[jon@themshop]

Originally Posted by jmramos44

IDK what was just said.... but it sounds like jon is excepting of this product...
would be safe to say that we should aswell.

Thx

(Shiv? any thoughts?)

As some of us know... direct injection has the fuel injector placed on top of the combustion chamber and operates at 200BAR. Fuel is evaporated and atomized in the combustion chamber, which provides a "cooling effect" on combustion. A cooler combustion chamber allows an increase in air density, which allows for more available oxygen. In addition, cooler combustion allows for an increase in compression ratio which equates to improve efficiency and engine power.

By injecting the fuel directly into the combustion chamber, there is less possibility for fuel to condense or accumulate on the manifold walls or the back of the intake valve. This results in less fuel needed to achieve the desired A/F ratio. Remember the injector in the manifold on other engines will spray fuel onto the valve then into the chamber.

The increased injection pressure causes the fuel droplet size to be reduced. This allows for improved atomization and therefore improved mixture formation.

[IMJUSS2NASTY]

The Procede Has Been Raced Proven. Check Out The Torture Test It Took On That 12 Hour Run At An Average Speed Of 85-90 Mph. Because Of Shiv Credentials I Am Not Even Considering The Tt. Procede All The Way Baby. For You People With The Tt, Congrats Man, But You Can't Say You Know Exactly What The Tt Is Doing To Your Car And What Do You Think Will Happen If You Were To Drive Your 335i (with Tt) Hard For About 12 Hours? How Do You Think It Will Hold Up? There Has Already Been Alot Of Issues With This Car And I Am One Of The Unfortunate Ones That Are Experiencing This Issue. I Would Definitely Not Install A Product Into My Car Without Getting A Good Understanding Of What Its Doing To My Car. No More Chances Will Be Taken With My Car, Visits To The Dealership Is Not Fun!!!!!

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

I'm still weary about this product since a few people who installed them and hit the dyno said that they were running pretty lean. I still don't understand how this thing compensates for the extra fuel that you need without any fuel tables or anything, and with the lack of info that is out there I don't know how you could just install it and hope that you will be ok. I would at least install a wideband on my car and see what was going on with the A/F's.

The car has a wideband stock and adjusts the AF automatically. You can search and get a lot more info, the TT has been discussed in good detail.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by IMJUSS2NASTY

The Procede Has Been Raced Proven. Check Out The Torture Test It Took On That 12 Hour Run At An Average Speed Of 85-90 Mph. Because Of Shiv Credentials I Am Not Even Considering The Tt. Procede All The Way Baby. For You People With The Tt, Congrats Man, But You Can't Say You Know Exactly What The Tt Is Doing To Your Car And What Do You Think Will Happen If You Were To Drive Your 335i (with Tt) Hard For About 12 Hours? How Do You Think It Will Hold Up? There Has Already Been Alot Of Issues With This Car And I Am One Of The Unfortunate Ones That Are Experiencing This Issue. I Would Definitely Not Install A Product Into My Car Without Getting A Good Understanding Of What Its Doing To My Car. No More Chances Will Be Taken With My Car, Visits To The Dealership Is Not Fun!!!!!

Considering The Tt Offers A Similar Af Ratio At Above 5000 Rpm It's Safe To Say It Would Behaive With Similar Reliability In A 12hr Road Race.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

The car has a wideband stock and adjusts the AF automatically. You can search and get a lot more info, the TT has been discussed in good detail.

Yes, it self-adjusts to what are now inappropriate AFR targets.

[DIRKD]

^We know how well your product performs (because of your million threads on it). I'm wondering if anyone else finds it annoying that you constantly invade TT threads and bash it.

[jon@themshop]

More pics of the Eurobahn Turbo Tuner.

[j|rz44]

Originally Posted by IMJUSS2NASTY

The Procede Has Been Raced Proven. Check Out The Torture Test It Took On That 12 Hour Run At An Average Speed Of 85-90 Mph. Because Of Shiv Credentials I Am Not Even Considering The Tt. Procede All The Way Baby. For You People With The Tt, Congrats Man, But You Can't Say You Know Exactly What The Tt Is Doing To Your Car And What Do You Think Will Happen If You Were To Drive Your 335i (with Tt) Hard For About 12 Hours? How Do You Think It Will Hold Up? There Has Already Been Alot Of Issues With This Car And I Am One Of The Unfortunate Ones That Are Experiencing This Issue. I Would Definitely Not Install A Product Into My Car Without Getting A Good Understanding Of What Its Doing To My Car. No More Chances Will Be Taken With My Car, Visits To The Dealership Is Not Fun!!!!!

hehehe... you love that shift key
i used to type like that...

