[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by zltm089

but I have a feeling that an e92 will handle as good if not better than any TT or A3 (with non runflats on!!!....)

My view is to get non runflats fitted (performance or even mid range tyres)....and switch off the dsc/dtc fully....it will buttfcuk any A3 or TT!!!...

Sorry Kevin but I'll have to correct you there me old mucker..............having owned an E92 335d, as competent all rounder that it is, I'm afraid the handling and poise is not the same, physics plays its part and most, most definitely levels of grip and chuckability. And that's only in the dry.

We can always try it out.

[FPO]

Please noone think that I'm saying that the A3 is a better car than the E92. I am only saying that I was able to feel more in control with the a3 than I can currently with the 335d at similar speeds. I think the RFT are just not very good at transferring the feeling of the road to the steering wheel. I'll reduce the pressures and then see what happens.
Btw let's be honest the 335d will buttfcuk almost anything you see on the road!

[beemerbird]

No one is or should be lol but you're entitled to your opinions based on your own experiences, as am I so corrected Kevin based on my experiences and ownership.

Those who are self confident wouldn't think that anyhow tbh.

Will butt fuck many cars I agree but there are still a good few it won't.

[willhollin]

Watch out for 330d's!

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Sorry Kevin but I'll have to correct you there me old mucker..............having owned an E92 335d, as competent all rounder that it is, I'm afraid the handling and poise is not the same, physics plays its part and most, most definitely levels of grip and chuckability. And that's only in the dry.

We can always try it out.

yeah, down to driver's feeling Helen. Are you saying that the TT will handle better i.e take bends and corners faster than an e92 with msport suspension? I don't think it will....We are talking about the handling now Helen, not the power delivery or acceleration....

in terms of handling...I think the e92 will match (or be better/ faster than) the TT or A3.....around bends....


but I haven't taken the e92 or the TT on track,

so i guess to have the answer, it will have to be on track, same weather conditions, same driver, and see how the test driver feels at taking corners with both cars....excluding the power factor i.e how fast it can exit corners etc....

I hereby respond to your challenge at UK10 and happy to prove you that the handling of an e92 can match a TT ;-)

PS: (only JOKING)

Don't want to be the idiot at UK10, so I'm not going against a TTRS driven by an experienced lady....:chara cter0264:

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by willhollin

Watch out for 330d's!

All e92 (exluding the M3) have got the same chassis and suspension set up (if Msport).....am i correct?....so handling should be the same....

so, I will buttfcuk ur 330D Will....HAHAHAH.....cause I got more power on tap!....

Am I right in saying that all standard (msport) e92 will handle the same? (or is there a difference in the "internal" chassis stuff?

[ss134]

Originally Posted by zltm089

yeah, down to driver's feeling Helen. Are you saying that the TT will handle better i.e take bends and corners faster than an e92 with msport suspension? I don't think it will....We are talking about the handling now Helen, not the power delivery or acceleration....

in terms of handling...I think the e92 will match (or be better/ faster than) the TT or A3.....around bends....


but I haven't taken the e92 or the TT on track,

so i guess to have the answer, it will have to be on track, same weather conditions, same driver, and see how the test driver feels at taking corners with both cars....excluding the power factor i.e how fast it can exit corners etc....

I hereby respond to your challenge at UK10 and happy to prove you that the handling of an e92 can match a TT ;-)

PS: (only JOKING)

Don't want to be the idiot at UK10, so I'm not going against a TTRS driven by an experienced lady....:chara cter0264:

The TTRS would annihalate a standard E92 on the road or track.............it is only 4 sec slower around the Nordschleife than an M3..........and it is packing less power.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by FPO

They are Pirelli P-Zeros with only 1000 miles of gentle wear Pete!
Is that a good or bad thing as never had them before?

Thats exactly the feeling, driving on Ice! There doesnt seem to be that bite on the road. Guess thats why the M3 has NON RFT from delivery!
I had a 3dr A3 that was remapped to 170bhp and due to this always fitted either Michelin PS2's or Goodyear Assymetrics / GSD3's. There was obviously some understeer but the car was a great little handler and trust me i dont hang around on any roads!

Non RFT to come soon! Save me a few quid anyway.

The 3-series chassis should be far better than a FWD car, A3 or any similar car. The whole idea for having RWD is to get purity in the drive, rear wheels driving and front wheels doing what front wheels do best, 'steer' the car. Sorry to say BMW have messed up on recent cars, with RFTs. There is no excuse for a RWD car that doesn't feel right in a straight line. You don't have to get used to them, IMO, if you are anything of a decent driver, should be second nature and 'instantly' a better experience than a FWD car.

To be frank about this, BMW have got it wrong. They have compromised a brilliant road going chassis. Fit a decent non run-flat performance tyre and all the nonsense of feeling on ice (been there as well) correcting steering while driving straight (and in the bends) vanishes when the RFTs are gone. The rear end then does what it ought as well. There is no need for any BMW to tramline either, either wheel sizes are too big, too low (and/or stiff) a profile tyre, and/or worn suspension.

