[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Remember, dynos show spool (where in the rpm band the turbo becomes efficient), they do not show lag. Lag is time-to-torque; driveability, responsiveness, and unless you are a "only-highway-pulls" sort of fellow, it matters.

700 whp is doable on an N54 but becomes an increasing chore for maintenance and anything near reliability. I think the platform sweet spot is 550-600ish whp, you can put a lot of miles and get decent reliability out of components, basic drivetrain upgrades will get you most of the way there, nothing too crazy and the car feels great.

Past that is fun to be sure, but IMO the car goes far more into "toy" category.

Chris

[nicky dj]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

Remember, dynos show spool (where in the rpm band the turbo becomes efficient), they do not show lag. Lag is time-to-torque; driveability, responsiveness, and unless you are a "only-highway-pulls" sort of fellow, it matters.

700 whp is doable on an N54 but becomes an increasing chore for maintenance and anything near reliability. I think the platform sweet spot is 550-600ish whp, you can put a lot of miles and get decent reliability out of components, basic drivetrain upgrades will get you most of the way there, nothing too crazy and the car feels great.

Past that is fun to be sure, but IMO the car goes far more into "toy" category.

Chris

Chris, other than an LSD what other basic drivetrain upgrades are you referring to? Also, what's your your take on the Z6AT handling torque above 550-600? There are countless threads that over that you'll experience slipping; if so - what's your take on upgrading clutch packs? I have xHP but trying to understand how software supports higher torque and possible slipping. Thanks

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

I drive a 6MT, so my "upgrades" involve a better clutch, the normal suspension mods/etc. I do have a M3 diff & axles at the shop ready to install on my E90, and a carbon driveshaft that I wouldn't have purchased except Tony changed transmissions in the race car and it would no longer fit his -got it from him for a song.

Tony's better acquainted with playing around with the 6AT, I lost interest in it a couple years ago, anecdotally I hear things from customers about 6AT slip all the time. I don't have experience with xHP but it seems to be a step in the right direction. As far as software supporting higher torque, IMO it'd probably just be a case of commanding higher line pressures, decreasing shift times/etc. Those are all things that kill you on an auto -but again, not really my world.

[Trimark]

Very informative video on the build and daily driving the 700hp 335i

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by Trimark

Very informative video on the build and daily driving the 700hp 335i

That's when it's done properly, he's spent some serious money though, I think he said 20k

[NoGuru]

I have done most of my own work and have around 20K into mine, maybe more but I do have cosmetics too.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by NoGuru

I have done most of my own work and have around 20K into mine, maybe more but I do have cosmetics too.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by NoGuru

I have done most of my own work and have around 20K into mine, maybe more but I do have cosmetics too.

I am not even going to tell you what my excel file says and I do all my own work as well for the most part

Shit adds up quick. My last set of mods I have yet to install just cost my like 6.5k:


$1,020 Stage 3.75+ rev 2 bucketed pump
$1,200 M18 valve cover and radium dual catch can - vent option no recirc
$1,400 BMP N54 PERFORMANCE FORWARD FACING MANIFOLD
$250 BMW M18 N54 Top Mount PR Coil Cover
$500 PR BMW N54 IGNITION KIT
$75 NGK SPARK PLUGS (97506)
$600 BMW E9X / E8X IN TANK FILTER REGULATOR ASSEMBLY
$800 Motive reflex+ w/ ethanol content sensor
$150 BMW E9X/E8X FUEL LINE AN-6 FOR IN TANK REGULATOR / FILTER ASSEMBLY
$500 New Motiv Tune
$300 mossleman thermostat



Twins are good below 600whp. Above go with a single. The cost of quality aftermarket twins and going FBO is basically the cost of a single turbo kit.

I have seen literally a handful(less than 5) dynos of twins making 700+ whp while ST can do it all day every day. Unless you count the cherry picked glory runs certain vendors put out that NONE of their customers can hit. You are not going to make 850whp on stock style twins and realistically not 700whp either in most cases. You are literally running the turbos at their ragged edge out of their efficiency islands.

ST are inherently 2x as reliable and have significantly more headroom then stock style twins can ever have.

