[Focus]

Originally Posted by themyst

The challenge that both Clap and I presented to Shiv is to show us some logs of discernable benefit of this PWM meth kit in action which he failed to do so far, other than some shill testimonials of users who never ran a meth kit before.

Shiv,

I would just like to know why you are avoiding this question. It seems simple to me, you must of read it if you were about to post 40 min ago. I'm one who would also like to know the answer to this question as it will make my decision on whether to purchase your kit or not. I need more then just " trust me everyone will switch once they have it " .. that makes it sound more like snake oil -_-..

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by themyst

I think what Shiv is trying to point out is the PWM meth kit controls meth injection more precisely at part throttle than conventional meth kits.

The challenge that both Clap and I presented to Shiv is to show us some logs of discernable benefit of this PWM meth kit in action which he failed to do so far, other than some shill testimonials of users who never ran a meth kit before.

so far, no dice.

Heh...you and Clap very well know that me "showing datalogs" comparing the two approaches to meth injection is useless unless they were done on the same car, same mods, same meth mixture and in the same conditions. Anything short of that and you two would be crying foul and just wasting my time.

Short of putting both meth kits on the same car, sharing the same bottle, any direction comparison test is impossible. But rest assured that the real world differences between PWM vs. PPS meth kits is pretty obvious from even insensitive drivers. Saying "just execute the shift faster" to avoid boost drop and resultant injection delay associated with PPS systems is ridiculous.

Shiv

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Heh...you and Clap very well know that me "showing datalogs" comparing the two approaches to meth injection is useless unless they were done on the same car, same mods, same meth mixture and in the same conditions. Anything short of that and you two would be crying foul and just wasting my time.

Short of putting both meth kits on the same car, sharing the same bottle, any direction comparison test is impossible. But rest assured that the real world differences between PWM vs. PPS meth kits is pretty obvious from even insensitive drivers. Saying "just execute the shift faster" to avoid boost drop and resultant injection delay associated with PPS systems is ridiculous.

Shiv

I wont cry foul, however I will make your logs look like shit using a standard meth kit. You also missed my point of why pwm exsists, and its not for the reason you are speaking of.

[dzenno]

Boost doesn't stay at 9-10psi through shifts and my shifts are 0.17sec - 0.25sec long, no way I can shift faster than that...

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Boost doesn't stay at 9-10psi through shifts and my shifts are 0.17sec - 0.25sec long, no way I can shift faster than that...

Did you look at the first post of this thread?
Drop your starting to point to whatever boost you can hold btwn a shift. In my log outside of the 1-2shift i never fell below 10psi

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Did you look at the first post of this thread?

You are seeing TMAP/Chargepipe pressure that doesn't fall below 10psi between gears. Your actual boost pressure drops quite a bit more than that. You can conclude that by looking at your throttle blade angle (CAN dbw throttle) during that moment. The only time pre and post TB pressure is equal is when CAN dbw throttle is fully open (or close to it).

[dzenno]

Yeah I see that now, thanks for pointing it out...I guess meth would continue to spray through shifts then...

[Clap135]

Heres a log showing meth flow through a shift to proove that it stays on



Any other attempts? lol How bout some logs?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You are seeing TMAP/Chargepipe pressure that doesn't fall below 10psi between gears. Your actual boost pressure drops quite a bit more than that. You can conclude that by looking at your throttle blade angle (CAN dbw throttle) during that moment. The only time pre and post TB pressure is equal is when CAN dbw throttle is fully open (or close to it).

Yes but my meth controller sees this same boost curve though right? If that's the case it'd continue to spray through shifts as long as min boost was set to about say 6-7psi...

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Yeah I see that now, thanks for pointing it out...I guess meth would continue to spray through shifts then...

Log your flow meter signal. You'll see that it will usually drop between gears. Even with fast shifts. You'd have to set your max meth psi setting to 6-7psi and shift quickly ALL THE TIME to make it flow between shifts.

[dzenno]

Clap where's meth flow there on that log?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Clap where's meth flow there on that log?

debug 7 thing.....I guess shiv is wrong based on that log

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Clap135

debug 7 thing.....I guess shiv is wrong based on that log

If you actually read my last post, I said the only way to get it to flow between gears is to set your max setting to 6-7psi and to shift quickly (under .3 seconds) ALL THE TIME.

So in essence, you are suggesting that instead of using a constant pressure/pwm meth kit that has no delay time, the better approach to run a PPS system set to dump full meth at low boost and to rip off fast shifts? Really??