Personally I have not had any success with lowering RFT pressures, I'm of the other opinion and experience that a couple of extra psi will get you off the sidewalls and onto the crown of the tyre, with less tyre sensitivities. But I've been on 17" wheels where many others also find pressure increase lessens the weird RFT behaviour.

BTW, have no experience of the Pirelli P-Zero RFTs so can't comment on whether they are as good as the Michelin PS2 ZP or not.

HighlandPete

[misterS3]

I laugh at the ditch the run flat brigade. You do realise that the GTR is on run flats and it handles pretty well

You need to adjust your driving style. If you're serious about your driving get a lesson from someone like Colin Hoad at CATDT. You'll learn how to balance the car on the throttle and how it will turn in better because of it.

I would guess you're entering corners with a lot of weight on the front wheels. 335D has a lot of weight over the front wheels. You need to be accelerating or at least maintaining 'constant gas' throughout the corners. It will turn in sharper like that.

If you do the elk test while braking you will understeer, if you accelerate or apply the power (not excessively) you will turn sharper. I didnt believe it, till i tried it at Millbrook with CATDT.

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by ss134

The TTRS would annihalate a standard E92 on the road or track.............it is only 4 sec slower around the Nordschleife than an M3..........and it is packing less power.

of course!!!!.. I know that.....

I was talking about a normal TT chassis and suspension v/s e92 ....around bends and corners...how does the car behave etc....

guess, its like that autocar video review of the TTRS v/s R8 V10.....both cars tend to have the ability to take bends fast....its only when exiting the corners that the R8 leaves the TT....

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by zltm089

yeah, down to driver's feeling Helen. Are you saying that the TT will handle better i.e take bends and corners faster than an e92 with msport suspension? I don't think it will....We are talking about the handling now Helen, not the power delivery or acceleration....

in terms of handling...I think the e92 will match (or be better/ faster than) the TT or A3.....around bends....


but I haven't taken the e92 or the TT on track,

so i guess to have the answer, it will have to be on track, same weather conditions, same driver, and see how the test driver feels at taking corners with both cars....excluding the power factor i.e how fast it can exit corners etc....

I hereby respond to your challenge at UK10 and happy to prove you that the handling of an e92 can match a TT ;-)

PS: (only JOKING)

Don't want to be the idiot at UK10, so I'm not going against a TTRS driven by an experienced lady....:chara cter0264:

I'm referring to the TTS as it's similar power to the 335i, even though slightly down on power it is lighter with a shorter wheelbase and set up differently to a standard 2.0 litre TT or the TDi with the addition of stiffer suspension. Doesn't matter whether it's a track or real world driving or how the driver feels, it is the times at which point A to B can be reached, so yes obviously I was talking about handling lol.

M sport suspension is merely stiffer dampers and springs Kevin and the car sits slightly lower, the M name is purely a marketing point and is not related to a true M car like the M3.

You cannot overcome physical size, geometry or tortional rigidity within a chassis of a certain size and bulk and the two cars are therefore different. The addition of a LSD will and does make a beneficial difference to handling of the 335i but I still stand by what I said. They are different models of cars with different purposes 'in life' and set up accordingly, so in reality you are not comparing the same type of car at all, hence I felt the need to comment. The 335i does handle well for its size and weight, so you've no worries there.

I'm not going to UK10 so will have to be another time.............but won't be in mine as that really wouldn't be fair lol..............I'll happily go in your TTS though.

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by misterS3

I laugh at the ditch the run flat brigade. You do realise that the GTR is on run flats and it handles pretty well

You need to adjust your driving style. If you're serious about your driving get a lesson from someone like Colin Hoad at CATDT. You'll learn how to balance the car on the throttle and how it will turn in better because of it.

I would guess you're entering corners with a lot of weight on the front wheels.

hey come on!!!... don't get the GTR in this debate!!!....its from another planet!!!...

seriously, I do believe that the runflats do create a negative impact on the overall handling of the car!!!!.....I'm changing to non runflat next year, and I will be back next year to say....YES, IT WAS THE SHIT Runflats!....

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

I'm referring to the TTS as it's similar power to the 335i, even though slightly down on power it is lighter with a shorter wheelbase and set up differently to a standard 2.0 litre TT or the TDi with the addition of stiffer suspension. Doesn't matter whether it's a track or real world driving or how the driver feels, it is the times at which point A to B can be reached, so yes obviously I was talking about handling lol.

M sport suspension is merely stiffer dampers and springs Kevin and the car sits slightly lower, the M name is purely a marketing point and is not related to a true M car like the M3.

You cannot overcome physical size, geometry or tortional rigidity within a chassis of a certain size and bulk and the two cars are therefore different. The addition of a LSD will and does make a beneficial difference to handling of the 335i but I still stand by what I said. They are different models of cars with different purposes 'in life' and set up accordingly, so in reality you are not comparing the same type of car at all, hence I felt the need to comment. The 335i does handle well for its size and weight, so you've no worries there.