[NoGuru]

Originally Posted by Torgus

I am not even going to tell you what my excel file says and I do all my own work as well for the most part

Shit adds up quick. My last set of mods I have yet to install just cost my like 6.5k:


$1,020 Stage 3.75+ rev 2 bucketed pump
$1,200 M18 valve cover and radium dual catch can - vent option no recirc
$1,400 BMP N54 PERFORMANCE FORWARD FACING MANIFOLD
$250 BMW M18 N54 Top Mount PR Coil Cover
$500 PR BMW N54 IGNITION KIT
$75 NGK SPARK PLUGS (97506)
$600 BMW E9X / E8X IN TANK FILTER REGULATOR ASSEMBLY
$800 Motive reflex+ w/ ethanol content sensor
$150 BMW E9X/E8X FUEL LINE AN-6 FOR IN TANK REGULATOR / FILTER ASSEMBLY
$500 New Motiv Tune
$300 mossleman thermostat



Twins are good below 600whp. Above go with a single. The cost of quality aftermarket twins and going FBO is basically the cost of a single turbo kit.

I have seen literally a handful(less than 5) dynos of twins making 700+ whp while ST can do it all day every day. Unless you count the cherry picked glory runs certain vendors put out that NONE of their customers can hit. You are not going to make 850whp on stock style twins and realistically not 700whp either in most cases. You are literally running the turbos at their ragged edge out of their efficiency islands.

ST are inherently 2x as reliable and have significantly more headroom then stock style twins can ever have.

Yep, I completely agree with all this. The more I stay with this platform the more I see Single would have been the way I would have gone but I wanted a quick spool and nothing that last very long.
I might still go single if I keep this car and I know who I will go to for recommendations _

[Spyro235]

Originally Posted by Torgus

I am not even going to tell you what my excel file says and I do all my own work as well for the most part

Shit adds up quick. My last set of mods I have yet to install just cost my like 6.5k:


$1,020 Stage 3.75+ rev 2 bucketed pump
$1,200 M18 valve cover and radium dual catch can - vent option no recirc
$1,400 BMP N54 PERFORMANCE FORWARD FACING MANIFOLD
$250 BMW M18 N54 Top Mount PR Coil Cover
$500 PR BMW N54 IGNITION KIT
$75 NGK SPARK PLUGS (97506)
$600 BMW E9X / E8X IN TANK FILTER REGULATOR ASSEMBLY
$800 Motive reflex+ w/ ethanol content sensor
$150 BMW E9X/E8X FUEL LINE AN-6 FOR IN TANK REGULATOR / FILTER ASSEMBLY
$500 New Motiv Tune
$300 mossleman thermostat



Twins are good below 600whp. Above go with a single. The cost of quality aftermarket twins and going FBO is basically the cost of a single turbo kit.

I have seen literally a handful(less than 5) dynos of twins making 700+ whp while ST can do it all day every day. Unless you count the cherry picked glory runs certain vendors put out that NONE of their customers can hit. You are not going to make 850whp on stock style twins and realistically not 700whp either in most cases. You are literally running the turbos at their ragged edge out of their efficiency islands.

ST are inherently 2x as reliable and have significantly more headroom then stock style twins can ever have.

So, at what point is single starting to be worth it? Now that I'm pretending to be back in the n54 game, I like dreaming... is a 500 whp single setup worth it? Or do I roll the dice on this beater car and buy the ebay 17t twins, and run a real tune? I figure the first time this motor needs the turbo's to come off, the stock ones arent going back on. Whether that's in this chassis, or in an e46, is still undecided!

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Spyro235

So, at what point is single starting to be worth it? Now that I'm pretending to be back in the n54 game, I like dreaming... is a 500 whp single setup worth it? Or do I roll the dice on this beater car and buy the ebay 17t twins, and run a real tune? I figure the first time this motor needs the turbo's to come off, the stock ones arent going back on. Whether that's in this chassis, or in an e46, is still undecided!

So a lot of my spending above is complete overkill and really not needed just to make powah. You can make 700whp w/ a ST on E85 for a lot less for instance. I just like doing things my way

My vote is still single turbo(which probably does not surprise anyone) once you factor in the cost of going with quality aftermarket turbos and going FBO w/ inlets and outlets you are not far away from a single kit unless you roll the dice with ebay/alibaba twins.

https://speedtech.com/pages/n54-pricing <-- Kits start at $3,400 for a bottom mount.

Also depends on if you don't mind having a car down while you wait for a replacement twin turbo and if you are doing the work yourself. A single is more reliable and also get's better mpg not that anyone probably cares about that!

I assume there will be some good black friday deals floating around for turbo kits? DR looks like they just jacked their prices up so it can look like they are giving a huge discount off.

It also comes down to how much do you want to make at the wheels and your goals for the vehicle. Will you be happy with 500whp? 700? 850?