And btw, we use a running average/smoothing function to logged meth flow. The raw signal on the CM/Labonte/Snow flow meters are a lot noisier than that. So don't pat yourself on the back to hard by seeing a flatlined meth flow log between a shift

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

If you actually read my last post, I said the only way to get it to flow between gears is to set your max setting to 6-7psi and to shift quickly (under .3 seconds) ALL THE TIME.

So in essence, you are suggesting that instead of using a constant pressure/pwm meth kit that has no delay time, the better approach to run a PPS system set to dump full meth at low boost and to rip off fast shifts? Really??

No what I am saying is that delay doesnt do shit, awesome I know.
But personally I have stated many times, im a full flow by 6psi...
Fiddle sticks, I saw you posted and hoped to see logs.

[Ilma]

Are we playing trap the tuner.........again!

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Are we playing trap the tuner.........again!

No, I like to play, "post factual data" But apparently others don't.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Clap135

No, I like to play, "post factual data" But apparently others don't.

lol.....j/k

[EastBayE90]

Your argument about the kits being able to make similar power is not the point clap. The point of the PWM kit is it's seamless stock like power delivery during all conditions. I know since all you clearly do is drive wot every where so that is fine for you. Ok sure the kits perform "similar" in a wot drag race condition. What about on the race track or just spirited canyon drives. I'm only wot on straights for slight bursts. 90% of the time I will be partial throttle because of turn ins and smooth exits. The PWM will deliver a instant perfectly atomized spray during all of these variable load conditions and it's the speed at which it reacts, that is the impressive feature of the PWM. Your overly obsessed with logs and quarter mile times. Again sometimes it's about the entire drive, even more so on the race track. Which doesn't matter to you. This is why you cannot wrap your mind around this concept. You simply think life is all about wot. So just sit back and let those who are interested in this, seamless delivery during all conditions kit, enjoy it. Get out from under your bridge and see the light.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420

Your argument about the kits being able to make similar power is not the point clap. The point of the PWM kit is it's seamless stock like power delivery during all conditions. I know since all you clearly do is drive wot every where so that is fine for you. Ok sure the kits perform "similar" in a wot drag race condition. What about on the race track or just spirited canyon drives. I'm only wot on straights for slight bursts. 90% of the time I will be partial throttle because of turn ins and smooth exits. The PWM will deliver a instant perfectly atomized spray during all of these variable load conditions and it's the speed at which it reacts, that is the impressive feature of the PWM. Your overly obsessed with logs and quarter mile times. Again sometimes it's about the entire drive, even more so on the race track. Which doesn't matter to you. This is why you cannot wrap your mind around this concept. You simply think life is all about wot. So just sit back and let those who are interested in this, seamless delivery during all conditions kit, enjoy it. Get out from under your bridge and see the light.

The kits perform the same during those conditions as well, post logs to proove other wise. 6psi full flow, no problems. If you pwm kit performs better at 4psi, post logs. But at 4psi, it honestly doesnt matter because the engine doesnt need to octane or cooling in that state to begin with....

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

If you actually read my last post, I said the only way to get it to flow between gears is to set your max setting to 6-7psi and to shift quickly (under .3 seconds) ALL THE TIME.

So in essence, you are suggesting that instead of using a constant pressure/pwm meth kit that has no delay time, the better approach to run a PPS system set to dump full meth at low boost and to rip off fast shifts? Really??

And btw, we use a running average/smoothing function to logged meth flow. The raw signal on the CM/Labonte/Snow flow meters are a lot noisier than that. So don't pat yourself on the back to hard by seeing a flatlined meth flow log between a shift

There isn't much of a difference between the two meth control approaches during a manual shift. Boost will drop to 0, both pumps will shut off, both solenoids will close, and when you get back in to boost both solenoids will open, and both pumps will then resume building pressure.

Now if you have the piggyback running the meth pump like is possible with the JB4 or any piggyback system then you can introduce special shift logic. Like considering whether the throttle blade is open, considering whether we're doing a WOT shift and want to keep some meth flowing during the shift, etc.

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Clap135

No what I am saying is that delay doesnt do shit, awesome I know.
But personally I have stated many times, im a full flow by 6psi...
Fiddle sticks, I saw you posted and hoped to see logs.

Waitasec. Are you saying a half second meth flow delay is perfectly fine?

I know its Sunday, but let's do some math. At 5000rpm, there are 83 engine cycles per second. So if boost only takes say 0.1 second to rise from 5psi to 15psi, you are left with 0.4 seconds of full boost and no meth flow. In that 0.4s, there are 33 engine events where you have full load and no meth flow.

So that is okay?

[Clap135]

The people commenting in this thread are funny actually, cause if they knew the purpose of pwm, they would refrain from making the comments they made to justify a kit which on this car will not perform ANY different from a regular kit.