the real one?

GREAT post. Totally agree. Something I've always wondered about myself. But, in retrospect, it's totally understandable. It's just business. AR does what they feel is in their best business interest as sellers of both their own high quality, in-house developed products and "knock off" JB products. Can't fault them for that even if it seems illogical.

The irony is, people who would buy JB products are more value oriented and would skew towards buying the cheaper DPs rather than AR's high quality DPs. If I were going to spend $800-$1000 on a quality set of DPs, I'd be pairing it w/ a quality piggyback/tune like the Procede V4 or GIAC stage 2 rather than a JB3.