[j|rz44]

Originally Posted by DIRKD

^We know how well your product performs (because of your million threads on it). I'm wondering if anyone else finds it annoying that you constantly invade TT threads and bash it.

I asked him here...
wanted to hear his thoughts as to jon@"reputable"Mshops input...
thats all...
no bashing! just knowledge

[BoostedBMW]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

The car has a wideband stock and adjusts the AF automatically. You can search and get a lot more info, the TT has been discussed in good detail.

Yes, but what good is that if you aren't viewing it? I guess you guys are just assuming that the stock ECU will adjust accordingly to whatever boost you throw at it? If this is the case then screw the TT, just get an electronic boost controller and let the ECU compensate for it. Also, if the stock ECU is compensating for the higher boost and ajusting the A/F's automatically then wouldn't that be traceable? I would think that the ECU would log A/F's and boost pressure if you have to let it see it to compensate for them. Just throwing out an idea here, i'm sure you guys know more then me about the TT.

[luckyguyinla]

Originally Posted by radgator1

hey where do u dyno your car at?
please give me that place address thanks.
the spec that u have it on the pic. just muffer? or chip ? or both?

[e.n335]

The TT A/F theory doesn't work for me at all when you fake the ECU to see lower boost it will adjust A/F to the lower numbers it sees, not to the real boost. It will adjust, but to the wrong baseline. How should this work different ?

Cheers
Eugen

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

Yes, but what good is that if you aren't viewing it? I guess you guys are just assuming that the stock ECU will adjust accordingly to whatever boost you throw at it? If this is the case then screw the TT, just get an electronic boost controller and let the ECU compensate for it. Also, if the stock ECU is compensating for the higher boost and ajusting the A/F's automatically then wouldn't that be traceable? I would think that the ECU would log A/F's and boost pressure if you have to let it see it to compensate for them. Just throwing out an idea here, i'm sure you guys know more then me about the TT.

The factory wideband system sniffs out the actual AFR and adjusts it to hit stock targets, if you add more air, it automatically adds more fuel. The thing that most people dont like, is that it stays at stock AFR's... The PROcede uses richer than stock AFR's, which shiv's says is neccessary to keep the engine cool. Keep in mind, its a Ratio... so the more air you add, the car WILL add more fuel, not like upping the boost on a non closeloop system... which will cause leaner than stock AFR's.

The TT hides the fact that boost is above stock levels, the ECU sees stock boost. The TT also tweaks the IAT sensor to trick the ECU into adjusting timing, and it does all this according to load. It also has built in protection circuitry to cut back boost if it gets too hot, and also to avoid boost spikes. (this is all info taken from the other threads)

Now if this is safe or not is subjective... many people think its fine at these power levels, and is proven by the fact that there is no detonation or pinging, and engine temps remain unchanged. Other's think that this device is completely unsafe...

I am offering completely unbaised info towards both products. Personally, since my car is a lease, and currently has frequent trips to the dealer, I have the TT... If I owned my car, and I didnt need to take it in often, I would definatly have the PROcede.

[FotiosF90M5]

nice job guys, now I have powerhungryicitus,I have multiple symptoms and might have to get the proceed.thanks a lot.Ill give the TT a try. baby steps.I still think the tt is a great bargain, and very convenient.I also dont plan on doing any 12hr high speed tests either.

[BoostedBMW]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

The factory wideband system sniffs out the actual AFR and adjusts it to hit stock targets, if you add more air, it automatically adds more fuel. The thing that most people dont like, is that it stays at stock AFR's... The PROcede uses richer than stock AFR's, which shiv's says is neccessary to keep the engine cool. Keep in mind, its a Ratio... so the more air you add, the car WILL add more fuel, not like upping the boost on a non closeloop system... which will cause leaner than stock AFR's.