I'm not going to UK10 so will have to be another time.............but won't be in mine as that really wouldn't be fair lol..............I'll happily go in your TTS though.

lol, i know they are different cars Helen!!!...but i guess thats the fun in it... comparing oranges and apples!...

loads of "weird" comparisons on the net.....TTRS v/s R8 V10 , M3 v/s Veyron etc....its just for fun really... ;-)


I'll let u have a go in the TTS, but be warned, I'm a very good driver and I know I'll be ahead of you in my 335i on EACH corner/ bend! ;-)

[misterS3]

Originally Posted by zltm089

hey come on!!!... don't get the GTR in this debate!!!....its from another planet!!!...

seriously, I do believe that the runflats do create a negative impact on the overall handling of the car!!!!.....I'm changing to non runflat next year, and I will be back next year to say....YES, IT WAS THE SHIT Runflats!....

I'm just kicking the facts.

The GTR gets slagged off for understeering. But those people are entering corners too fast with the weight on the front wheels. (although i realise all road cars at designed to understeer for safety). I for one have more arse out moments than understeer moments because of my style of driving.

I remember getting a lesson from a young guy at Silverstone when i said i was struggling with the 350Z because it was oversteery compared to my S3 which was understeery. He then understeered one corner and oversteered through the next. He said it's the driver that causes these things to happen.

I think the OP needs some time to get used to the car. When i first got my 335D from S3 the car felt strange and i didn't have much confidence in it. Even taking bends on the m74 at 80 seemed scary which is stupid considering i used to drive down there well over 90 in an L reg Clio with bicycle tyres!!

To the OP - take some time and get to know the car.

EDIT - what i mean is that i don't think non-rft's will fix the issue the OP has -whether they are better on not on the 335D

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by zltm089

I'll let u have a go in the TTS, but be warned, I'm a very good driver and I know I'll be ahead of you in my 335i on EACH corner/ bend! ;-)

Yeah ok Kevin..............you're having a bad night lol.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by misterS3

I laugh at the ditch the run flat brigade.

You need to adjust your driving style... .

The OP posted the following.

The 335d feels loose and less planted, almost like the front wheels arent touching the ground all the time. I constantly need to adjust the steering wheel to keep it going in a straight line.

So I drive BMWs, (for over 30-years) and get in these RFT shod cars and have to adjust my driving style... because of the RFTs. I remove them and can drive my BMW like any previous model. Any which way, with no issues. I put that down to tyres, nothing else.

BTW, how do you adjust to "not going it a straight line on RFTs"?

HighlandPete

[misterS3]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

The OP posted the following.



So I drive BMWs, (for over 30-years) and get in these RFT shod cars and have to adjust my driving style... because of the RFTs. I remove them and can drive my BMW like any previous model. Any which way, with no issues. I put that down to tyres, nothing else.

BTW, how do you adjust to "not going it a straight line on RFTs"?

HighlandPete

Fair enough. You can laugh at me
I don't have your experience of RWD cars. And won't question you at all. (always wanted to use that emoticon)


But i honestly never had the issue of having to constantly readjust in a straight-line in my 335D E91. Try driving a 6 year old Merc E270 and then you know what constantly adjusting the steering wheel is. (non-rfts )

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by misterS3

But i honestly never had the issue of having to constantly readjust in a straight-line in my 335D E91. Try driving a 6 year old Merc E270 and then you know what constantly adjusting the steering wheel is. (non-rfts )

I just couldn't live with a car (my 330d) with such poor driving dynamics, it all came to a head when I drove my sister's Caravelle up to Inverness and back the day after doing the same trip in the 330d, the Caravelle was the better, more precise drive. I had to sort it.

HighlandPete

[AlanYoro35i]

I know what you mean, its like there is no grip when turning right? and it makes you scared to step on the pedal more?? thats what i felt like when i first change from a FWD to RWD , to me was the change in set up from FWD to RWD as the push is from the back not the front power ,pushing you from behind so the front wheels are only rolling and you wont feel direct as you did in your old car but give some time and build the confidence up XD

[grey man]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Personally I have not had any success with lowering RFT pressures, I'm of the other opinion and experience that a couple of extra psi will get you off the sidewalls and onto the crown of the tyre, with less tyre sensitivities. But I've been on 17" wheels where many others also find pressure increase lessens the weird RFT behaviour.

BTW, have no experience of the Pirelli P-Zero RFTs so can't comment on whether they are as good as the Michelin PS2 ZP or not.

HighlandPete

I would agree with HighlandPete. I am on 17" runflats (was B'stone, now Michelin) - and I have also found that higher pressure is better.

Incidentally, FPO, I must be near you as work in Tewkesbury.

[Em135eye]

The ride on 17" RFTs irritated me so much, I changed them all when only one needed replacing. 17" non RFTs CSC3s are brilliant and much cheaper too.

[FPO]

OK people im gonna try 2.3 bar on fronts and 2.5 bar on rears today and see how I get on.
If this doesnt work, what bar would people recommend if I was to increase the pressures on the tyres? (Pete any idea?)

Obviously it would not make sense to buy 4 new non rft tyres when the ones I have are only 1000 miles old. Especially as they are 19'' 313's, the cost would be astronomical! I do 36,000 miles year so it won't be long before a change is needed anyway.