The TT hides the fact that boost is above stock levels, the ECU sees stock boost. The TT also tweaks the IAT sensor to trick the ECU into adjusting timing, and it does all this according to load. It also has built in protection circuitry to cut back boost if it gets too hot, and also to avoid boost spikes. (this is all info taken from the other threads)

Now if this is safe or not is subjective... many people think its fine at these power levels, and is proven by the fact that there is no detonation or pinging, and engine temps remain unchanged. Other's think that this device is completely unsafe...

I am offering completely unbaised info towards both products. Personally, since my car is a lease, and currently has frequent trips to the dealer, I have the TT... If I owned my car, and I didnt need to take it in often, I would definatly have the PROcede.

Thanks for the info. So if it is going by the o2 sensor to adjust the A/F's then you should be able to add an EBC and have the stock ecu take care of the rest, which is kind of scary. I don't like the idea of relying so much on an o2 sensor also. I just had one go south on my s2k, if that happens in this car where you don't have actual fuel and timing tables for the ecu to read (or manipulate through sensors) with the higher boost levels from the TT then you could be up the creek without a paddle. Someone will probably point out here that a stock 335 uses a wideband in the same way, and yes it is there to adjust A/F's a certain percentage based on what it sniffs, but this is not mandatory if you have a tune for the ecu to operate by. I'm just saying that relying on the o2 sensor may not be the smartest move in the world if that's the only thing that is standing between stock boost/fuel and higher boost without extra fuel.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

Thanks for the info. So if it is going by the o2 sensor to adjust the A/F's then you should be able to add an EBC and have the stock ecu take care of the rest, which is kind of scary. I don't like the idea of relying so much on an o2 sensor also. I just had one go south on my s2k, if that happens in this car where you don't have actual fuel and timing tables for the ecu to read (or manipulate through sensors) with the higher boost levels from the TT then you could be up the creek without a paddle. Someone will probably point out here that a stock 335 uses a wideband in the same way, and yes it is there to adjust A/F's a certain percentage based on what it sniffs, but this is not mandatory if you have a tune for the ecu to operate by. I'm just saying that relying on the o2 sensor may not be the smartest move in the world if that's the only thing that is standing between stock boost/fuel and higher boost without extra fuel.

I dont know about you, but if I got a check engine light, I would pop off the TT immediatly...

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes, it self-adjusts to what are now inappropriate AFR targets.

In your opinion, unless you have some EGT, IAT, or compressor map data you care to share.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by BoostedBMW

Yes, but what good is that if you aren't viewing it? I guess you guys are just assuming that the stock ECU will adjust accordingly to whatever boost you throw at it? If this is the case then screw the TT, just get an electronic boost controller and let the ECU compensate for it. Also, if the stock ECU is compensating for the higher boost and ajusting the A/F's automatically then wouldn't that be traceable? I would think that the ECU would log A/F's and boost pressure if you have to let it see it to compensate for them. Just throwing out an idea here, i'm sure you guys know more then me about the TT.

The ECM will fight a piggy back boost controller unless you also have a map clamp. The two in combination are a workable solution, but with the TT or PROcede (programmed map clamps), you get the same effect.

From the ECU's point of view the car is still making factory boost, its just taking a lot more fuel to hit the target AF ratio (for some unknown reason). I'm pretty convinced there is a trail in the ECU for the PROcede or TT for someone who knows what they are looking at, but thats another thread all together.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by eugen.niederreiter

The TT A/F theory doesn't work for me at all when you fake the ECU to see lower boost it will adjust A/F to the lower numbers it sees, not to the real boost. It will adjust, but to the wrong baseline. How should this work different ?

Cheers
Eugen

You have a basic misunderstanding. Also I should note the TT and PROCede are almost identical in how they add more fuel. The difference is the PROCede also clamps the O2 sensor signals slightly to trick the ECU in to putting in a little extra fuel.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

You have a basic misunderstanding. Also I should note the TT and PROCede are almost identical in how they add more fuel. The difference is the PROCede also clamps the O2 sensor signals slightly to trick the ECU in to putting in a little extra fuel.

Wrong.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Wrong.

[IMJUSS2NASTY]

Im Sure The Tt Works Great, However, Due To The Time And Effort Shiv Has Put Into His Product And Most Important The Time He Spent Explaining How The Product Works. He Earned Great Credentials. I Feel Very Safe Purchasing And Installing The Procede. Hopefully, I Can Get Mine Done This Weekend!!!!!